Saatvic, Rajasic or Tamasic actions - Page 3
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by renuka View Post
    Well..there comes a stage in life where you sing..

    " When the sun rays and the rain falls equally on all..why did i have a cataract that clouded my vision?"

    There is a beauty in loving entire mankind and seeing them as you and seeing you as them.


    A girl who ran over a cat while driving might feel sad becos its normal to feel sad for a while..most humans are wired to feel remorse unless they are psychopaths.
    But the same girl would don a silk saree made from silk worms that were killed for it.

    Nothing extra special of anyone feeling temorse..i have cried for people i dont even know...cried when i accidently stepped on a snail cos I am human.

    Its that simple.

    If I lock you up in an igloo with no vegetarian food ..hunger would make you kill a seal for survival.

    That again is human.
    Yes I too wonder why cataract cloud some people's vision.

    "There is beauty in loving entire mankind and seeing them as you and seeing you as them" -- Amen.

    But I will still remain what I am and the others in the mankind will remain what they are. That is what is called heterogeneity in creation. If there is going to be a world of undifferentiated homogeneity it will be lifeless and hence will be awkward. There will be no beauty there.

    I am speaking about a heterogeneity here which is totally different from the castes as they are understood by people generally. anyone who equates heterogeneity in creation with castes (political) is either myopic or are doing a great disservice to the humanity for their own political reasons. Period.

    In my example the girl did not run over the cat. The cat ran away alright but she thought she had hurt it and so she lost sleep over the night. and to the boy the hen was friend and he was feeding it, talking to it and was playing with it but without a second thought could kill it and present it for cooking. That is the difference.

    The boy may in his later years become a Renukaji follower and may cry for people he did not know and may cry when steps over a snail. But the fact that he had no remorse for killing that hen will also stand. For him killing also needs to be reflected upon to regret. Whereas for the girl the nightmare she lived through was natural and real and spontaneous. It did not need any deliberation or reflection. May be you have not come across such people. So it is not that simple.

    In the Igloo I would prefer to die starving than kill and eat the seal or walrus. You do not know me.
    Giving someone a piece of your soul is better than giving a piece of your heart. Because souls are eternal. --Helen Boswell
  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaagmi View Post
    Yes I too wonder why cataract cloud some people's vision.

    "There is beauty in loving entire mankind and seeing them as you and seeing you as them" -- Amen.

    But I will still remain what I am and the others in the mankind will remain what they are. That is what is called heterogeneity in creation. If there is going to be a world of undifferentiated homogeneity it will be lifeless and hence will be awkward. There will be no beauty there.

    I am speaking about a heterogeneity here which is totally different from the castes as they are understood by people generally. anyone who equates heterogeneity in creation with castes (political) is either myopic or are doing a great disservice to the humanity for their own political reasons. Period.

    In my example the girl did not run over the cat. The cat ran away alright but she thought she had hurt it and so she lost sleep over the night. and to the boy the hen was friend and he was feeding it, talking to it and was playing with it but without a second thought could kill it and present it for cooking. That is the difference.

    The boy may in his later years become a Renukaji follower and may cry for people he did not know and may cry when steps over a snail. But the fact that he had no remorse for killing that hen will also stand. For him killing also needs to be reflected upon to regret. Whereas for the girl the nightmare she lived through was natural and real and spontaneous. It did not need any deliberation or reflection. May be you have not come across such people. So it is not that simple.

    In the Igloo I would prefer to die starving than kill and eat the seal or walrus. You do not know me.
    Grief and remorse is a normal process.
    As i said everyone is capable of it.

    Even war veterans get survivors guilt seeing their friends die in war..may be you havent come accross such individuals.

    The body has been tru countless birth..in any life we could have taken a life knowingly or unknowingly...this too stands karmically imprinted in our vasanas.

    So Vaagmi gene theory only talks about the gross body and the DNA but what about imprints brought from a past birth?
    How does that modify genetic expression at a subtle level?

    BTW Sage Mandavya had injured and tortured birds as a child as he was told by Yama Dharmaraj when the sage questioned him as why he was impalled by the Kings soldiers.

    Sage Mandavya got angry hearing what Yama told him and said that actions done during childhood can not be judged ..owing to this the sage cursed Yama to be born as Vidura for giving an explanation that didnt jive with Dharma.

    So Vaagmi ji..the little boy who plays with a hen and then hands over the hen for his mum to cook fried chicken..do you still want to hold him accountable for his actions in childhood even though as you say when he grows up he might become my follower and shed tears for unknown people?

    You seem to want to hold the little boy accountable for his actions done as a child..but since I am not Mandavya ...you escaped!LOL

    Btw one Alwar had past history that theft so do you want to hold him responsible for his actions after he was transformed.

    Angulimala and Valmiki too had injured/ killed/ rob..do you want to hold them accountable?
    Last edited by renuka; 09-12-2017 at 07:49 AM.
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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raghy View Post
    Dear Renuka,

    If you like to discuss about 'Vaagmi gene theory' in detail, I very humbly request you to do it in a separate thread, please. Thank you.

    ( Note - What ever you say about me soon after reading my message is probably true. I agree with that. Cheers ).
    Before everyone gets alarmed, I know I am replying to my own message.

    Dear Renuka,

    I am sorry I asked you not to discuss ' Vaagmi Theory' without knowing that theory. Now I know. So, now I realise 'Vaagmi Theory' is very much relevant to this thread. So, I request you to discuss that theory too, please.

    I agree with 'Vaagmi Theory'.

    Dear Sri. Vaagmi,

    Thanks for explaining 'Vaagmi Theory'. I agree with it. In the sub-continent amoung the Muslims, the Sir Name " Syed" is honourable because they think it has a linage to Prophet Muhammad. In most societies, even a bastard child, if it was Sired by a famous person, gets respected due to the linage.
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  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by renuka View Post
    Grief and remorse is a normal process.
    As i said everyone is capable of it.

    Even war veterans get survivors guilt seeing their friends die in war..may be you havent come accross such individuals.

    The body has been tru countless birth..in any life we could have taken a life knowingly or unknowingly...this too stands karmically imprinted in our vasanas.

    So Vaagmi gene theory only talks about the gross body and the DNA but what about imprints brought from a past birth?
    How does that modify genetic expression at a subtle level?

    BTW Sage Mandavya had injured and tortured birds as a child as he was told by Yama Dharmaraj when the sage questioned him as why he was impalled by the Kings soldiers.

    Sage Mandavya got angry hearing what Yama told him and said that actions done during childhood can not be judged ..owing to this the sage cursed Yama to be born as Vidura for giving an explanation that didnt jive with Dharma.

    So Vaagmi ji..the little boy who plays with a hen and then hands over the hen for his mum to cook fried chicken..do you still want to hold him accountable for his actions in childhood even though as you say when he grows up he might become my follower and shed tears for unknown people?

    You seem to want to hold the little boy accountable for his actions done as a child..but since I am not Mandavya ...you escaped!LOL

    Btw one Alwar had past history that theft so do you want to hold him responsible for his actions after he was transformed.

    Angulimala and Valmiki too had injured/ killed/ rob..do you want to hold them accountable?
    Dear Renuka,

    I think this is getting more and more verbose without offering anything new to think about.

    But I have to answer that one point you have raised just for argument.

    Remorse and regret are indeed normal for any human being. So that boy can regret just as Thirumangai Alwar regretted.

    I am am not talking about this here. I am talking about the propensity to kill. That was there as a natural tendency in that boy because of his genes. He would have killed the seal or walrus in order to survive in an Igloo. But the girl who abhors even hurting would never kill. And according to Robert Boyd's theory the impact of her genes environment for hundreds of years is responsible for that. A Brahmin never hurts wantonly nor kills wantonly. Period.
    Giving someone a piece of your soul is better than giving a piece of your heart. Because souls are eternal. --Helen Boswell
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  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaagmi View Post
    Dear Renuka,

    I think this is getting more and more verbose without offering anything new to think about.

    But I have to answer that one point you have raised just for argument.

    Remorse and regret are indeed normal for any human being. So that boy can regret just as Thirumangai Alwar regretted.

    I am am not talking about this here. I am talking about the propensity to kill. That was there as a natural tendency in that boy because of his genes. He would have killed the seal or walrus in order to survive in an Igloo. But the girl who abhors even hurting would never kill. And according to Robert Boyd's theory the impact of her genes environment for hundreds of years is responsible for that. A Brahmin never hurts wantonly nor kills wantonly. Period.
    I rest my case for I have found no enlightment in the flow of your thoughts.

    Its just a personal stance that Brahmin = Sattva and all others will have a " killing"gene in them.


    Its no different from a Jihadist claiming only Muslims go to Jannat Ul Firdaus and all others go to Hell Fire.


    BTW...Robert Boyd's theory might not hold good for human behavior cos I wonder how come the Sattva gene didnt prevent Naturam Godase from pulling the trigger.
    Last edited by renuka; 10-12-2017 at 08:53 AM.
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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by renuka View Post
    I rest my case for I have found no enlightment in the flow of your thoughts.

    Its just a personal stance that Brahmin = Sattva and all others will have a " killing"gene in them.


    Its no different from a Jihadist claiming only Muslims go to Jannat Ul Firdaus and all others go to Hell Fire.


    BTW...Robert Boyd's theory might not hold good for human behavior cos I wonder how come the Sattva gene didnt prevent Naturam Godase from pulling the trigger.
    I do not want to argue this further. I leave it at that. For every question there is an answer. And the answers will be acceptable only to those who are outside the politics of castes -- like Robert Boyd. The rest of the "politicians" have a closed mind. It is better not to try to rupture that.

    Thanks for engaging.
    Giving someone a piece of your soul is better than giving a piece of your heart. Because souls are eternal. --Helen Boswell
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by renuka View Post
    I rest my case for I have found no enlightment in the flow of your thoughts.

    Its just a personal stance that Brahmin = Sattva and all others will have a " killing"gene in them.


    Its no different from a Jihadist claiming only Muslims go to Jannat Ul Firdaus and all others go to Hell Fire.



    BTW...Robert Boyd's theory might not hold good for human behavior cos I wonder how come the Sattva gene didnt prevent Naturam Godase from pulling the trigger.


    What about Parasuram or Drona?
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by prasad1 View Post
    What about Parasuram or Drona?
    Parashuram had a Kshatriya mother so going by Sattva gene theory Parashuram would have had the "killing gene".

    Drona.
    YES..i did think of him too but I didnt write his name cos then I know the reply would be that the Sattva gene can kill for a higher cause and its not the same as killing done by Non Sattva genes !!LOL.

    but you made me think of Ashwathama ibn Drona!

    He was a total haraami that cowardly killed the sleeping young upapandavas.

    Kya genes yaar!
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  16. #29
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    Simply put

    Being Sattvic is Entropic or Information oriented or Intelligent actions based on information, guided by our consciousness etc. Sattvic actions are Knowledge oriented, Experimental, Innovative.

    Being Rajasic is Energetic, exuding a lot of energy (potential), Energetic actions or movements (Kinetic). Rajasic actions are Leadership, Controlling the Movement etc, actions guided by energy.

    Being Tamasic is negentropy, information less actions, just following the tradition as it is blindly, neither analytical, nor leading.

    The action of a sniper from a hidden point (on killing a person) can be sattvic or rajasic or tamasic in the following way

    1. If the sniper analyses the information around the movement of the subject, his/her position, practical issues that can come up during the shooting and ensures he takes an intelligent decision on if to shoot, when to shoot, how to shoot, then it is sattvic.

    2. If the sniper exudes energy or uses energetic action in shooting the subject, follows the subject with vigor, but does not process information related to the current environment adequately, then the action is rajasic.

    3. If the sniper just follows the rules and procedures that are established as part of the process and does the job mundanely, it is tamasic

    This is the trigunas on the 'sniper's job performance.

    The same trigunas can be applied at multiple levels. The Sniper may be employed by Army, Mafia or for personal enmity etc. The sniper may analyze his/her action of sniping using tri-gunas in this way.

    1. Understand the reasons for sniping and subsequent reactions that would accrue on personal and society at large and comes to an informed decision weighing costs and benefits - This is sattvic.

    2. Does not much analysis, but just follows the passion, anger or vegeance that builds up the energy to snipe - This is rajasic

    3. Gets paid and does it - This is tamasic

    This is the trigunas on the sniper's actions

    The very action of sniping itself can be classified by tri-gunas.

    1. Hitting an unknown enemy by mistake is Tamasic as it lacks information and energy.
    2. Hitting a known enemy unknown to him/her is Rajasic as it lacks consciousness and just exhibits passion/anger/arrogance etc
    3. Hitting a known enemy in direct fight is sattvic as it has information and energy.

    The action of a war or killing can be classified by tri-gunas.

    1. Fighting is Rajasic as it exhibits energy but lacks consciousness/intelligence/information processing.
    2. Arriving at a unity in diversity option is sattvic as it employs mind.
    3. Surrendering is tamasic as it lacks energy and mind.

    -TBT
    Last edited by thebigthinkg; 11-12-2017 at 08:32 AM.
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  18. #30
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    Is Vaagmi theory biting the dust based on all the counter points being made? Are there any followers left for this theory other than Mr Vaagmi himself?
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