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No cremation done and no subsequent rituals done.

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My friend passed away a few days ago following illness.As per his wish, his body was donated to a hospital/medical college for use. There was no physical body available for cremation. He did not believe in any rituals too and hence his family decided not to perform any rituals from first day.Please advise if this is in order. Can they do a praayascitta karma for this act of ommission?
 
If the body is not available the kartha must burn dharbah grass and must do cremation and all other 13 days karyams. otherwise his pretha sareram cannot go to pithru lokam.
 
Experts on religious rituals can comment and answer the question.

Let me answer the question from the philosophical basis of the Vedas.

Cremation or how a body got disposed itself is not the basis for the prescribed Nithya Karmas. Sometimes people die of causes when immediate family is not available or the body itself may not be available.

If there is a son or a brother to act as Kartha, such a person can do the ritual hence forward (like Shraddham even if the full 13 day rituals were not observed), This is not to 'help' guide the passage of the dead person's Sukshma Sharira (as per say Garuda Purana) but do the ritual as their own duty to do their Nithya / Naimittika Karmas. By doing so, they are not going against the wishes of this person who passed away because the ritual conducted is for the benefit of the Kartha and their family.

While some of this practices is rooted in Shraddha, there is actually a reasonable basis for doing these Karmas. In the Philosophy section, there is a thread on Nithya Karmas that you may want to browse.
 
I have a question here.

The deceased had indeed decided that his body should not undergo any act of cremation as he decided to donate his body for a higher cause.

This shows he had a relatively selfless mindset and would be mentally prepared himself to move beyond the physical body finally..he surely understood that the body is merely physical hence his stance of not adhering to rituals.

So in such cases...isnt it better to just to stick to the person's wish..his mind surely understands everything much better and by doing karyams for him wont it be against his wishes?

Also a person does have his own Karma that would start kicking in upon death..so why should that in anyway impede his Preta Shareera to reach his destination.
 
I have a question here.

The deceased had indeed decided that his body should not undergo any act of cremation as he decided to donate his body for a higher cause.

This shows he had a relatively selfless mindset and would be mentally prepared himself to move beyond the physical body finally..he surely understood that the body is merely physical hence his stance of not adhering to rituals.

So in such cases...isnt it better to just to stick to the person's wish..his mind surely understands everything much better and by doing karyams for him wont it be against his wishes?

Also a person does have his own Karma that would start kicking in upon death..so why should that in anyway impede his Preta Shareera to reach his destination.
hi renu,

there are two schools thought on death according to hinduism.....ritualistic and upanishadic....ritual part is follow the

rules of vedas and do all thirteen day karmas...masigam...varshigam shraddham etc....the upanishadic..

the soul takes another physical body as soon as death occurs to the previous body....just karmaphala followed,,,

not any rituals required....as in bhagavad gita...removing the old clothes...putting into the new clothes immediately..

so the dead body is nothing to do with anything with SOUL....soul is different from body...so it applies...

whichever followed..
 
........ Also a person does have his own Karma that would start kicking in upon death..so why should that in anyway impede his Preta Shareera to reach his destination.
Dear Renu,

The deceased person has NO belief in rituals and we should appreciate his idea to donate his body to a medical college.

But, IF his family members believe in the kariyams, it is better for them to do, as per the advice of Sri. Gopalan and Sri. T K S.

Even for J J amma, her family did some rituals, after burning 68 darbha grass, to imitate the cremation of the 68 year old.
 
I would like to go with Gopalan sir's opinion here. In many cases where body is not available like death occurred plane/ship accidents and body is not traceable or person goes missing and family has reason to believe that he is no more, practice of performing last rites in this way is vague in our community. However here the person has chosen not to have a traditional funeral himself and people around have paid respect to his wish. On the other hand, it is also duty of a person of Hindu origin to do the pitru karma for departed souls of his close relatives. That's what prompted Great Bhageeratha to bring Ganges to Earth. So if some one wants to discharge his duty of performing pitru karma, he should be free to do it in a way as prescribed by our shastras.
 
there are two schools thought on death according to hinduism.....ritualistic and upanishadic....ritual part is follow the rules of vedas and do all thirteen day karmas...masigam...varshigam shraddham etc....the upanishadic..
The soul takes another physical body as soon as death occurs to the previous body....just karmaphala followed,,,
not any rituals required....as in bhagavad gita...removing the old clothes...putting into the new clothes immediately..
so the dead body is nothing to do with anything with SOUL....soul is different from body...so it applies...
whichever followed..

We are using the language that is available to us here in this world. Let us remember that. But things exist as they are and each one understands that depending on his situation and equipment.

The Atma leaving the body and taking another physical body acording to its karma phala is just a statement. The unit of time we use is perhaps seconds or minutes here. But according to ancient literature the time is not just the worldly seconds and minutes or even days and months and years. It is said that the Atma catches a ray of the Sun and travels at the speed of that ray vast distances to reach its pitr loka. This is perhaps the reason why there is a belief that it is better if the Atma leaves (the person dies) during the day, during a certain ayana etc., That should put enough doubt in our mind about the distances and time involved using our scales.

The mantras chanted during the antim karma has stanzas which mean that the eyes of the dead person are returned to a certain God, the body heat is offered to a certain other God, the mind to some one else etc., These mantras are chanted by the adhikari who does the karma. Thus the adhikari gains shreyas by doing a duty on behalf of the dead person. As the Atma travels from one loka to another loka at great speeds (by our standards and scale) we perform several karmas for the landmarks in that travel.

So the rituals are not just meaningless. They are to be performed. If the body is not available then there are alternatives given in the ancient scriptures and they are to be followed. That would do a lot of good to the relatives. But of course every thing depends on belief. To a nastic these are not addressed. He goes by the principle that everything comes to an absolute end with the system collapsing and coming to shambles.
 
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People who profess to know what happens to the Atma after death with certainty must live in an alternate reality. Let a departed soul return and explain maybe then we can understand.
It a guess at best. So what one believes is personal, and others can not understand it.

Beliefs even among "nastics" varies. Buddhists have elaborate beliefs about Atma, even though they may not believe in Supreme Godhead.

Billions of people around the world die, and no Karmas are performed for them. Does it mean that only Upper castes Hindus who perform Antim Karmas get special privileges for their departed relatives? It also adds guilt to people who believe differently. If one performs some "function" for societies sake, it is easy to then ascribe some mumbo jumbo reason for it. There will be gullible people who will swallow it "hook-line-and sinker".


Can they do a praayascitta karma for this act of ommission?

If you feel guilty and wants to apologize to the world (it is a show after all) (shed your crocodile tears). How does anyone know that there was an omission?

Just look around you, the world of 7.5 billion people, According to latest researches, 155,000 people die every day in the world.

Can we do praayaschittam for them all, after all they are all the same Atma, at least for Advaitins.
 
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<removed> Any way it is not my concern to address my posts to such "intelligent" vidwans. That is why I had carefully mentioned in the last para of my post that " But of course every thing depends on belief. To a nastic these are not addressed. He goes by the principle that everything comes to an absolute end with the system collapsing and coming to shambles." I think that should satisfy such super intelligent and modern ones.
 
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Beliefs even among "nastics" varies. Buddhists have elaborate beliefs about Atma, even though they may not believe in Supreme Godhead.
You can take a camel to water, you can not force it to drink.

Some people have to feel they are superior others just express their opinion as one among billions.
After mortal death, all organs are left with the body. The Atma does not care what happens to the remains.
It is rude to say that:
<removed as original msg has been edited>
 
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Not sure whether the discussion has veered into mere non-availability of a body to cremate, rather than the wider subjects of fufilling the deceased's wishes in their entirety, and what needs to be done on a person's death.

Let us re-state what the dead "friend" instructed before his end, in addition to donating his body for dissection and organ-harvesting. "He did not believe in any rituals too and hence his family decided not to perform any rituals from first day."

In other words, he ceased to be a Hindu even before death.

This is no different from situations where someone has turned permanently to atheism as his way of life, converted to Islam or Christianity, or some African voodoo cult, or some Oceanic practices such as those on the Islands of Yap, Borneo, and New Guinea.

Should the survivors still see the deceased as a true Hindu but for his ("overlookable"?) idiosyncracies, and carry on with cremating a "koorcha" or "pillu-kattu", performing anthi-yeshti kramams, such as maasikams, shraaddhams, naandees, daanams, asthi-immersion in Ganga and other fast-flowing sacred rivers, Brahmana-bhojanams, Kaashi, Praayaa, and Gayaa shraaddhams?

Even if they do, with all the bhakthi, shreddhai, vishvaasam, and treasure at their disposal, will his Aathma accept them? Does the deceased even have an Aathma at all? In pithru lokam? Vasu lokam, Rudra lokam, Aadithya lokam? Narakam?

With the utmost respect, the comparison with Bhageeratha bringing down the aakaasha Ganga to purify the asthi of his ancestors and elevating their Aathmas to Deva-lokam, Brahma-lokam, Shiva-lokam, Vaikuntam or other celestial abode is misconceived. These ancestors DID WANT those rites performed. Bhageeratha carried out their wishes. And incidentgally benefitted all of us.

The "friend" under discussion had before death distanced himself from all this "gibberish" (to him). So any rites or rituals can be compared to aahoothis performed on ashes instead of a blazing sacred samith-fire fed with pure cows'-milk ghee and specially-prepared havis (cooked white rice) and other prescribed homa-dravyams. Or can be compared to performing a great music-drama-and-song concert by gifted artistes to an empty theatre or before an audience of completely deaf people.

Let the pitiable man's spirit go where it will, do what it wishes, be what it wants to be; and let us not trouble it with our unwelcome importunities and unwanted, non-understood rituals.

Out of goodness of heart, the surviving family members, if they so wish for their own spiritual welfare, can feed the poor, feed the learned and deserving Brahmins, contribute to erect libraries, schools, hospitals, clinics, shelters, temples, and to renovate, improve, expand, and endow those already erected. They can found bursaries, awards and scholarships to uplift the downtrodden by society, institute travel grants to students to widen their perspectives, to establish contacts and return to serve the country better. They can even made donations for public projects such as roads, bridges, railways. public parks and gardens, water and power supplies.

s Narayanaswamy Iyer
 
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