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Who is a " Vathiyar" & how much have we degraded the role.

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I recently recieved a whatsapp message about how Vathiyar are in demand , ( Though well intended) the speaker spoke about how it is easy to get an electrician or plumber but not an Vathiyar to do any homam or ritual.

It made me ponder how the " Vathiyar" itself has now become a profession & felt it is a disgrace that to be compared to services of Electrician or Plumber.

Who is a " Vathiyar" & how much have we degraded the role.

In my house we had a " Family" Vathiyar who commanded a huge respect & was consulted on all family maters whether it was searching for a groom or bride or wedding or building house or buying a new vehicle.

He even acted as an arbitrate once between my uncles over property issues and amicably settled things.

I do remember he acted as a solid support during tough times like handling death of a member, an addiction problem for one of my uncles .Infact he would forewarn all in matters like starting of bad dasa or bhukti ,My mother refused to allow me to buy a bike since he had said wait for a year his "Graha" isn't favourable and maybe prone to accident.

He was a guiding star to our family and to many families in our town.

Why was this concept of training "Vathiyars" at veda patashala established? It was to ensure that Nitya Karma ,Anushtana Karma etc are followed without any dilution. The father may teach the "Gayathri Mantra" but the Sandhiyavandanam is taught by the "Vathiyar" so that the students learn directly from an Expert the proper way.

From such a noble status to reducing them to the status of an electrician or plumber makes me sad.
 
I recently recieved a whatsapp message about how Vathiyar are in demand , ( Though well intended) the speaker spoke about how it is easy to get an electrician or plumber but not an Vathiyar to do any homam or ritual.

It made me ponder how the " Vathiyar" itself has now become a profession & felt it is a disgrace that to be compared to services of Electrician or Plumber.

Who is a " Vathiyar" & how much have we degraded the role.

In my house we had a " Family" Vathiyar who commanded a huge respect & was consulted on all family maters whether it was searching for a groom or bride or wedding or building house or buying a new vehicle.

He even acted as an arbitrate once between my uncles over property issues and amicably settled things.

I do remember he acted as a solid support during tough times like handling death of a member, an addiction problem for one of my uncles .Infact he would forewarn all in matters like starting of bad dasa or bhukti ,My mother refused to allow me to buy a bike since he had said wait for a year his "Graha" isn't favourable and maybe prone to accident.

He was a guiding star to our family and to many families in our town.

Why was this concept of training "Vathiyars" at veda patashala established? It was to ensure that Nitya Karma ,Anushtana Karma etc are followed without any dilution. The father may teach the "Gayathri Mantra" but the Sandhiyavandanam is taught by the "Vathiyar" so that the students learn directly from an Expert the proper way.

From such a noble status to reducing them to the status of an electrician or plumber makes me sad.
hi

nice point....i studied veda patashala....my many friends are vathiyaar now....the supply and demand....this theory applies

everywhere..i feel the main reasons....kartha/vathiyar and community.....all are responsible for the reasons...
 
In the pretext of being ultra modern, many brahmins have stopped doing nithya karmAs assigned to them.

The upanayanam ceremony has become a function to display the wealth of the family! Most boys don't prefer to

perform the 'sandhyAvandhanam', since their Q is, 'Why do you force ME, when appA is NOT doing it?'

I know a chubby kid from a sAsthrigaL family, who is teased by his friends in school as 'Thayir sAdham!'

It is very sad!

Even in movies, brahmin dialect is made fun of and we don't raise any objection because we hate fights /arguments.
 
Family vadhyars of old are disappearing and getting replaced by modern commercialised types giving services for price.

It is in keeping with needs of brahmin families of today who want vadhyar services with clear cut time observance with rates defined.

Perhaps it is the need of the times and vadhyars have also adapted to the changing needs.

By the way I must thank TBS ji for suggesting a vadhyar in kundanahalli in bangalore whom I engaged for a small function in bangalore recently

He was business like and did the needful observing time schedule and being clear about his compensation.
 
Here is an explanation given by (Late) Cho Ramaswami mostly followed from Kanchi Acharya's words in "தெய்த்தின் குரல்" book."
வாத்யார் எனும் சொல், அத்யாபகர், உபாத்தியாயர் போன்ற சில சொற்கள் மருவி வந்ததன் விளைவு. அத்யாபகர், உபாத்யாயர் என்றால் வேதங்களை கற்பிப்பவர். தற்காலத்தில், கணிதம், ஆங்கிலம், விஞ்ஞானம் என எதைக் கற்பித்தாலும், அவரை வாத்தியார் அல்லது உபாத்தியாயர் என்றே அழைக்கிறோம்."
Thus our priests who preside over our religious functions are called "Vadhyar".

It is my opinion that giving or offering Sambavanai( fee ) for
their services to Acharya is a must.
We should be liberal in our offering.
These people spend their best years of learning in their life in full time learning in a religious Mutt or in the house of their Acharya without expecting any great comfort like other Children of their age. Many Veda patasalas are closing down due to lack of funds and Students.

We cannot forget the munificence of Nagarathar, Mudaliar and other Non-Brahmin communities during the British era in funding Veda Patasalas. They took care of the maintenance of Hindu Temples from their personal earnings.

I feel happy to note that most of the Hindu migrants to UK., USA., Australia and other Countries offer part of their earnings to resurrect the spirit of Hindu religion. Let us not forget our "glorious culture" still survive due to the immence sacrifice of previous generations.
All earnings in human life is based on the economic theory of demand and supply. It will continue so in future also.

Brahmanyan
Bangalore.
 
This is in USA.

Our temple has 4 priests (I do not know whether they can be called Vathiyar)., One of them is Gujarati. The priests are well paid and cared for by the Temple including free housing, health benefits, car insurance etc.

The temple has established a fee schedule for each service (one for performing in the temple and one for performing outside).

In addition, the priest do get a donation from the host depending on the service and the host.

The priest also gets a cut from the temple.


The priest's taxable annual income is about six-figure in dollars. In addition, all the donations are in cash.

(One of them has a new Mercedes Benz car, plus rental properties. (I helped him fill his IT returns)
 
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I recently recieved a whatsapp message about how Vathiyar are in demand , ( Though well intended) the speaker spoke about how it is easy to get an electrician or plumber but not an Vathiyar to do any homam or ritual.

It made me ponder how the " Vathiyar" itself has now become a profession & felt it is a disgrace that to be compared to services of Electrician or Plumber.

Who is a " Vathiyar" & how much have we degraded the role.

In my house we had a " Family" Vathiyar who commanded a huge respect & was consulted on all family maters whether it was searching for a groom or bride or wedding or building house or buying a new vehicle.

He even acted as an arbitrate once between my uncles over property issues and amicably settled things.

I do remember he acted as a solid support during tough times like handling death of a member, an addiction problem for one of my uncles .Infact he would forewarn all in matters like starting of bad dasa or bhukti ,My mother refused to allow me to buy a bike since he had said wait for a year his "Graha" isn't favourable and maybe prone to accident.

He was a guiding star to our family and to many families in our town.

Why was this concept of training "Vathiyars" at veda patashala established? It was to ensure that Nitya Karma ,Anushtana Karma etc are followed without any dilution. The father may teach the "Gayathri Mantra" but the Sandhiyavandanam is taught by the "Vathiyar" so that the students learn directly from an Expert the proper way.

From such a noble status to reducing them to the status of an electrician or plumber makes me sad.

I dont.get it...what is so low about a plumber or electrician?

Without a plumber we wont have a proper drainage system at home for sullage and sewage.

Without an electrician we wont even have light at home or be able to use electrical appliances..proper wiring is needed to make sure no short circuits.

All professions done well is next to God.

Vathiyar is also a profession...there is no doubt about that.

A few days ago India won the Miss World 2017 crown..Manushi Chhillar gave a very unusual answer but it still won her the crown.

She said " motherhood is a profession..that should be highest paid not with cash but with love and respect"

I might not fully agree that motherhood or fatherhood or riding hood is a profession but the Jatni from Haryana won the crown.


Back to what I was saying..there is no low or no high in any profession.
All professions need each other.
That is what society is all about.

Even Vathiyar would need the service of a plumber..electrician and finally the crematorium worker.
 
hi

once upon a time...every family had family vathiyar...the vathiyar is like family member....very close bondage with family and family

vathiyar...he is like private physician for the whole family.....now the system is broken....nuclear family and money oriented

vathiyar is also reason for that...
 
Vathiyar is not just a profession once upon a time he was a friend, philosopher & guide .He helped us to lead peaceful spiritual life.

What is low about an electrician or plumber? Did I say they are low ?

I said I felt sad that its compared to a services of a electrician or plumber which anyone can become without strenuous education as that of one at a Veda Padashala

If all jobs are the same why dont you pay the electrician the same amount as you pay for a doctor or a lawyer?

Will you tell your children to aspire for IAS or IPS or Engineer Doctor etc or ask them to become plumbers?

Easy to preach difficult to follow

I dont.get it...what is so low about a plumber or electrician?

Without a plumber we wont have a proper drainage system at home for sullage and sewage.

Without an electrician we wont even have light at home or be able to use electrical appliances..proper wiring is needed to make sure no short circuits.

All professions done well is next to God.

Vathiyar is also a profession...there is no doubt about that.

A few days ago India won the Miss World 2017 crown..Manushi Chhillar gave a very unusual answer but it still won her the crown.

She said " motherhood is a profession..that should be highest paid not with cash but with love and respect"

I might not fully agree that motherhood or fatherhood or riding hood is a profession but the Jatni from Haryana won the crown.


Back to what I was saying..there is no low or no high in any profession.
All professions need each other.
That is what society is all about.

Even Vathiyar would need the service of a plumber..electrician and finally the crematorium worker.
 
Vathiyar is not just a profession once upon a time he was a friend, philosopher & guide .He helped us to lead peaceful spiritual life.

What is low about an electrician or plumber? Did I say they are low ?

I said I felt sad that its compared to a services of a electrician or plumber which anyone can become without strenuous education as that of one at a Veda Padashala

If all jobs are the same why dont you pay the electrician the same amount as you pay for a doctor or a lawyer?

Will you tell your children to aspire for IAS or IPS or Engineer Doctor etc or ask them to become plumbers?

Easy to preach difficult to follow


From such a noble status to reducing them to the status of an electrician or plumber makes me sad.

Dear Sir...

this is what you had written.
The word REDUCING means Lowering.

LOL!


Out here just to call a Plumber to the house charges can go up to RM80 to RM 100 just for consultation.

A doctor (General Practitioner) is only allowed by guidelines to charge RM 30 to RM 50 for simple consultation.

More detail consultation is more than RM 50.

Yes...I pay my plumber more than what I can legally charge my patients becos I have to follow Ministry of Health guidelines but the Plumber does not have to follow any Ministry of Plumbing rules.

We all tell our children to follow their ambition.

I never tell my child to become a doc or engineer or lawyer.

He wants to be a paleontologist for now..a job that does not have much scope in the country I stay yet I let him decide what he wants.

There are many children who might not take so called "professional" jobs but end up doing well in field of automative repairs and have successful chains of repair shops dealing with higher end car repair and maintenance.


BTW Plumbing too needs training and skill..its not made for everyone.

Every education is strenuous...an electrician needs to get his wiring right..if he gets it wrong be ready for an electrical fire cos of short circuit.

Likewise not everyone can be trained to be a Soldier or Vathiyar.

Which training is easier? Navy Seal or Vathiyar?

No job is extra special..every job is sacred if done well.
 
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Madam ,

Reduced to a beck and call service is different from saying it is low.

There is always a concept of First Among Equals ,

My point was Vathiyar was an integral part of any household & it wasn't treated as a profession at all and certainly not as any electrician or plumber who you can get from any Yellow Pages directory.

All these talks of equality etc are easy on paper.

When it comes to searching for a bride for their daughter do they search for Electrician /Plumber / Vathiyar or Doctors/Engineer/IAS?

You may not tell your child not to become a doc or engineer or lawyer but certainly if he says I want to become a plumber you will tell NO.Vathiyar a Double NO

Let me also tell you Veda Patashala education is actually very difficult since its the choice of the parent as they are sent quite early as 6-7 years old.They learn to live a frugal life with very little comforts.

So there is a world of difference when I choose to be a Navy seal or Doctor or Lawyer or Plumber as an adult than when I am sent to a veda patashala by my parents .It requires immense sacrifice by both parents & their children ,in 99% cases its driven by poverty than by desire.
In this forum how many will agree for a Vathiyar as a son in law vs an engineer.

Are you saying an an average in the country a doctor is poorer than a electrician or plumber? Kindly google the facts
 
Madam ,

Reduced to a beck and call service is different from saying it is low.

There is always a concept of First Among Equals ,

My point was Vathiyar was an integral part of any household & it wasn't treated as a profession at all and certainly not as any electrician or plumber who you can get from any Yellow Pages directory.

All these talks of equality etc are easy on paper.

When it comes to searching for a bride for their daughter do they search for Electrician /Plumber / Vathiyar or Doctors/Engineer/IAS?

You may not tell your child not to become a doc or engineer or lawyer but certainly if he says I want to become a plumber you will tell NO.Vathiyar a Double NO

Let me also tell you Veda Patashala education is actually very difficult since its the choice of the parent as they are sent quite early as 6-7 years old.They learn to live a frugal life with very little comforts.

So there is a world of difference when I choose to be a Navy seal or Doctor or Lawyer or Plumber as an adult than when I am sent to a veda patashala by my parents .It requires immense sacrifice by both parents & their children ,in 99% cases its driven by poverty than by desire.
In this forum how many will agree for a Vathiyar as a son in law vs an engineer.

Are you saying an an average in the country a doctor is poorer than a electrician or plumber? Kindly google the facts

I think differently from you.

I never dictate conditions to my child.


Btw...depends..some plumbers have many shops and a host of foreign workers working for them too.

Yes..some might earn more than doctors if they secure big contracts to be incharge of plumbing for industries etc.

So its hard to say who earns more.

Either one could earn more depending on the situation.


There is sacrfice in any profession.
Its just that we choose to glorify some professions over the other.

Many people in this world who are not Vathiyars too live sans comfort due to poverty or due to acute circumstances.


Even those who go to Madrasas at an early age face a Vedapathashala environment...very few comforts...whole day spent dedicating life to become a hAfiz.

Life itself is a sacrifice.

Every profession is sacred...I wasnt talking about equality...I was talking about all professions deserve the same respect...so the question " lowering to the status of " does not apply.
 
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Vathiyar is also a profession...there is no doubt about that.

A few days ago India won the Miss World 2017 crown..Manushi Chhillar gave a very unusual answer but it still won her the crown.

She said " motherhood is a profession..that should be highest paid not with cash but with love and respect"

might not fully agree that motherhood or fatherhood or riding hood is a profession but the Jatni from Haryana won the crown.
(#10 Renuka)

Chillars statment - சில்லரை statment !

No motherhood fatherhood or ridinghood -

How about Robinhood to take on the Priesthood - the greedy !
 
In India about 45 years ago, we used to live in Jamshedpur, Bihar. There were various vathiyars for the Tamil community.

We had a family vathiyar, who was my mother's favorite. She would consult him for all religious
functions. He would even travel with us to family weddings to different cities.

Initially, he would come in a cycle, then a scooter, then a car. His charges also increased accordingly.

Similarly, we used to refer to some profession, not with that much reverence, but after independence things started to change.

School teachers were respected, now they are feared. On teachers day the quantity and quality of the gift is a major issue. When admission to a school cost Rs 5 lac, fear replaces reverence.

In olden days a Sanyasi is supposed to have renounced the world, and live in ashrams or under a tree, there was a respect.

But now they run ministries in the central government or run a state. should they get the same respect as say Raman maharishi? NO.

Yes it is changing, but that is the nature of things.
 
Btw...depends..some plumbers have many shops and a host of foreign workers working for them too.

Hope a day comes when foreign Vathiyars work under Indian Vathiyars

Even those who go to Madrasas at an early age face a Vedapathashala environment...very few comforts...whole day spent dedicating life to become a hAfiz.

Hope someone in Muslim.net takes that coz two wrongs doesnt make a right

How about Robinhood to take on the Priesthood - the greedy !

Wonder why you think Vathiyars are greedy Oh probably coz they dont take the Chillars that you throw as dakshina and go away instead probably charge a a fixed sum


 
Initially, he would come in a cycle, then a scooter, then a car. His charges also increased accordingly.

Did his prosperity deter your mom to change her mind or treat him differently ? did he behave differently when wealth came to him?
 
Initially, he would come in a cycle, then a scooter, then a car. His charges also increased accordingly.

Did his prosperity deter your mom to change her mind or treat him differently ? did he behave differently when wealth came to him?


NO, my mother never changed her mind, she was very determined women.

He even performed her last rites. No my mother was well to do financially, and very generous. He was always respectful, we went to his son's weddings. I used to visit him till he was alive. None of his sons followed his profession. I do not think his personality towards our family changed. He was a humble person.

He passed away about 15 years ago. Now my brother does not find a Vathiayrs practicing in their town, they have to get the temple priest to officiate even for shradhams.
 
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Wonder why you think Vathiyars are greedy Oh probably coz they dont take the Chillars that you throw as dakshina and go away instead probably charge a a fixed sum
(#15)

They are never happy with the chillars as dakshina - Their capricious demands are spine chillers!
 
Basically, there are two extreme types of brahmins. (Of course, there are some in- between types also.)

One type wants to promote 'prOhits' and conduct many hOmams and poojAs at home, every year and pay a good amount to

each sAsthrigaL, who come and perform. Another type does not believe in rituals or karmAs and :Cry: to pay dhakshiNai, when

some event needs sAstrigaL's participation!!

One of my cousin sister's family is the first type. Recently, they conducted 'MahA Rudra Japam' - a three day event. About 30

persons from her extended family attended it. She arranged 5 star hotel accommodation for those who came from other towns

and after the completion of the Japam, presented nice sarees and dhotis to the guests. The estimated cost is 10 lakhs + !!

So, such families DO exist in this 21st century too! :clap2:
 
Yesterday, I got a video clipping from an unknown number! A person requested to donate

money, for the event - 'Sahasra bhOjanam', arranged by Kanchi Sri matam, on 31-12-2017.

Here is the web page which gives the details.


sahasra-bhojanam-flyer-1-page-003.jpg
 
Yesterday, I got a video clipping from an unknown number! A person requested to donate

money, for the event - 'Sahasra bhOjanam', arranged by Kanchi Sri matam, on 31-12-2017.

Here is the web page which gives the details.


sahasra-bhojanam-flyer-1-page-003.jpg

Madam,
From the image we could not understand the purpose of this event " Sahasra Bhojanam" arranged at the cost of ₹60-70 lakhs by Kanchi Mutt.
Is it for performing any Homa or yagnya ? If so what is the amount of contribution of the Kanchi Mutt ? I am sure they have funds for performing religious rituals.

Brahmanyan
Bangalore.
 
Choice is yours to hire or not , Since we have made it a free market and treat them like Electricians or plumbers pay Pay like how Uber or Ola charges xxx times if the demand is more
Wonder why you think Vathiyars are greedy Oh probably coz they dont take the Chillars that you throw as dakshina and go away instead probably charge a a fixed sum
(#15)

They are never happy with the chillars as dakshina - Their capricious demands are spine chillers!
 
To make things clear I have nothing to do with this, Please make sufficient inquiries and proceed.

My humble opinion I dont subscribe to such events even if a Mutt of repute conducts it.

Any mutt should be for catering to the spiritual hunger and not physical hunger.

Madam,
From the image we could not understand the purpose of this event " Sahasra Bhojanam" arranged at the cost of ₹60-70 lakhs by Kanchi Mutt.
Is it for performing any Homa or yagnya ? If so what is the amount of contribution of the Kanchi Mutt ? I am sure they have funds for performing religious rituals.

Brahmanyan
Bangalore.
 
Sir

Precisely this bonding is now what is missing and the absence of such family " Guru" or Guide is the reason false Godmen are fooling people and filling their coffers

NO, my mother never changed her mind, she was very determined women.

He even performed her last rites. No my mother was well to do financially, and very generous. He was always respectful, we went to his son's weddings. I used to visit him till he was alive. None of his sons followed his profession. I do not think his personality towards our family changed. He was a humble person.

He passed away about 15 years ago. Now my brother does not find a Vathiayrs practicing in their town, they have to get the temple priest to officiate even for shradhams.
 
Choice is yours to hire or not , Since we have made it a free market and treat them like Electricians or plumbers pay Pay like how Uber or Ola charges xxx times if the demand is more

To make things clear I have nothing to do with this, Please make sufficient inquiries and proceed.

My humble opinion I dont subscribe to such events even if a Mutt of repute conducts it.

Any mutt should be for catering to the spiritual hunger and not physical hunger.


The cost of treatment for Diabetes Spiritualitis with Poly Dypsia Poly Phagia (Spiritual hunger and thirst) in Super Speciality Mutts are decided by supply demand rule!
 
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