I C and I R weddings! - Page 32
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    1. In LGBT, only the last category is God's creation (mis-creation??).

    Other three can easily blame God for their behaviour against nature!

    2. Being considerate to someone does NOT mean any marriage alliance with them!

    3. Brahmin parents DON'T go in search of I C / I R alliances.

    Many of them accept the choice of their children, JUST to continue the family unity.
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    "When the Heavens fall....."? Pray!

    More things are wrought by prayer than this world dreams of.
    Wherefore, let thy voice rise like a fountain for me night and day.
    For what are men better than sheep or goats that nourish a blind life within the brain,
    If, knowing God, they lift not hands of prayer both for themselves and those who call them friends?
    For so the whole round earth is every way bound by gold chains about the feet of God.

    Alfred, Lord Tennyson

    S Narayanaswamy Iyer
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  4. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by S Narayanaswamy Iyer View Post
    Ore inam, ore kulam. We are all humans. God created all of us.

    Manithan enru chollada, thalai nimirnthu nillada.

    We seem to have largely accepted, albeit with some reservations, inter-cult, inter-community, inter-ethnic, inter-cultural, inter-language, inter-varna, inter-jaathi, inter-racial, inter-religious, inter-national unions. We are proud of and even boast of our multi-ethnicity and cross-border origins.

    LGBTs are apparently also slowly gaining acceptance among us. God created them as God created all of us. It is not their fault that they are what they are, that they were born "that way". God willed it so. We should therefore show care and compassion,empathy, sympathy and understanding. We should interact with them, and integrate them where we can. They are not to blamed. We are (if we mock them or look down upon them).

    All fine. Are we prepared now to extend all this sentiment, mental attitude, and milk of human kindness to another group of deserving humans?

    Every year, every month, every week, every day, our male prisons, our female prisons, our detention centres for juvenile delinquents, our houses of corrections for wayward and runaway girls, and our other institutions of penal correction for offenders release into our midst, after they have paid the price imposed by the courts of justice, tens of thousands of former ex-convicts.

    They are in need of acceptance, of a second chance to re-integrate into society, of homes and sympathetic mentors, guides, counsellors, friends, company, identity, dignity.

    Are we prepared to stretch our sense of humanity and find for them spouses from among our sons and daughters, our brothers and sisters, our cousins of whatever descriptions, our uncles and aunts, our former school and university mates, our friends and acquaintances, our fellow-club members, even ourselves?

    Their alleged crimes might well have ranged from simple drunkenness, pickpocketting, theft, housebreaking, burglary, to manslaughter, abduction, rape, molestation, drug-trafficking, financial fiddling, money-laundering, unprofessional conduct. They might not have been convicted if they had had a good lawyer.

    "The quality of mercy is not strained," says William Shakespeare.

    Can we show mercy to these released ex-jailbirds, male and female?

    S Narayanaswamy Iyer
    Oh come on Iyer:

    You cannot lump criminals with LGBT?

    Animals also show gay love. There is a percentage of people in the world who are born as gay, lesbian , multiple sex or confused sex organs, transgender (man trapped in woman's body or other way around).

    People are born with one leg, no real hips, born with backbone bent so they move like a dog ..... All these happen in nature.

    All these people who dont fit your norm do not mean they are criminals.

    Mr Iyer - you have to open your heart to accept nature and accept people , you write intelligently ..

    Criminals can change - subject to choice. So they can be punished

    LGBT cannot change. They are people like you.

    Example: Gays: Just like you cannot become gay they (Gays) cannot become straight
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  6. #314
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    Sometimes what we despice is our own unaddressed internal battle.
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  8. #315
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    Dear highly-respected a-TB

    Sorry if I did not make myself clear to you.

    I was simply NOT trying to "lump criminals with LGBT". Any more than I was "lumping" those contracting inter-caste and inter-racial marriages with LGBTs. Far from it.

    On the contrary, I thought I had made it abundantly clear that by criminals ("jail-birds") I was referring only to those apprehended by the law enforcers, had had their day in the Courts, with learned defence counsel to argue on their behalf, were found guilty by the impartial and respected judges, were allowed to submit pleas of mitigation, were sentenced to terms of imprisonment in accordance with enacted law, served their sentences and, on completion, were released back into respectable society.

    Learned defence counsel might well have argued during trial in open Court that their clients were completely innocent, or that the prosecution had not proved its case.

    A very common defence I have met is one of "diminished responsibility". "God made me do it -- I was not aware of what I was doing. It was an act of God, not mine. I heard God's voice. I had no control over myself, and I just obeyed." Eminent psychiatrists were brought in to give expert evidence for the defence that the prisoner was insane and did not have the mens rea (culpable mind) to commit the offence. Close family members ere brought in to say almost the same thing.


    There are, in our generous and "inclusive" society, concerned souls who tolerate mixed marriages and LGBTs. Who accept the situation as one of reality, not to be wished way, or ignored. "Humans are humans" was the standard-bearers' slogan. "We are all humans and should not discriminate among us." Who can argue with that?

    All I was doing was to ask these do-gooders, these compassionate and selfless souls, to extend their compassion and generosity to ex-criminals. Especially those unfortunates who were hauled up without benefit of counsel because they were too poor to afford one, and were gaoled though innocent. Was I wrong? Deserving your censure?

    In my criminal practice, many were cleared and released by the Court unharmed because I was able to prove that the Police had "planted" adverse evidence, especially in drug and theft cases. Regret to say, I have little confidence in the integrity of the Police. Or in their strength of character to resist bribes and corruption. Their uniform seems to clothe them with arrogance and a sense of superiority.

    You write:-

    "People are born with one leg, no real hips, born with backbone bent so they move like a dog ..... All these happen in nature.

    "All these people who dont fit your norm do not mean they are criminals."


    Please be honest. Where did I say that the disabled are criminals?

    I have no "norm". E lsewhere in this forum I have written that no two people are alike. Even "identical" twins. As any Paediatrician will tell you.

    Are we "normal" when we lose our temper? When cheering our team in a game? When we discover that someone very near and dear to us has "cheated" us, been "unfaithful"? When through our negligence we have killed a pedestrian, a patient? When death suddenly takes from us someone we dearly love? When a kidnapper abducts our child? When an arsonist burns our house down?

    "Mr Iyer - you have to open your heart to accept nature and accept people ."

    Mr a-TB - Aren't you being unsufferably patronising and a shade judgmental in accusing me of closing my heart and refusing to accept nature and people? Perhaps some mature reflection might have helped you assess the true situation in a positive light?

    You contend: LGBT cannot change.

    Pray, with how many doctors and surgeons at the top of their professions and specialities, how many experienced psychologists, how many senior psychiatrists, how many trained rehabilitative workers in the SGBT field, how many Ministries of Health committed to the welfare of ALL disadvantaged citizens, have you worked with long and assiduously to come to this doomsday conclusion?

    And seen how they could, and did, with dedication and with co-ordinated and sympathetic industry, turn LGBTs around and wean them from their anti-social, anti-moral proclivities?

    You haven't, Sri a-TB. I have, during my long practice at the Bar.

    You do remind me, sir, of the lady doctor who, in these columns, proclaimed (erroneously) that

    "I have never heard of any bonafide doctor calling LBGT as a treatable pathology."

    Warmest regards

    Narayanaswamy Iyer


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  10. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by S Narayanaswamy Iyer View Post
    Dear highly-respected a-TB

    Sorry if I did not make myself clear to you.

    I was simply NOT trying to "lump criminals with LGBT". Any more than I was "lumping" those contracting inter-caste and inter-racial marriages with LGBTs. Far from it.

    On the contrary, I thought I had made it abundantly clear that by criminals ("jail-birds") I was referring only to those apprehended by the law enforcers, had had their day in the Courts, with learned defence counsel to argue on their behalf, were found guilty by the impartial and respected judges, were allowed to submit pleas of mitigation, were sentenced to terms of imprisonment in accordance with enacted law, served their sentences and, on completion, were released back into respectable society.

    Learned defence counsel might well have argued during trial in open Court that their clients were completely innocent, or that the prosecution had not proved its case.

    A very common defence I have met is one of "diminished responsibility". "God made me do it -- I was not aware of what I was doing. It was an act of God, not mine. I heard God's voice. I had no control over myself, and I just obeyed." Eminent psychiatrists were brought in to give expert evidence for the defence that the prisoner was insane and did not have the mens rea (culpable mind) to commit the offence. Close family members ere brought in to say almost the same thing.


    There are, in our generous and "inclusive" society, concerned souls who tolerate mixed marriages and LGBTs. Who accept the situation as one of reality, not to be wished way, or ignored. "Humans are humans" was the standard-bearers' slogan. "We are all humans and should not discriminate among us." Who can argue with that?

    All I was doing was to ask these do-gooders, these compassionate and selfless souls, to extend their compassion and generosity to ex-criminals. Especially those unfortunates who were hauled up without benefit of counsel because they were too poor to afford one, and were gaoled though innocent. Was I wrong? Deserving your censure?

    In my criminal practice, many were cleared and released by the Court unharmed because I was able to prove that the Police had "planted" adverse evidence, especially in drug and theft cases. Regret to say, I have little confidence in the integrity of the Police. Or in their strength of character to resist bribes and corruption. Their uniform seems to clothe them with arrogance and a sense of superiority.

    You write:-

    "People are born with one leg, no real hips, born with backbone bent so they move like a dog ..... All these happen in nature.

    "All these people who dont fit your norm do not mean they are criminals."


    Please be honest. Where did I say that the disabled are criminals?

    I have no "norm". E lsewhere in this forum I have written that no two people are alike. Even "identical" twins. As any Paediatrician will tell you.

    Are we "normal" when we lose our temper? When cheering our team in a game? When we discover that someone very near and dear to us has "cheated" us, been "unfaithful"? When through our negligence we have killed a pedestrian, a patient? When death suddenly takes from us someone we dearly love? When a kidnapper abducts our child? When an arsonist burns our house down?

    "Mr Iyer - you have to open your heart to accept nature and accept people ."

    Mr a-TB - Aren't you being unsufferably patronising and a shade judgmental in accusing me of closing my heart and refusing to accept nature and people? Perhaps some mature reflection might have helped you assess the true situation in a positive light?

    You contend: LGBT cannot change.

    Pray, with how many doctors and surgeons at the top of their professions and specialities, how many experienced psychologists, how many senior psychiatrists, how many trained rehabilitative workers in the SGBT field, how many Ministries of Health committed to the welfare of ALL disadvantaged citizens, have you worked with long and assiduously to come to this doomsday conclusion?

    And seen how they could, and did, with dedication and with co-ordinated and sympathetic industry, turn LGBTs around and wean them from their anti-social, anti-moral proclivities?

    You haven't, Sri a-TB. I have, during my long practice at the Bar.

    You do remind me, sir, of the lady doctor who, in these columns, proclaimed (erroneously) that

    "I have never heard of any bonafide doctor calling LBGT as a treatable pathology."

    Warmest regards

    Narayanaswamy Iyer


    Respected Sir,

    Just read your introduction and bio - Very impressive . Namaskarams

    While dealing with organizational counseling, discrimination issues in corporations etc I have a nose for people issues, racism overt or subtle etc. Have come across gays, lesbians etc

    Current science is that gay/lesbian is not out of choice. Am lucky to be born straight - cannot imagine any therapy to change me otherwise.

    Same is true for pure gays/lesbians - they cannot be changed. There are bisexuals to varying degrees - therapy can force them one way or the other. That is not really a cure because they were bisexual to begin with. Hard core gays cannot be changed

    Google search will yield lots of articles as to why gay/lesbian/transgender etc is not in the curable category. We are all wired in different ways. Please consider this possibility that this is genetic. Opening your heart was not intended as insult - it is to suggest to research further.

    Diminished responsibility is unacceptable in matters where free will is present and asserted.

    Thank you for your comments
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  12. #317
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    Respected Sri a-TB

    "Current (American, European) science is that gay/lesbian is not out of choice. Google search will yield lots of articles as to why gay/lesbian/transgender etc is not in the curable category."

    That precisely is the problem. Those not in the know are easily brainwashed by the American propaganda on these matters. One lie repeated a million times in all the American media, shouted at maximum decibels, does not amount to the truth.

    In the USA, the universal philosophy is that each and every one is free to be what he or she wants. "Let them be bestialists, let them be sodomists, let them be homosexuals, let them be child molesters, let them parade publicly in the Streets of San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, to flaunt their "difference". They are people, they are OUR people. Let them do what they want."

    Because of all this, once a dog barks that LGBTs are incurable, all dogs bark the same cacophony.

    Caught early enough, e.g. at a tender and treatable age, and given the appropriate treatment, medical, surgical, psychological, palliative and moral, care and compassion, many have been cured and returned to society, where they lead normal lives. I am an eye-witness.

    Where you talk only of ADULT offenders, they very well might not respond to any treatment. But these hard-cores are NOT our yardstick. We go after those who are not yet out on the streets, or caught by traffickers.

    Regards.

    S Narayanaswamy Iyer
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    In my opinion it is a generation blunder, which will affect the forthcoming generations.
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  16. #319
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    the USA, the universal philosophy is that each and every one is free to be what he or she wants. "Let them be bestialists, let them be sodomists, let them be homosexuals, let them be child molesters, let them parade publicly in the Streets of San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, to flaunt their "difference". They are people, they are OUR people. Let them do what they want."#317

    Harish Iyer and his mother Padma Iyer are our people Shri Narayanaswamy Iyer and should be proud about them!


    http://indianexpress.com/article/tre...-gay-son/lite/
    Last edited by Janaki Jambunathan; 21-04-2017 at 03:28 PM.


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    Respected Madam Janaki Jambunathan

    Thanks for the e-mail.

    A late marriage at age 36 to a woman at age 40 does happen. Will happen. Shows courage. Same with "caste no bar" unions, once mother and son go into it with eyes open.

    S Narayanaswamy Iyer
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