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conversion of agraharam

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vanakkam,im karthicksrinivasan reentering tamil brahmins.com after long time with new topic.conversion of the agraharam taking place in most of areas . where ever the ghopoojas takes place that place becoming place of eating cow flesh. for example therizhandur { kambars birth place } one of the divyadesam in 108 divyadesams,where only few of TBs remaining and they are pattacharis of varadaraja swamy temple. In sannathi street itself only few of them are present. to prevent this my request for TBs is dont sell properties who and all belongs to that place. we must follow our tradition and should not miss our agriculture which is the first occupation for we indian hindus . so dont sell assets in villages and dont come to cities and dont miss the good health and nice environment.
 
Dear Karthiksrinivasan,
You are correct. But whether is it practicable? My parents were living in the nearby village from Kumbakonam. We had cultivable lands also. But I could not get a job within tamilnadu and I had to come out of of our own land and I am working in a north indian city. My brother, a banker is also working in a different place. My parents are now very old by age and they could not take care of themselves. For any sudden call, both of us could not reach them in time. Under the circumstances, what would be the right solultion? We could not leave the leave the house and other properties unattended and move our parents to our place. Within a week all your properties would be taken over by non-brahmins and the present govt. is pro-non-brahmin, we could not win a fight with them. The best option to dispose all the properties and leave the place for good. Pl think it over and suggest me any other alternative.
 
.. The best option to dispose all the properties and leave the place for good. Pl think it over and suggest me any other alternative.

raagavan,

i do not think it is even an 'option', as option impllies choices to me.

there is no choice. our community, since independence, has been in a state of constant flux and emigration from those villages of our forefathers - to cities like chennai, then further beyond to bangalore, hyderabad, and bombay delhi.

today we cross the oceans, without thinking twice, and perhaps eagerly. economic opportunities, always wins the day. thinking through, that was the same reason, why our ancestors moved to these villages, probably due to patronage of the local raja or jamindar.

there is no need to shed tears. those that replace us in these agraharams, will bring their traditions. it does not mean that the bad is replacing the good. let us not shed tears for a memory past. there is no point in it anyway.
 
Kunjappu

It is timely and BOLD. The members and readers should reiterate the stand and heed to the request and consolidate. An acceptable agreement should be found between the community sellers and buyers. And a slow and subtle acquisitions of lost grounds should take place progressively, like they have in Noorani, Palakkad. I know of the strength of community unity years before at Varahur, near Thiruvaiyaru. I wish and pray all members made to subscribe to this. A planned and proud approach to the matter will be highly rewarding.
 
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Shri BV Raghavan

Your point is right to some extent. The scenario has changed and you need ground to fight from. You left the place because you could not mend it. But I left the place in Thanjavur because I had nothing to mend. The bane of us, Tamil Brahmins, has always been to diametrically oppose our blood brothers, much less our relatives and we had given the ground to outsiders to spite our kins. It may be different in Delhi, but you are not wanted anywhere else not because you are a brahmin, but because you are a South Indian. Do not go by lip sympathies expressed by even Manmohan Singh or Sonia Gandhi. Please ponder over and think of your community's precarious position.
 
Benami Brahmins

The problem is that Brahmins do not want to leave any proud legacy to their children. Instead they immigrate and emigrate to keep their lousy jobs. I use to advise the migrants at Mylapore to sell or let their properties only to Brahmins. The non Brahmins engaged benami Brahmins to buy property and later to transfer it to their convenience.

Brahmins tenants were preferred even by non Brahmin land lords in Mylapore even a decade back. Now Brahmins are being forced out. The Christians have established themselves in Santhome area and the Muslims in Zam Bazaar by way of good community discipline. Brahmin land lords simly advertise in Mylapore Times and just like that transfer property for the first good offer! Our community should establish certain value system in this regard and should try to enforce it.
 
In the land of all-men-are-created-equal, restrictive covenants that barred sale or renting of property to pesky Negros and other such "undesirables" was quite common. Even the Supreme court in its limitless wisdom held that such are private matters and therefore valid. It is the racial exclusivity practiced by a country club in LA that we have to thank for the delightful quip of Groucho Marx, "I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members."

It took the laws enacted during the civil rights movement of the 1960s to make these race based exclusivity illegal. Yet, these practices still continue in a myriad of ways through subtle forms of segregation.

It is interesting to see the many ways in which racism and casteism are similar.

Cheers!
 
raagavan,

i do not think it is even an 'option', as option impllies choices to me.

there is no choice. our community, since independence, has been in a state of constant flux and emigration from those villages of our forefathers - to cities like chennai, then further beyond to bangalore, hyderabad, and bombay delhi.

today we cross the oceans, without thinking twice, and perhaps eagerly. economic opportunities, always wins the day. thinking through, that was the same reason, why our ancestors moved to these villages, probably due to patronage of the local raja or jamindar.

there is no need to shed tears. those that replace us in these agraharams, will bring their traditions. it does not mean that the bad is replacing the good. let us not shed tears for a memory past. there is no point in it anyway.

Absolutely right Sri Kunjuppu ji,

Many of we Brahmins are compromising our self to suite the corporate culture, many of us are taking maximum efforts to loose our identity and carry cultural values to be in par with changing trends and many of us wants to get rid of traditional practices and belief systems, only to convince and satisfy our self that we are much educated and advanced to fit well within Global social setups...

Obviously in this bargain, to attain global social mind frame and improving quality of life, we are migrating to the extent possible.

In this scenario who has the time to think, sentiments to feel and the need to apply logic & strategy to revert to agraharam? Perhaps, as you said there is no point to shed tears for past memories..."Let the Past Bury the Dead"....
 
...........In the land of all-men-are-created-equal,
.......
I do not see that all are being created as equals... in fact, there is more unequality in creation than in anything else...

This 'all-men-are-created-equal' is probably a new term coined for serving a particular point of view... nothing more, nothing less..
 
I do not see that all are being created as equals... in fact, there is more unequality in creation than in anything else...

This 'all-men-are-created-equal' is probably a new term coined for serving a particular point of view... nothing more, nothing less..
all human beings are created equal is scientifically correct,becoz every man and woman,go thru the same process of creating a human being.
owing to 'karma' namely sanchitha,agamnya,prarabhdha,the life one enjoys or suffers reflects for people to surmise as per their perception of good or bad.
for example,sanyasis,are renunciates,yet they need to do basic functions of survival,namely eating,sleeping,excretion.they need to have a place to stay,clothes to wear,food to eat.but it is so minimal in comparison to a grihastha,it appears almost to nothing.
but the inherent nature of things is that,the common binding factor is saguna brahman or physical aspects of god,for us to perceive as an object.
trasaranu budhi is a particle mind,there is no object here,but a formless cloud of patterns from karmic obligation,mostly sound waves.
but on a human dissection,we have four forms of blood groups.
we have four forms of color of skin.
four forms of thinking namely brahmana,kshathria,vaishya,shudra.
so four types of human personality exists and this four types exists in every sub-stratum,of life origin,which ultimately merges into one,which is the source for one and all.
and here only,all become equal.on a physical earth plane,four divisions exists. or unequality as sapthaJIHVA says is correct,imho.
 
Dear Friends,
It is an apt debate. We belong to various cities - Chennai, Delhi, Hyderabad, Bangalore, Toronto, New York and every conceivable part of the World - but we do not belong to the Cauvery delta for various political and non political reasons. I can certainly say a few of those who live outside would like to come back to Tamilnadu and nearabouts provided, at least they get the security to live. May be it is time that we become a political voice and make a demand to the Tamilnadu Government to be willing to allot plots and land to the erstwhile village people. Of course, the travel links have improved, even health facilities have improved a great deal. What the elders would need is the physical security and emotional seurity. Emotional security would come with the daily darshan of the temples visited by our parents and grand parents for all their life. The problem is that the earlier village houses would not suit today's life style with huge court yards (mutram, rendam kattu etc.) which are convenient for thefts. There are some villages in Tirunelveli district like Lavanasamudram, near Alwarakurichi I am told where even now Brahmins go and stay for a few days for fulfilment of Kuladeivam vows and people in these villages offer food, snacks, coffee etc. for visiting people of course on payment. Some families make a living on this. In this way, some community arrangments could be thus strengthened and we may try to resettle in our forefathers' villages. We need to try to stick to our roots. It is a pity we may belong to the whole universe but not to our villages.
Atmavat Sarva Bhoothaney Yaha Pasyati Saha Pasyati - We are true to this
 
...........
today we cross the oceans, without thinking twice, and perhaps eagerly. economic opportunities, always wins the day. thinking through, that was the same reason, why our ancestors moved to these villages, probably due to patronage of the local raja or jamindar.

.......
You are portraying the scenario as it fits the saying - 'soru kanda idame sorgam'... Please correct me if I have wrongly inferred.

One of the many reasons, and more important, for our ancestors to migrate might have been the extent of patronage of their customs and practices that their present king allowed... Not merely an economic consideration...

Post independence, it is indeed a fact that brahmins migrated in search of better opportunities as they were deprived of the local patronage... In certain cases, as in TN, they were in fact, oppressed... Sensing a bleak future, they migrated to establish themselves...

The sad part is that, since then, we have never looked back...

So I would say that all is not nostalgia of a long cherished memory, but rather the lost feeling of not continuing our karma which probably pricks the conscience of some...
 
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all human beings are created equal is scientifically correct,becoz every man and woman,go thru the same process of creating a human being.
..........
So then sir, would it mean that the process of creation is same/similar, but not the result itself...??
 
So then sir, would it mean that the process of creation is same/similar, but not the result itself...??

knowing you as much as i do from your posts here sapthajihava ,i will restrict creation to 'human beings' and the result is also the same,namely,death of body,as the athma is anaadi & anthamum illai.

kunjuppu,sorry boss,my tamglish pops up now and then,plz grin it and bear it.
 
I do not see that all are being created as equals... in fact, there is more unequality in creation than in anything else...


Yes Saptha, you are of course correct.

In reality, not all are created equal. There is much diversity among births -- social, economic, biological etc. It is this diversity that sustains life on earth with the successful able to survive and procreate. The process of random mutation and natural selection is an unstoppable force.

But the words of equality Thomas Jefferson wrote, in the opening sentence of the declaration of independence from Great Briton, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,..." is about how we treat each other. Nobody has the right to rule over another simply based on birth-right. He goes on to say that all humans are endowed, "...with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." It is in this sense all are equal and must be treated as such.

Cheers!
 
.....So I would say that all is not nostalgia of a long cherished memory, but rather the lost feeling of not continuing our karma which probably pricks the conscience of some... but perhaps not yours sir...

i appreciate the first part of your sentence here. it is a different and acceptable view of viewing the same scenario.

i have never claimed that i alone have access to the truth. to me, what i say, is a blend of personal experience and belief.

however, in the past few occassions, you have included a personal jibe, which i think is not only uncivilized from any viewpoint, but uncalled for in a respectable forum like this.

i wish you would refrain from personal attacks inspite of your obvious dislike to me personally. not only does it reflect dimly on you, but takes you down quite a few notches down, from your otherwise erudite and wise observations.
 
...........
however, in the past few occassions, you have included a personal jibe, which i think is not only uncivilized from any viewpoint, but uncalled for in a respectable forum like this.

i wish you would refrain from personal attacks inspite of your obvious dislike to me personally. not only does it reflect dimly on you, but takes you down quite a few notches down............
I suppose that my ego got the better of me... My sincere apologies for having given such a harsh impression on you.

Reg. the other part, I bear no personal dislike towards anybody in this forum... and if I were to reflect a little further, I would say that there is no personal dislike to their thoughts either. But then, we all do have a role, just as we have a name...

Regards,
 
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we all have a role - vesham of brahmana kshathria vaishya shudra

we have a name - veshamam of ego.

kunjuppu & sapthajihva,both of you are erudite with wealth of knowledge.snipes here and there,adds excitement,i can speak for myself,i am a unabashed fan of, both of you,more importantly this website.sahana bhavatu.......
 
All are different, but not unequals. We have diverse backgrounds, still we can be equals.

Inequality, while used to discriminate various individuals, must not be encouraged. If used in the sense of differing backgrounds, abilities, potential and intelligence and wealth, it's a reality which nobody can deny.
 
...............

He goes on to say that all humans are endowed, "...with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." It is in this sense all are equal and must be treated as such.
Basic rights notwithstanding, not all humans practice similar habits and life style... it is rather guided by individual driving force, which is related to the set of beliefs that one adheres to...

So while an agraharam caters to the particular life style of a set of people, it does not really mean ostracizing others based on superiority, albeit during the course of time such instances could have cropped up; but then that could happen anywhere in any kind of setup!!!

The notion of racism does not apply here unless one wants to see it that way...

Regards,
 
All are different, but not unequals. We have diverse backgrounds, still we can be equals.

Inequality, while used to discriminate various individuals, must not be encouraged. If used in the sense of differing backgrounds, abilities, potential and intelligence and wealth, it's a reality which nobody can deny.

pannvalan

all are different only owing to inherent nature of their being from past life births of various species,as per our religion.

discrimination also exists,but shud not be practices as our ancestors did.if someone is unhygenic,we educate them about hygeine.owing to bad practice of oral utterances,one is mis-understood.actions also can be mis-understood too.writings too can be mis-understood.

as bhagavan sathya sai baba says,its all about how one wants to understands the nature of reality.when inculcated with compassion love non - violence,the outcome is peace.but such personalities exist once in a blue moon.

so brahmanas were trained for this purpose in society or clearly edifying do's and dont's.

as time changes,we shud adapt and adopt,as we are doing now.

agraharam is nothing but community living.with education we have changed.by educating people,and taking care of them lovingly,we cater to our higher self.indians live the dream,imo.

same brahmanical ways today are being expressed scientifically,as science.we all evolve sir,and we are always in that process.indians by nature are kind and soft hearted people,but this is in no way,a sign of weakness,as many perceive us to be worldover.in fact its our strength.
 
Sri Dharampal in his book "Beautiful flower", produced some docs belong to the 18th century, which included some of the report on what kind of activity was going on in Agraharams.

Agrahram is originally for a collection of people with particular life style and activities. There were vedic schools, teaching (main profession) and quite in manners and poor. There were many documents reproduced in the same book (not imaginary) which portrays the life in agraharam as recent as in 18th century. There was an instance, whole community abandoned agraharam due to the tyranny of a muslim ruler, and migrated to some other place. (later they returned and the Jamindar had written what type of maniyams were given to the brahmins to continue their vedic learning and koil works which was just sufficient to support their needs. There was not many luxurious things to go after. When they were quite tight to mind their day to day living, where is the time to dominate others. But when the basic culture changed, when they set about finding wealth to satisfy ஆடம்பர வாழ்க்கை, the total setup is changed. Few people stole the identity of entire brahmins. The concept of agraharam, gone with the thrust for different life style. So, now, bringing back the agraharam with "brahmins" will never occur, and due to the brashness, even if such agraharams are established, it will be worse than olden days சேரி.

Few months back, i passed through an agraharam in a village (after Kambarasam pettai trichy). There were old Houses with very small width and enormous length, typical தீப்பெட்டி வீடுகள். After the entrance there was only darkness. And in one of the thinnais few people were leisurely chatting in the afternoon. With a very ordinary வேஷ்டியும் சாதரண சட்டையும். A simple income and satisfied mind is the richest.

Its all in the mind.

In olden days, எளிமையும் உண்மையும் அறிவும் மற்றவர்களுக்கு தீங்கு நினைக்காமல் இருப்பதும் ப்ராமணர்களின் குண நலமாக கருதப்பட்டது. அதனிலிருந்து, பிரழ்ந்தவர்கள், இன்னும் அந்த identityஐ பிடித்து கொண்டிருப்பதுதான் irony.

We are hearing too many times, that the world has changed, the time is changed, we are in 25th century, etc etc..... For that Kavi kannadasan wrote,

வந்த நாள் முதல் இந்த நாள் வரை
வானம் மாறவில்லை - வான்
மதியும் மீனும் கடல் காற்றும்
மலரும் மண்ணும் கொடியும் சோலையும்
நதியும் மாறவில்லை!
மனிதன் மாறிவிட்டான்
மரத்தில் ஏறிவிட்டான்!


Regards
 
We use a small yard sticks of selected and vocal few to judge the many humbles. That's how we are taught to think and practice. (sampling).....
 
I too wonder, how come in almost all the villages have agraharams and situated at strategic places.

Regards
 
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