hypocasy

:wave:Funny are the reason given for not proceeding further to clinch the alliance after every thing is accepted upon Here in my experiance. My sons star is Moolam and I believe in Jathaga Porutham We had a proposal from CEO of a public Sector Bank for his daughter He told me he has lost all faith in Josiers and called them even Scoundrels and is not looking to the Jathagam aspect at all in wedding for his daughter He was so frusted about all these procedures Our josier found the jathagams matching and hence I started the ball rolling He visited us enjoyed our hospitality during one of his official trip to Madurai. He was impressed and said this could be clinched if the boy and girl agree after meeting and interacting in some place suitable to both and left for Madras saying he will follow it up I got a mail asking to excuse him since he may not procced further in this regard since his grand old Chitti is agaist a Moolam Varan and he doenot want my son to be blamed if some thing should happen to him after proceecing further saying that you should respect the sentiments of old people also!

I'm very sorry to hear this. It makes one so frustrated and disillusioned when this happens. I'm guessing that his daughter was probably not very keen or has someone else and the Moolam varan and grand old Chitti is just an excuse.

All the very best in your future alliances.

Sri Jambu ji,

As long as some of the belief exists, such odd circumstances would hinder progress.

In your story the CEO of a public sector bank was fed up with astrologers to the extent to call them Scoundrels and decided to go for alliance without horoscope match. But the poor guy could not make his grand old chitti understand the modern belief system. As well could not go against her.

I thing he worries much about his old family members than his own daughter.

If as a father if he could sincerely decide to accept your son's profile for his daughter than he should have planned something different, joining hands with you to bring the boy and girl close to each other. Than it could have been projected as a LOVE affair to his old family members. I think this ways both of you as parents would have been happy and the boy and girl could have get into marriage proposal.

If such comedy continues just imagine what would be the plight of boys and girls.

There are many such atrocities happening in our society that forces boys and girls to look for suitable match themselves, get into love and marry some one irrespective of Cast and Religion.

In dubai one of my Brahmin neighbor told me a peculiar story as well.

His Mama (uncle) was also working in Dubai for many year from his young age and than was transferred to Saudi Arabia. Being employed in Gulf, his parents could not find any girl for him. Years passed by just like that. At the age of 33 his parents could get an alliance who were prepared to marry off their daughter to a Gulf settled guy and the girl was willing to settle with her husband in Saudi Arabia.

I was shocked to listen to climax of the story. His Mama's (uncle's) parents at last rejected the alliance only because, the girls parents disclosed the fact that one of their son is working as a cashier in a wine shop.

Should that be a big problem for boy’s parents to accept the alliance??? That to a good homely girl for their Gulf settled son, who's character can not be know well by the girl's family....

At last his Mama, remain bachelor through out his life. Now his is 43 years old and working in Nigeria. He has planned to settle down in India by mid 2010 and do his own business and would remain bachelor for the rest of his life. Even if he get an alliance at this stage, he says he has won't accept being physically and mentally unfit to think of setting up a family at this point of time.

Are the Human beings with all the senses and living under some one's influence in every part of life (negative influences), really blessed to have a life in this world?

it appears, once again, that it is the boys' anguish stories are to the fore! does it mean that there are no equivalent girls' stories? or that we simply do not hear them?

one important factor, that needs to be kept in mind, is the march of time. the ticking of the clock, particularly for those singles after 30 is a disastrous time bomb re the biological and economical clock.

one does not want to start parenting in their late 30s and early 40s, for this is the time for additional children and nurturing.

for the boys & parents of the boys, i would strongly suggest to think out of the box. wait till 28 for same sect/jadhagam and all poruthams. till 30 for giving sub sects. till 32 for no condition among other TBs. after 32, throw your hangups to the winds, and look for a girl of compatibility and like interests.

i find that many of the TB boys are absolutely without skillsets to do their own spouse hunting. the next best thing is to advertise in matrimonial sites, on their own behalf, and keep your boasting and expectation to reality levels.

there is no need, i think, for all TB boys to be religious, god fearing, home loving, teetotaler, vegetarian, etc etc. it reminds of a line in a fashion show scene in miss congeniality, where every model for miss. world ends up her speech by wishing for 'world peace'. that appears to be the only characterestics that our ever perfect bachelors/ettes lack !!

Sri Kunjuppu Sir,

"i find that many of the TB boys are absolutely without skillsets to do their own spouse hunting."

I agree 100% with your above quoted message. TB boys lacked that skill for a long time, in my opinion. Sometimes I wonder did they ever possess such a skill!?

The matrimony market is really funny. The parents of the bride look for a highly qualified, well settled Ammanji; the brides look for an outgoing, well settled hansome young man, who should become an Ammanji after marriage. ray2: This is the market competition faced by the boys.

Cheers!

raghy,

i have this theory, and it is my and only my theory. not backed up by any scientific findings.

i think, we TBs eunuchize our first born, especially if it is a son. we heap all our expectations on this child, and also our hopes and desperation for him to shine before and above everyone else.

in short, he is our image to the community, and we all want an impeccable image, right?

also, in the process, this first born, becomes a nerd, and unusually dependent on the parents not only for key decision making, but also often for day to day decisions.

the wives of old put up with it. not so the girls of today. all the last three marriages in my family have been to girls, and though only one of them was arranged, the #1 stipulation was that it should not be an only boy child.

nowadays, with small families, we do not too many with more than one boy. hence we have a lot of nerds floating around, with no takers from the female side.

ofcourse, the public probably know of many many smart boys who had no problem finding a girl. so do i. but we are talking about a significant number without any fair chance. this is a new phenomenon, as such things did not even happen 25 years ago. had it been the case, i certainly, would not have found a spouse.

to be honest, i don't think i would have found a spouse in today's market, for if i examine my rememberances of myself in late 20s, there was not much going for me, except that i lived in canada, whatever that was worth at that time in the marriage market.
thank you.

kunjuppu said:

raghy,

I know this is to RaghyJi but i can't resist

i have this theory, and it is my and only my theory. not backed up by any scientific findings.

i think, we TBs eunuchize our first born, especially if it is a son. we heap all our expectations on this child, and also our hopes and desperation for him to shine before and above everyone else.

Along the same rational, does that mean TBs masculinuse our first born daughters



in short, he is our image to the community, and we all want an impeccable image, right?

also, in the process, this first born, becomes a nerd, and unusually dependent on the parents not only for key decision making, but also often for day to day decisions.

the wives of old put up with it. not so the girls of today. all the last three marriages in my family have been to girls, and though only one of them was arranged, the #1 stipulation was that it should not be an only boy child.

I've never heard of this before. I wouldn't mind a if its the only son frankly...imagine not having any awful sis-in-laws to put up with. Bliss

nowadays, with small families, we do not too many with more than one boy. hence we have a lot of nerds floating around, with no takers from the female side.

ofcourse, the public probably know of many many smart boys who had no problem finding a girl. so do i. but we are talking about a significant number without any fair chance. this is a new phenomenon, as such things did not even happen 25 years ago. had it been the case, i certainly, would not have found a spouse.

to be honest, i don't think i would have found a spouse in today's market, for if i examine my rememberances of myself in late 20s, there was not much going for me, except that i lived in canada, whatever that was worth at that time in the marriage market.
thank you.

Click to expand...

Modest as ever KunjuppuJi

kunjuppu said:

it appears, once again, that it is the boys' anguish stories are to the fore! does it mean that there are no equivalent girls' stories? or that we simply do not hear them?

one important factor, that needs to be kept in mind, is the march of time. the ticking of the clock, particularly for those singles after 30 is a disastrous time bomb re the biological and economical clock.

one does not want to start parenting in their late 30s and early 40s, for this is the time for additional children and nurturing.

Click to expand...

I'm sure there are many equivalent girls stories but probably girls parents/relatives dont use this forum or that everyone on here mostly has sons!

I have seen more and more people marrying in their 30s so much so that its so common where I live here. And having children after 35 onwards. Many people want to settle in their career and save up before thinking of having a family. My own cousins in California got married (to TBs) at 20 and one is expecting her first child now at 32.

It does appear at least in the West that many do want to start parenting in their late 30s and 40s. Some TB men delibaretly marry late because not everyone is ready at 20something. They want to study, "live life", work and then when they feel they are ready to settle with a nice TB girl they give their parents the go ahead or find themselves after "living life" (my eupehmism for sowing and oats etc).

hi folks,
i think i can define like this.. i may be wrong..so called
1,DHARMA PATNI
2,PATNI
3,WIFE
4, LIVING TOGETHER..
its purely my view like this.........dharma patni should have 8 qualities...
karyeshu mantri , karaneshu dhatri...asta dharma naari kula dharma patni...now a days in this fast modern life...i dont think there is no
real dharma patni with 8 qualities.....may patni available...in a
very limited number...WIFE is very common...means WORRIES
INVIVITED FOR EVER....next generation...just living together...
no dharma/no patni/even no wife status...without any conditions...
just living together...no com mitments/no responsibilty too..just 2 cents....its reality...

regards
tbs

There used to be ( I don't know if it is still there) something called " Friendship Contract" popular in Gujarat state, whereby a man and woman enter into a friendship contract( not marriage contract) and live together for one year or 11 months.

As it is only read-about knowledge for me i cannot give more details on this. any body who can throw more light on this?

I know a case of patni for visa get married in hurry to get into a county after due immigration formalities are over get divorce It is all legal for a price

amala said:

I'm sure there are many equivalent girls stories but probably girls parents/relatives dont use this forum or that everyone on here mostly has sons!

I have seen more and more people marrying in their 30s so much so that its so common where I live here. And having children after 35 onwards. Many people want to settle in their career and save up before thinking of having a family. My own cousins in California got married (to TBs) at 20 and one is expecting her first child now at 32.

It does appear at least in the West that many do want to start parenting in their late 30s and 40s. Some TB men delibaretly marry late because not everyone is ready at 20something. They want to study, "live life", work and then when they feel they are ready to settle with a nice TB girl they give their parents the go ahead or find themselves after "living life" (my eupehmism for sowing and oats etc).

Click to expand...

Dear Ms.Amala,


I agree with you....But the same with today's girls as well...I hope you will agree.

They want to study a lot, "Live life full of liberty", work and then when they feel they are ready to settle with a handsome, young, well settled TB boy, they give their parents go ahead or find themselves after "living life"

But one thing.....we all should agree...

How they lived life, only those boys and girls know and the GOD knows.

Some might have just struggled all the years and some must have really enjoyed their life in their own style.

Dear RaviJi,

I totally agree with everything you have posted above.
Please if you don't mind, just plain Amala will do or if you must Miss instead of Ms. Someone in this forum wished best regards to me and my husband!!!....I didn't realise I sound married

amala,

atleast in my then lower middle class extended family, with plenty of aspirations for upward mobility, if the first born happened to be girls, yes, they were subjected to a certain regimen.

the expectation of the parents fell squarely on the first born, and i still have first born female relatives, who have not come to terms of any relationship with their parents.

it is one of intensity, duty bound and done with a sense of விரக்தி. one of them, lived with an abusive but rich husband, who had an open check for all the expenses of his inlaws. knowing pretty well that they needed the money, the girl, the eldest of several, waited till all the siblings were married & settled.

the next day after the last wedding, she walked out on her husband, much to the chagrin and anger of the family. only i and a few members supported her, and understood how she had withstood the pain of abusive this long.

this is the moral of mid to late 20th century, when the family welfare came first. the younger siblings literally leached the eldest, and very conveniently 'forgot' or refused to acknowledge any sacrifice or help done.

there are several other stories like this, experienced personally and hearsay, in my extended TB family.

the other side of the story, is that current day younger ones, it is all for themselves. i am at a dismay when i see this, but, then times are better, and there is really no need for sibling support. the parents appear to earn enough to satisfy the aspirations, atleast educational and teenage wise, of all the children, and so, let it be.

re: refusal to marry only child boys. yes, it is quite a factor, in many of the varans that i have witnessed of late. the fear is that the son is an அம்மை ஒட்டி.

nowadays, i think, it is best for parents, even if they live in the same city, to live apart. it thus maintains their dignity, freedom and above all ensures that the young couple are facing squarely the financial and parental responsibilities themselves. later on, any deviant behaviour of the grand child, atleast would be their own fault, and not attributed to the 'corrupting' influences of the grand parents.

times, they have changed. and changed fast too.

amala said:

Dear RaviJi,

I totally agree with everything you have posted above.
Please if you don't mind, just plain Amala will do or if you must Miss instead of Ms. Someone in this forum wished best regards to me and my husband!!!....I didn't realise I sound married

Click to expand...

:laugh:

Amala,

I will neither use Ms. nor Miss. I feel, addressing you just Amala would sound good.

Please address me as well just as Ravi. No need to include "Ji". I am just going to complete 34 years on January 21.

I am a very young guy!!!!!!!!!!!! And not a samsari..... :dance:

C RAVI said:

Amala,

I will neither use Ms. nor Miss. I feel, addressing you just Amala would sound good.

Please address me as well just as Ravi. No need to include "Ji". I am just going to complete 34 years on January 21.

I am a very young guy!!!!!!!!!!!! And not a samsari..... :dance:

Click to expand...

This is soooo cute

Amala, since you are not married, see the last sentence - did you get the hint?

Best of luck

Dear Kujuppu
Your suggestions (Parents Live apart) are fine & possible till the parents are healthy and need no support what happens whenthey are crippled ? Dump them in old age home?
Jambu

Jambu said:

Dear Kujuppu
Your suggestions (Parents Live apart) are fine & possible till the parents are healthy and need no support what happens whenthey are crippled ? Dump them in old age home?
Jambu

Click to expand...

Sri Jambu ji,

I personally feel that Sri Kunjuppu ji's views are perfectly correct up to a period parents can look after themselves. My parents use to tell the same thing. They prefer to stay alone some where near surrounding areas where we could settle independently. Anyways now we brother came down to Dubai and have to settle down here.

In such a case and as per your important observations, It is the duty of a son to accommodate his parents with him and parents should try to be bit flexible and accommodative with the present generation family set up of their sons.

My mom used to say - "If we/I happen to stay withy you guys than I would be just bothered about timely food and a provision to watch TV. That's it. What ever you husband and wife do, we would be least bothered about. It's going to yours family and you people should live a happy life compromising with each other. We would not be interfering unless we were asked to intervene and help.

Now you people are very much demanding to me.

Let me have an opportunity to sit somewhere and watch the show-

"Indha kaala pengal, ungal kudumy ai pidichu aatuvargal":scared:

:help:

Jambu said:

Dear Kujuppu
Dump them in old age home?
Jambu

Click to expand...

jambu,

why would you say that?

maybe, i was not very clear. i meant, that let the children live on their own and set their own rules, re domestic life. after all, they do the same in the other aspects of their life.

the initial stages of a marriage are critical, in that, two strangers are getting to know each other, and adjust so that they can eventually build a loving home. atleast i would hope so.

the last thing, they need, is another parameter, over which they have no control. ie either parents.

when one becomes infirm, i would hope the sense of care and love takes over. by then, i hope the couple would have had years to adjust, and also during these years, the parents have done enough favours and support to the couple, so that a sense of love and affection has evolved, not from the indiviidual son or daughter (in law), but from the family of the young to the old.

jumping in like a முந்திரி கொட்டை at the start of a family relationship build, i think, will not work these days.

happyhindu said:

This is soooo cute

Amala, since you are not married, see the last sentence - did you get the hint?

Best of luck

Click to expand...

Your expressing what I thought funnily to myself--gives courage for me to clap in unison...

Like minds...Lkeminded members.. :horn:

kunjuppu said:

jambu,

why would you say that?

maybe, i was not very clear. i meant, that let the children live on their own and set their own rules, re domestic life. after all, they do the same in the other aspects of their life.

the initial stages of a marriage are critical, in that, two strangers are getting to know each other, and adjust so that they can eventually build a loving home. atleast i would hope so.

the last thing, they need, is another parameter, over which they have no control. ie either parents.

when one becomes infirm, i would hope the sense of care and love takes over. by then, i hope the couple would have had years to adjust, and also during these years, the parents have done enough favours and support to the couple, so that a sense of love and affection has evolved, not from the indiviidual son or daughter (in law), but from the family of the young to the old.

jumping in like a முந்திரி கொட்டை at the start of a family relationship build, i think, will not work these days.

Click to expand...

Sri Kunjuppu ji,

Well said.......:thumb:

My parents are of the same opinion...

Today's parents were yesterdays' new bride and groom.Todays' newlywedswill also become parents, and old individuals.

Cycle repeats, history goes on. It is said that" History solves all the existing problems putting forth a new one".

If there is broad space in minds to accommodate and adjust, then everything is possible.

There is a totally different concept of family life-"Kudumba Vazkai" between that in India and the western(especially the American ) views.

Indian view is "Aravanaaithu kondu vaazha" The other view is "Aruthukondu ,avanavanukkaaka mattum vaazga".

Due to the fast paced exchange of cultures Indian attachment is getting diluted and getting directed towards more and more individual freedom.In west it has gone to
extreme levels that , children go to court against parents even when they are teens,on silly matters, getting favourable judgements and compensation.
From whatever I read, ( extreme pedia laws)it has become a confusion how to express the affection to a child , as a wrong kiss will land the person in jail.

" Nallathoru kudumbam Palkalai kazhagam'.If space is not there , let us try to adjust finding next best alternatives.
Blood is thicker than water.

Greetings

sury,

personally, i think, there is no indian or american way. due to urbanization and job demands to upward mobility, the old rules of 9 to 5 job routine etc etc have changed.

till the 1950s, the usa too was a three generation family country. just as we are increasingly less so.

small two bedroom flats, for example, are not right place to have 10 people living together, especially when they can afford to dual accommodation.

why does, even the thought of living a few houses or streets away from grown up sons instill such fear of insecurity among the old? or those thinking old?

what has happened to their self confidence? do they not have the desire to do their own things? have they run out of causes, so that the only மோக்ஷம் is to live their children's lives for them.

all the wise talk, sury, about a good family and university, in my view, should be distilled and not be considered as 100% வேத வாக்கு.

i do not understand these old people, whose somehow think, that once on the verge of retirement, their job is to close their own shop, and plonk themselves with their children, whose sensitivities are never heeded to. within our culture, the children are so programmed to silence and not to talk against the parents, no matter what, that it is absurd to expect any honest feedback.

such feedback, if at all happens will be from the daughter in law, who forever will be villified.

i think this mentality is best consigned to the dung heap of history.

Sow.Sri.Amala,

"I know this is to RaghyJi but i can't resist"

You are welcome! Point of view from the girls are most welcome in this topic.

"Along the same rational, does that mean TBs masculinuse our first born daughters"

I don't think there is such thing as masculinising daughters. Shall we say, daughters are allowed their freedom of expression? But in reality, I have not seen that in my days. It may be different now, mostly in cities. In the olden days, when there was facility, the first born or the only daughter was provided with dance, music lessons etc.

"I've never heard of this before. I wouldn't mind a if its the only son frankly...imagine not having any awful sis-in-laws to put up with. Bliss "

I think, you are missing something here. Sister-in-law is an asset. In those days, sister-in-law meant unexpected expenses; not anymore. Sister-in-laws are not depending upon their brothers anymore. But like Sri.Kunjuppu rightly mentioned, a girl has to be aware of the psyche of the only son.

Cheers!

Sri.Kunjuppu,

"i think, we TBs eunuchize our first born, especially if it is a son. we heap all our expectations on this child, and also our hopes and desperation for him to shine before and above everyone else.

in short, he is our image to the community, and we all want an impeccable image, right?"

Your theory makes a lot of sense. I wish to add to that theory, please. With the first born, the parents lack the proper parenting skills. No matter howmuch we read, no matter how much we hear, the parenting skills come with experience. Due to lack of experience, I did the exact same thing with our 1st born too. But fortunately, I realised it well in advance and relaxed completely.

"to be honest, i don't think i would have found a spouse in today's market,"

No spouse would have found me attractive in any day's market!:noidea: I knew that. So, I took a club and hit the first girl who did not run away from me and dragged her to my cave and made a wife out of her! :first:

Cheers!