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Singing other faith songs by Carnatic musicians

Actually what is.actually so wrong?
Many Non Hindu singers too sing Hindu songs and we simply love it..
If everything becomes Haraam we become too closed minded.

Haraam adha Haraam idham
Haraamat haraam udhacyate
Haraamasya Haraam adhaya
HaraamevAvashisyate.

( This is Haraam..That is Haraam
Haraam arised from Haraam
If Haraam is taken from Haraam
Verily only Haraam remains)
 
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Music is beyond religion.Lyrics can praise any religion.What matters is how much the carnatic singers get paid for singing. They are a poor lot.Money with any lyrics is welcome

for them
 
To my understanding, objection was raised when the artists plagiarised Thyagaraja kritis by singing songs with replacing the word Rama with Jesus and sometimes only changing the Raga. By any standard, that would be plagiarising.
Today I heard a song, glorifying Christianity.... BGM plagiarised from Indian National Anthem.
All powerful Vatican in action... Sure, we have an option of burying our heads in the sand....
 
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To my understanding, objection was raised when the artists plagiarised Thyagaraja kritis by singing songs with replacing the word Rama with Jesus and sometimes only changing the Raga. By any standard, that would be plagiarising.
Today I heard a song, glorifying Christianity.... BGM plagiarised from Indian National Anthem.
All powerful Vatican in action... Sure, we have an option of burying our heads in the sand....


Does this not amount to tampering of Thyagaraja Krits....??
 
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Vanakkam,

I do not see anything wrong in this. If the singer is Hindu and wants to sing songs of other faith, that too in carnatic way, it is up to the singer. Hinduism, I think never was fundamentalistic in approach. And I never heard also restrictions or reprimands by any carnatic master to sing only Hindu compositions.

On the other hand, lots of singers belonging to other faith, for e.g. Yesudas ji, do sing Carnatic songs, in his honey-like voice. It should be something welcomed.

But I do agree, kritis should not be plagiarized or altered to suit the theme of other faiths. They should come with their own compositions.
 
Vanakkam,

I do not see anything wrong in this. If the singer is Hindu and wants to sing songs of other faith, that too in carnatic way, it is up to the singer. Hinduism, I think never was fundamentalistic in approach. And I never heard also restrictions or reprimands by any carnatic master to sing only Hindu compositions.

On the other hand, lots of singers belonging to other faith, for e.g. Yesudas ji, do sing Carnatic songs, in his honey-like voice. It should be something welcomed.

But I do agree, kritis should not be plagiarized or altered to suit the theme of other faiths. They should come with their own compositions.

Sure. Yesudas sang many songs in glory of Christianity. Yesudas is my most favourite singer. He also sang great many carnatic songs. Since he sang songs in glory of Hindu Gods, Church ex-communicated him. Would you say that was a fundamentalist approach by the Church?

When a song starts " Ksheera sagara sayanaa'.... i would imagine a song in glory of Lord Vishnu as meant by Thyagaraja.... I don't expect to hear Rama's name replaced by Yesu in that song... Well, I don't know about others, but, I would call that as fraudulent plagiarism by the Church, since Church is paying for that.
 
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L R Easwari, the popular Singer, a Christian, is famous for songs on Amman. To counter this, Sasirekha, another singer, a Hindu, was engaged to sing Christian songs.

But, suddenly, popular Carnatic vocalists, are engaged to glorify Christian faith. The reason is not known.
 
I can call this as inculturation , if the learned viewers agree.This phenomena is deeply penetrating nowadays. Why not we take this sort of singing by Carnatic vidwans as a sort of inculturation? Churches uses these inculturation with an aim to adopt the well established Hindu cultural practices to comfort, corrupt and change the minds of hindu masses.it is easy for the churches through these Hindu practises to change the minds of people, who are not religious deeply.To your shock , Girivalam has been started by christians.on the hillock of Acharapakkam near Melmaruvathur, because this town is famous for Adhi parasakthi temple. .Velankanni matha festivals are with regular padhayatras that too barefooted, whereas shoes are allowed in the Christian way of worship.In Chennai Santhome area, one can see posters calling Mary as Thirumayilai Annai, whereas Thirumayilai Annai is our Karpagambal of Kapaleeswarar of Mylopore. Of late several churches have started installing dwajasthamvams in their premises. What it shows? Already North East and His are under their faith. 50% of Kerala are with them . Karnataka Andhra and Tamil Nadu is their next aim .Is it not a cultural theft rather religious theft?No wonder Sabarimalai turns as StThomas Mount in future. My intention is not to offend anyone personally ; all are great singers . I admire them . Further
, I am not for comfronting any faith or religious group. I am just talking about the route only .Sorry if I had hurt anyone .
 
I can call this as inculturation , if the learned viewers agree.This phenomena is deeply penetrating nowadays. Why not we take this sort of singing by Carnatic vidwans as a sort of inculturation? Churches uses these inculturation with an aim to adopt the well established Hindu cultural practices to comfort, corrupt and change the minds of hindu masses.it is easy for the churches through these Hindu practises to change the minds of people, who are not religious deeply.To your shock , Girivalam has been started by christians.on the hillock of Acharapakkam near Melmaruvathur, because this town is famous for Adhi parasakthi temple. .Velankanni matha festivals are with regular padhayatras that too barefooted, whereas shoes are allowed in the Christian way of worship.In Chennai Santhome area, one can see posters calling Mary as Thirumayilai Annai, whereas Thirumayilai Annai is our Karpagambal of Kapaleeswarar of Mylopore. Of late several churches have started installing dwajasthamvams in their premises. What it shows? Already North East and His are under their faith. 50% of Kerala are with them . Karnataka Andhra and Tamil Nadu is their next aim .Is it not a cultural theft rather religious theft?No wonder Sabarimalai turns as StThomas Mount in future. My intention is not to offend anyone personally ; all are great singers . I admire them . Further
, I am not for comfronting any faith or religious group. I am just talking about the route only .Sorry if I had hurt anyone .

No problems...I understand what you mean..

Just for some humor...see this Video.

Music Is Haraam..everybody knows..It penetrates your body from your head to your toes!LOL

[video=youtube_share;QkweGrNcQsw]https://youtu.be/QkweGrNcQsw[/video]
 
I can call this as inculturation , if the learned viewers agree.This phenomena is deeply penetrating nowadays. Why not we take this sort of singing by Carnatic vidwans as a sort of inculturation? Churches uses these inculturation with an aim to adopt the well established Hindu cultural practices to comfort, corrupt and change the minds of hindu masses.it is easy for the churches through these Hindu practises to change the minds of people, who are not religious deeply.To your shock , Girivalam has been started by christians.on the hillock of Acharapakkam near Melmaruvathur, because this town is famous for Adhi parasakthi temple. .Velankanni matha festivals are with regular padhayatras that too barefooted, whereas shoes are allowed in the Christian way of worship.In Chennai Santhome area, one can see posters calling Mary as Thirumayilai Annai, whereas Thirumayilai Annai is our Karpagambal of Kapaleeswarar of Mylopore. Of late several churches have started installing dwajasthamvams in their premises. What it shows? Already North East and His are under their faith. 50% of Kerala are with them . Karnataka Andhra and Tamil Nadu is their next aim .Is it not a cultural theft rather religious theft?No wonder Sabarimalai turns as StThomas Mount in future. My intention is not to offend anyone personally ; all are great singers . I admire them . Further
, I am not for comfronting any faith or religious group. I am just talking about the route only .Sorry if I had hurt anyone .

You are right..

They are being used as tools..

Please go through this article...

Can Carnatic musicians sing Christian songs set to Carnatic music?

Carnatic music has its own tradition and goals confined to Hinduism.

Carnatic music should not be the carrier of those Gods. Carnatic Ragas are carriers of specific deities, particularly Vedic deities


A huge furore is being witnessed now in the social media and among ardent followers of Carnatic music over reports of popular Carnatic singers singing songs on Christ set to Carnatic music. The reactions have been varied but one cannot deny the agenda of cultural appropriation behind this trend. Having tried many techniques for harvesting the Hindu souls right from the times of Roberto de Nobili of the 16[SUP]th[/SUP] century by donning the Hindu symbols, the Christian marketing team seems to have come around to getting popular Hindus of the day to don the Christian robe. That these Hindus happen to be or are supposed to be the torchbearers of Carnatic music is the reason behind the instant outrage against them.
………………….

………………….

The Christian songs that the new age singers promote would definitely alter their receptiveness to Hindu Gods in due course. Their followers from Hindu fold would also fall a prey to that trend by starting to sing their songs on Jesus. So a reverse osmosis is very much possible. This is in addition to the underlying motive of conversion by cultural appropriation. Will the singers realise that they are becoming tools of conversion?

Read more at: https://www.pgurus.com/can-carnatic-musicians-sing-christian-songs-set-to-carnatic-music/
 
The next question is.." do anyone of us own any God?"

So its back to my God and your God again.

Since the problem here is copyrighted Kirtis so what is the law about copyright in India?

In USA...
All works published in the United States before 1923 are in the public domain. Works published after 1922, but before 1978 are protected for 95 years from the date of publication. If the work was created, but not published, before 1978, the copyright lasts for the life of the author plus 70


May be the resident advocate can advise.

So technically I dont think its ILLEGAL for a Kirti to be using Jesus name in place of Rama..its just that it might seem to touch a raw nerve.
 


Vanakkam,

The above article given by Swathi25 ji, is very thought provoking and tends to make us think deep of this topic more. I agree,as said in the article, carnatic music functions as a medium to invoke God's presence, develop bhakti and subsequently attain moksha with the bhakti.

But it does open a pandora's box two. The south Indian film industy does use these ragas to create songs that are phenomenal and nice to the ears. Not all of the films and songs were centred on bhakti or deities. The traits and effects of different ragas were used in these songs, and many of the songs are popular and have wide appeal and reach.


Just to provide example, I am a die-hard fan of this compostion entitled Manusuloni by Saint Thyagaraja , it is sung by Yesudas ji here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A3FONrI-rw

The same song was revamped to fit filmi situations, for e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7zT9vW5x5U

The former was divine and the latter can be cringe-worthy for some.

It does show also that carnatic music has universal and diverse appeal. At the same time, it is also worrying missionaries from other faihts are luring people using this carnatic music.

And if we ban carnatic classical vocalists from incorporating themes from other faiths, because they do not promotes our Gods and bhakti, how we are going to give plausible explanations to the various songs based on carnatic music raagas that are abundant in south Indian Cinema, as not all songs promote bhakti.

So this topic does evoke many thoughts and many point-of-views.
 
Of late many leading Carnatic musicians started singing songs of other faiths. Is it correct? Why to object it ? Why not we object this?

The objection is to brahmins singing in praise of false prophets. Not to carnatic music not even to plagiarised lyrics. Of course those non-hindus, who have become members of this forum under false pretences will be happy at the degeneration of brahmins, making fun of upanishadic sayings,scarcely encountering any protest.
 
The next question is.." do anyone of us own any God?"

So its back to my God and your God again.

Since the problem here is copyrighted Kirtis so what is the law about copyright in India?

In USA...
All works published in the United States before 1923 are in the public domain. Works published after 1922, but before 1978 are protected for 95 years from the date of publication. If the work was created, but not published, before 1978, the copyright lasts for the life of the author plus 70


May be the resident advocate can advise.

So technically I dont think its ILLEGAL for a Kirti to be using Jesus name in place of Rama..its just that it might seem to touch a raw nerve.


It is reported that the concept of copyright in India was introduced during the time it was British colony. When the literary Copyright Act, 1842 was passed by the British parliament bringing about many changes in the law of copyright, it was also made applicable in British colonies besides Britain himself. That way in was introduced in India in 1982.

Whereas the period of Saint Tyagaraja was from 4[SUP]th[/SUP] May 1767 to 6[SUP]th[/SUP] January 1847.

Now, do we really need resident advocate's advice.....???
 
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The protest is due to danger of conversion syndrome.

Instead of looking at the negative aspect, the Hindu scholars can counter Missionaries by studying Bible thoroughly and if there are similarities between Vedas/Upanishads and Bible the same can be exposed and may even bring Christ under Hindu fold.

There is a saying: MULLAI MULLALATHAN EDUKKANUM.

Can the Hindu Scholars make any attempt?
 
It is reported that the concept of copyright in India was introduced during the time it was British colony. When the literary Copyright Act, 1842 was passed by the British parliament bringing about many changes in the law of copyright, it was also made applicable in British colonies besides Britain himself. That way in was introduced in India in 1982.

Whereas the period of Saint Tyagaraja was from 4[SUP]th[/SUP] May 1767 to 6[SUP]th[/SUP] January 1847.

Now, do we really need resident advocate's advice.....???

So that means Legally its not an offence.
 
The protest is due to danger of conversion syndrome.

Instead of looking at the negative aspect, the Hindu scholars can counter Missionaries by studying Bible thoroughly and if there are similarities between Vedas/Upanishads and Bible the same can be exposed and may even bring Christ under Hindu fold.

There is a saying: MULLAI MULLALATHAN EDUKKANUM.

Can the Hindu Scholars make any attempt?

Thats way too easy..just make some Purana claiming so and so was a False avatar! Lol

Like how Lord Buddha was made out to be a false avatar of Lord Vishnu.

Ok..do this anti christ act now...someone should do the Kumarilla Bhatta ( who learnt under a Buddhist Jedi Master) and later crossed over to the Hindu camp.

So we need a Hindu who is willing to do study Bible in Hebrew if possible..then put on drama that he is a devoted Christian and then commit Guru Droha and join Hindutva to eliminate Christian influence.

I do have one person in mind! LOL.
it must be a person who dons multiple " avatars"
 
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I do have one person in mind! LOL.
it must be a person who dons multiple " avatars"

I too have one person in mind...will be more fitting for the job.

A person who opened a thread like 'God lives on' and subsequently killed it. Let Baba forgive them.

It is natural that a weird mind gets weird thought. lol
 
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For heaven sake, let us not deviate from the subject in question. In the programme wherein one of the leading carnatic artists,who earned his name , fame etc etc by singing carnstic songs and bhajans was in a shocking mode in appearance , who wiped off his tilaka, basma and wore a crucifix . Many were shocked to see the video. Why should play plagarised versions of classical krithis , which are meant to adore Rama or Shiva , replaced with Jesus. The christians started calling bible as Vedhas, calling Saint Thiruvalluvar as disciple of Thomas, calling the priests as Iyers etc. Such dishonest portrayal s are straightaway to be condemned. From ancient days hindus rather hinduism has a deep difference in ideology with christians rather chritianity. Can we tollerate these sorts of infringements in our faith in hinduism?Let them not play any havoc by these sort of culturation.Let our learned , highly respectable singers who were the lineage from very respectable guru shiya paramoara ,deviate their path in the name socalled pseudo -secularism.It is request of many ardent followers of Trinity of Carnatic music.
 
For heaven sake, let us not deviate from the subject in question. In the programme wherein one of the leading carnatic artists,who earned his name , fame etc etc by singing carnstic songs and bhajans was in a shocking mode in appearance , who wiped off his tilaka, basma and wore a crucifix . Many were shocked to see the video. Why should play plagarised versions of classical krithis , which are meant to adore Rama or Shiva , replaced with Jesus. The christians started calling bible as Vedhas, calling Saint Thiruvalluvar as disciple of Thomas, calling the priests as Iyers etc. Such dishonest portrayal s are straightaway to be condemned. From ancient days hindus rather hinduism has a deep difference in ideology with christians rather chritianity. Can we tollerate these sorts of infringements in our faith in hinduism?Let them not play any havoc by these sort of culturation.Let our learned , highly respectable singers who were the lineage from very respectable guru shiya paramoara ,deviate their path in the name socalled pseudo -secularism.It is request of many ardent followers of Trinity of Carnatic music.

Hi,

I think discussing about faith, culture etc in this thread in quite irrelevant.

It is all money that matters. It plays the vital part.

What could be the need or urge for these musicians who have already earned name and fame to sing christian devotional songs.

Are we blowing issue out of proportion...?

The memory of our public are very poor.

I reproduce here under my reply in other group which quite relevant

Come December-January, Chennai will be celebrating Annual Music Festival with grand arrangements, Advertisements, Articles in dailies including the menu in Sabha Canteen. All News Papers (English mostly) will carry the schedule or programme of these vocalists in detail and Pakka Vaadhyams. There will be queue for tickets and Season tickets.


These Carnatic Musicians will wear a rich Silk saree with great passion and perform Kutchery with audience ‘House-Full’.


There will be thunderous clapping/applause in the Sabha Hall. The Canteen of the Sabhas will be jam-packed with a detailed menu of delicious and mouth watering dishes offered at thecanteen.


Every Sabha Secretary will be so busy like a Principal of a popular College during Admission season.


All critics will be reviewing the Ragam, Thalam, Pallavi, Alabana, Aarogonam, Avaroganam, etc etc of the vocalists day’s performance.


At the end of the season, each best one will be awarded with titles like Sangitha Kalanidhi, Sangeetha Bushanam, etc and a VIP, or a Retd judge will present them to the musicians.


Public will forget all the Christian Alubm issue etc etc


Nothing is going to change.


This is the reality
 
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Here is a more relevant news

The Hindu temple at US have already initiated action against such signers.


They have considered and took decision to cancel the programme of one of the musicians


A week after hym controvery, US temple cancels TM Krishna concert.


Organisers announce decision on Facebook; Krishna had been targeted by Hindu outfits in Tamil Nadu for singing Christian hymns.


Bengaluru:
A prominent temple in the United States has cancelled a concert featuring noted Carnatic singer T.M. Krishna, a week after he, along with other prominent musicians, were the target of Hindu groups that had threatened them for singing Christian hymns.

The concert was to be held at the Sri Siva Vishnu Temple in Maryland, one of the largest in the US, on 9 September. The organisers communicated the cancellation of the event on social media.

Read more at: https://theprint.in/politics/a-week...us-temple-cancels-t-m-krishna-concert/100447/

Will our Sabhas follow suit.

Now, he would a lost money.

Let it be an eye opener to other musicians too.
 
For heaven sake, let us not deviate from the subject in question. In the programme wherein one of the leading carnatic artists,who earned his name , fame etc etc by singing carnstic songs and bhajans was in a shocking mode in appearance , who wiped off his tilaka, basma and wore a crucifix . Many were shocked to see the video. Why should play plagarised versions of classical krithis , which are meant to adore Rama or Shiva , replaced with Jesus. The christians started calling bible as Vedhas, calling Saint Thiruvalluvar as disciple of Thomas, calling the priests as Iyers etc. Such dishonest portrayal s are straightaway to be condemned. From ancient days hindus rather hinduism has a deep difference in ideology with christians rather chritianity. Can we tollerate these sorts of infringements in our faith in hinduism?Let them not play any havoc by these sort of culturation.Let our learned , highly respectable singers who were the lineage from very respectable guru shiya paramoara ,deviate their path in the name socalled pseudo -secularism.It is request of many ardent followers of Trinity of Carnatic music.

TM Krishna is very secular and has made bold statements that he will object to anyone wanting sole monopoly to Carnatic music...but he has valid points too...he wants to make Carnatic music userfriendly to everyone.

Anyway I am not.a great.fan of Carnatic music..only a few songs I like.

[video=youtube_share;hE4X9VxXGcs]https://youtu.be/hE4X9VxXGcs[/video]
 
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