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Do not follow any philosophy - what is Surrender to God?

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This thread is inspired by thread by Mr Prasad (I follow Advaitaphilosophy , but not comfortable with prayer).

Question is Why should a God, the almighty create all these beings and expect them to surrender to Him/Her/It?

What does a devotee surrender? Why does he surrender - because he is afraid? The whole 'philosophy' of total surrender does not make sense


Tried to have a serious conversation about this with someone here who has claimed to have surrendered to his God. Had to only count 1,2,3,4,5 - already he had hit the roof with frustration and went into attack mode hahahaa. So not sure that brand of surrender has worked for him.

LOL He is welcome to respond here LOL May god bless him !

Any insights? Is this surrender thing really taught in Advaita?

Logging here off and on randomly but will follow this thread if there are responses

Thanks
 
I feel total surrender is not possible.
We humans only say we surrender when faced with acute stress.

The mind has its limits..when the limit is reached it goes into shut dowm mode and it prefers to imagine total surrender.

Once the acute phase of stress is over...surrender too is forgotten.

The human is a selfish creature..it needs a Savior to feel secure.

Total surrender in my opinion is a transient state of mental immobilization where one has given up all hope.
 
We have been made to believe that performance of rituals..prayers..chanting of mantras...pilgrimage cleanses the mind and body.

But there are those who adhere to all these..lead pure lifestyle but yet are not able to control emotions and can be harsh in attitude and perception..not to mention judgmental.

So how come all the chantings..life style..purity etc failed here?

Do these practices actually have an effect?

I have noted some very outwardly religios people who never miss any Nithyakarma have malignant temper.

So its getting harder for me to believe that Nithya Karmas has any effect at all.
 
IMHO, total surrender does NOT mean that one should leave everything to God, without making any effort!

I have heard a story of a man, who took 'surrender to God' in the wrong sense. :sad:

When he went in a boat far away in the sea, unfortunately his boat capsized! He surrendered to God and waited for Him.

A fisherman passed by and offered to help; he refused and said he was waiting for his God.

A ship passed by and he denied their help too. Then, a helicopter came and he denied that help too!

Finally he died and went straight away to God, to fight with Him for not heeding to his prayer.

God said, 'I sent three different persons to help you, but you were foolish enough NOT to accept even one! ;)
 
Advaita Philosophy: According to the Non-dualist, Brahman or Pure Consciousness is the only Reality; the universe of names and forms is unreal, and man, in his true essence, is one with Brahman. Sankaracharya proclaimed this as as “Brahma Satyam Jagat Mithya Jeevo Brahmaiva na parah”. An Advaita Jnani merges himself and becomes one with Brahman just like all the rivers lose their identity once they merge into the big Ocean. His goal is to become identical with Brahman. It is based on the definition of God as ‘Ekam Eva Advitiyam Brahma’(one and only one Reality without a second) given in Vedas and supported by the four Maha Vakyas of ‘Brahma Sutras’, namely, ‘Prgnanam Brahma’, Aham Brahma Asmi’, ‘Tat Tvam Asi’, and ‘Ayam Atma Brahma’. For our purpose we can say that they all mean the same that is: The Atma meaning Consciousness is all pervading and the same Consciousness is also in me with no difference.

https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/12272/differences-between-advaita-vishishtadvaita

I do not see any total or partial surrender is going to help.
When one has the knowledge of the true nature of Atma (consciousness) it dawns that it is one. That can happen only when we surrender our ego (i) to the supreme (I).
 
That can happen only when we surrender our ego (i) to the supreme (I)


Dear Prasad ji...you wrote the above...that we surrender our ego to the Supreme..agreed.

But in the other thread you mentioned about Begging.

That is you didnt identify with praising or begging God.

My question is..If we had surrendered our Ego to the Supreme why would we want to see the act of praising or begging in a negative light?

Doesnt the act of begging need total shattering of the ego?
 
Renukaji,
Surrender may not be the right word, it might be submerging of individual ego in the Brahman. It is an understanding the "Ahah" moment.
There is no begging involved. "Eureka! Eureka!" archemedice moment does not need begging.






 
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This ........

Question is Why should a God, the almighty create all these beings and expect them to surrender to Him/Her/It?

.....

This is the question man has been unsuccessfully trying to find an answer for ages.

Perhaps God Himself is wondering why He created man.

There is one book which mentions God as having created the stars, the planets, the plants, the animals etc and upon creating every creation He said, 'It is good'. At last God created man and to this day He has not said it is good.

'manidhanai padaithen manasthaabappatten' is what is written in that book as God saying.
 
Dear Madam Renuka:

Post 2, 3
Thanks for your comments. Some talk about surrender all the time even when they are not facing acute problems. Is it religious brainwashing?

Also do not know what pure lifestyle is and how it is connected to surrender to god


Post 4
Dear Madam Raji Ram:

Thanks for the story. OK, understood what surrender is not, but what is it


Post 5
Dear Mr Vaagmi:

You say "Yes total surrender can not be again a kind of bribe." Understood - then what is it? Why does god want the poor earthlings to surrender?

post 6,7,8

Dear Mr Prasad:

What surrender of ego mean? If a person says I have surrendered , then the one that says that has his ego intact, NO?
Otherwise which ego is saying 'I surrendered'

I dont know what god is except from stories, why should one merge with Him/Her/It

post 9, 10

Gnana sunyam - Thanks for your comments
 
... Dear Madam Raji Ram:

Thanks for the story. OK, understood what surrender is not, but what is it ....
Dear Sir,

Just believe 1. 'nadappadhellAm nanmaikkE' and 2. 'avanindri OraNuvum asaiyAdhu!'.

Belief 1 will make us think that everything happens for good; it has a reason.

(In the story, the man would have taken the help from the fisherman, who came first to save him.)

Belief 2 will make us understand that a Supreme power is ruling the world. This will make us humble!

(In the story, the man would have 'known' that the fisherman was sent by his God!)

Hence the proverb: 'Many a slip between the cup and the lip'. Right Sir? :)
 
Dear Sir,

Just believe 1. 'nadappadhellAm nanmaikkE' and 2. 'avanindri OraNuvum asaiyAdhu!'.

Belief 1 will make us think that everything happens for good; it has a reason.

(In the story, the man would have taken the help from the fisherman, who came first to save him.)

Belief 2 will make us understand that a Supreme power is ruling the world. This will make us humble!

(In the story, the man would have 'known' that the fisherman was sent by his God!)

Hence the proverb: 'Many a slip between the cup and the lip'. Right Sir? :)

Dear Madam Raji Ram:

Thank you for sharing your belief. Is that only your belief or most people believe that way.

Somehow surrender is then a belief. Kind of anti-climax because every religion has their pet beliefs.

My christian friend think that we are destined to go to hell if we do not believe in Jesus to get rid of some original sin.

There is also talk about ego, merging with god etc. So I am wondering if there are other reasons or beliefs.

Wonder what Mr Iyer thinks

Regards
 
........ 1. Somehow surrender is then a belief.

2. Kind of anti-climax because every religion has their pet beliefs.

3. My christian friend think that we are destined to go to hell if we do not believe in Jesus to get rid of some original sin. .........
Dear Sir,

1. Oh! Should think more about it.

2. Mine is a strong belief. :)

3. OMG! How can he say so to a-TB?? :shocked:

BTW, I think original sins (committed in the earlier birth) are punished in this life itself.

I have seen a few very good persons, who have prolonged suffering in their old age! :ballchain:
 
When someone totally surrenders to a benevolent person, the former has complete faith in the latter and willing to be absolutely guided by him. Since God does not directly interact with you, a total surrender would mean one has to be righteous which is what God would tell you to do. God men emerged for being surrogate guides and teach you how to follow dharma.

So as many think surrendering to God does not mean one is fearful about something but seeking help for guiding his life.
 
When someone totally surrenders to a benevolent person, the former has complete faith in the latter and willing to be absolutely guided by him. ..........
Dear Sravna Sir,

If you get such persons seeking your guidance, they are sure to be benefited by S E. :thumb:
 
That is great. God wants every one to become one of his whole. And that job is not that easy.Philosophy or no philosophy, rites or no rites, prayer or no prayer, the path is one to reach the one. Maybe these things can prevent or delay a person from becoming depressed.
 
"Why should a God, the almighty create all these beings and expect them to surrender to Him/Her/It?
What does a devotee surrender? Why does he surrender - because he is afraid? The whole 'philosophy' of total surrender does not make sense.
Somehow surrender is then a belief. Kind of anti-climax because every religion has their pet beliefs.

"My christian friend think that we are destined to go to hell if we do not believe in Jesus to get rid of some original sin.
There is also talk about ego, merging with god etc. So I am wondering if there are other reasons or beliefs.
Wonder what Mr Iyer thinks."

-- Sri a-TB


"So as many think surrendering to God does not mean one is fearful about something but seeking help for guiding his life."
-- Sri Srinivasan Vaidyaraman


My dear highly respected Sri a-TBNot being a "God man" (Sri Sravna's words) or even pretending to be one, may I, at your most kind invitation, say what I think?

The much-bruited-abroad word "surrender" has different meanings and shades of meaning for different people, depending perhaps on their perceptions of themselves and their God, on their levels of devotion and of sophistication, on their needs spiritual and material, even on their moods when using that word.

God the Creator does not expect anyone to surrender tn him or to anyone else. It is the surrenderor's decision.

First and foremost, surrendering to someone, a human, is totally different from surrendering direct to God Himself or Herself. Humans are fallible, even the Pope when pronouncing ex cathedra on faith and morals. Why else are there so many different mutually hostile and warring faiths, all claiming to teach and spread the Word of One Universal God? Even over-sensitive sub-sects of Hinduism claiming paramountcy? All led by humans but claiming to be messengers, prophets, even incarnations of God?

"Mea culpa, mea culpa," cries the devout Christian in the confessional, surrendering to the mercy of his God.

"Yeh Allah!," invokes the faithful Muslim, with tears in eyes, bowing his head till it touches the ground, surrendering to his chosen Almighty.

"Kaayena vaacha manasaa indriyairvaa budhyaa aathmanaava prakruthe svabhaavaath karomi yadyad sakalam parasmai sreeman naraayanaayethu samarppayaami," chants the Brahmin before prostrating full-length on the ground in front of his ishta-devathaa in total surrender.

The devotee is a devotee, I suppose, because he realises sooner or later in life that there is a Power greater than himself or his fellow-humans. He realises that he is weak and seeks the aid of this greater Power. His feelings of devotion deepen, his psyche expands to accept and to submit totally to this Power of his: he sublimates his own intellect, he suppresses his questioning, his rationalising, and his inquisitive human mind.

He surrenders. He unloads on to the Power all that troubles him.

It brings psychological catharsis, a feeling of relief, an emptying of the accumulated tension within himself. "No more my problem. The problem is yours," he rejoices. He is at peace. He does not maintain a one-man fight against the world anymore. He accepts all challenges with his head up, his chest out, for he knows that he has God on his side.

It is a precious personal triumph he has achieved -- opened up a direct communication channel to God. Any time. Anywhere. He is not cowed any more. He now has a solid anchor in stormy seas, a bright beacon in former mental darkness, a companion, a guide, a trusty confidant, a powerful protector.

Surrender is not a belief. It is a demonstrative act of one who has faith in a superior Power, in God.

Does "surrender" in the psychological sense, NOT the philosophical sense, make sense?

Thanks and regards,

S Narayanaswamy Iyer
 
Surrendering to God is a form of self deception.

Inability to face issues facing a person drives him to look for an imaginary God .

If it gives relief to him , he should feel free to pursue that path...

For me it is a big no no.
 
This thread is inspired by thread by Mr Prasad (I follow Advaitaphilosophy , but not comfortable with prayer).

Question is Why should a God, the almighty create all these beings and expect them to surrender to Him/Her/It?

What does a devotee surrender? Why does he surrender - because he is afraid? The whole 'philosophy' of total surrender does not make sense


Tried to have a serious conversation about this with someone here who has claimed to have surrendered to his God. Had to only count 1,2,3,4,5 - already he had hit the roof with frustration and went into attack mode hahahaa. So not sure that brand of surrender has worked for him.

LOL He is welcome to respond here LOL May god bless him !

Any insights? Is this surrender thing really taught in Advaita?

Logging here off and on randomly but will follow this thread if there are responses

Thanks

The three main vedic philosophies, imo, have tried to reason out the cause for the various happenings around us. (Why did they do this? - separate topic, perhaps). But these theories did not satisfactorily answer the random happenings that happen to people. Good things happened to bad people (am speaking from a perspective); bad things happened to good people. Something seemed to be so wrong. So the arbitrary happenings were attributed to a baggage brought down from the previous births. It is similar to a running account (in finance) where the squaring up happens up only when the sum total of all transactions is zero. If we assume debit is papam and credit is punyam, life will continue until sum of debit and credit is zero. Else, it is carried forward. Only hitch is that such concepts cannot be verified in all cases.

Random mutations later - since nobody knows what karmaphala we are about to enjoy in this life (we are constantly creating new kaarmic energies, perhaps to be utilized in the lives after !), it was advised to appease all the relevant navagrahas (as they are the phala dispensers) that the bad effects may be nullified. (this is like bribing a honest official who is entrusted with carrying out a certain task).

Under vishishtadvaita, since all the navagrahas report to the CEO, reigning in vaikuntam, they are of the opinion that instead of appealing to the lower level denizens, it is better to plead a case before the final authority itself. Since he (the CEO) is the one who can, if he so chooses, erase all the karmaphalas with a single stroke of his pen and neutrilize and sterilize the running account. Please note that if a person places a case before the CEO, then he has to abide by all the rules and regulations required of him so that the CEO may look kindly upon him. Whether this brings humility, grace, patience and love to one and all is not within the ambit of this discussion.

advaita is more about realizing the transient nature of our relative existence. just as the sweetness of sugar is present in water, it is about "realizing" the essence of brahman throught our plane of existence... and hence, there is no procedure to do a "force surrender".

------------

In general, those who somehow believe in a god, also believe that bad effects could be removed / reduced by appeasing to the god. The bad effects could be anything from passing a medical entrance test, getting a progeny, finding a groom/bride to obtaining a US job (now Trump has come between them and God) to cancelling the subsequent lives that are supposed to be endured by the "athma". This appeasement is a prayer in some cases and surrender in others. At the very least, it helps them to know that there is someone out there who can manage things for him.
 
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