• This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
  • Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Own Land vs. Foreign Land

Status
Not open for further replies.
JR

JR

Hare Krishna
JayKay ji and others (TBS),

Here are few points that I think is worth analyzing into, for concluding (IMO) that racism in own land is tolerable:

1. Ability to apply சாம, தான, பேத, தண்டம் with liberty.

2. More knowledge of the nature of opposing party. More contacts that could tap into the key figures in that party which is carrying out racist operations and facilitate mediation and truce efforts with the opposition.

3. Support and sympathy from general populace. More exposure via news media and thus increased ability to gather strength and support from one's own group to fight against racism.

4. Possible availability of historical data. There could be evidences of similar racist attack in the past, from which legal, governmental and financial solutions and support could be drawn.

Due to the above factors I think racism in own land is better than from West/foreign land. What do you think?

(Afterall, it is better to carry one's own பொதி).

Cheers,

JR
 
Last edited:
It is better to be burned at the stake, or face a firing squad.
If you are discriminated in your own land you have no were else to go, if discriminated in foreign land at least you could leave.

Discrimination of North East people in Bangluru is totally unjust. The people from North East have every right to be in Bangluru. Similarly discrimination of muslims in Mumbai is hurtful. The campaign against Tamils in Bombay in the 60 was wrong.

The discrimination in your own land is even more hurtful as the judicial system does not help you. So for the victim it is doubly hurtful to be discriminated in your own land. Of course we are talking of so called civilized world.
 
Prasad ji,

I agree you raise valid points! :thumb:

Nevertheless, one's feeling of having the rights to fight/to exist is a given in own land, whereas one feels meek in a foreign land.

The case of Devyani Kobragade: how she was discriminated inspite of being a top level ambassador in USA? She was denied immunity that her position granted her, was strip searched. In India, it is is not possible to lay a finger on someone in her level -- IMHO.

prasad1 said:
The people from North East have every right to be in Bangluru.
Click to expand...

Nevertheless, I will like to see others' arguments and will be a silent spectator going forth!
 
JR said:
Nevertheless, one's feeling of having the rights to fight/to exist is a given in own land, whereas one feels meek in a foreign land.

The case of Devyani Kobragade: how she was discriminated inspite of being a top level ambassador in USA? She was denied immunity that her position granted her, was strip searched. In India, it is is not possible to lay a finger on someone in her level -- IMHO.
Click to expand...

Being betrayed by your own country person is hurtful.
I supported that Kobergade should have been deported. If you go back you will see my vehement deference of her not to be humiliated.
But she made multiple mistakes. She did not have immunity (it was later created for her), she violated the law of the land. Indian government should have hired the maid to work for Kobergade instead of the maid being hired by Khobergade.
To selectively prosecute may be unjust, but that is the way it works, that is not discrimination.
Being an Indian Muslim being denied Housing in public colonies is discrimination.
I think you need to define your idea of discrimination. Nazi's killing Jews, or Christians being killed to Syria is discrimination. The black kids being gunned down in Baltimore is discrimination.
 
JR JI -

It is a deliberate ploy by some here to “derail” all arguments on racism in the west by saying - oh what about India... etc...

for eg, as we speak, there is a big news on CNN on the “pool party video – police officer resigns”, where as in the case of India, one has to “search again & again in google” to find out some cases that is also more a regionalism issue…

one doesn’t have to search for racism in the west – it is a constant daily occurrence, it is on the news every day…

some NRIs cannot accept the fact that the “dream land” they migrated to by bad mouthing India has suddenly turned “sour”, so they justify by telling – oh it is okay, India is also no better… etc..

LOL !!
 
Last edited:
By the same logic, Ford Foundation must be closed and all its employees must be incarcerated after full body search. They broke all the laws of teh land, worked against india's interests, played politics, and influencing elected leaders, and worked hard not to elect some.
 
Discrimination against northeast and against muslims in mumbai is all media hype and now thanks to social media truth comes out in no time. When a large influx of people from a specific geographical area or language or religion enter the labour force, there will some ghettoing and friction on irrelevant issues. It is not racism. We will face less of media and left instigated troubles if we accept praise and abuse indicated by the words - mallu, gulti, bangi, and chinki.
 
This is one case, and most of the incidents are minor, but whipped up by secular media and human right activists to fan the flames. The student was abused for not knowing kannada. I wonder how many of our indian emigres can mange without even a spattering knowledge of english. In south west germany, in an industrial town, I was asked to speak in german by an old man on the street. He stopped me to give this warning. Learning local language, blending with local culture without giving up yours is a must for all who try their luck outside. This is not a racist attack!!!
[h=1]Northeast Student Attacked in Bangalore, Allegedly For Not Speaking Kannada[/h]Oct 2014
BANGALORE: An engineering student from the northeastern state of Manipur was attacked in Bangalore last night by men who allegedly demanded that he "speak in the Kannada language or get out".

Michael Lamjathang Haokip, who heads a Manipur students' body, alleges that he and his friends were eating at a roadside stall when three men threatened and later attacked them.

"They said you are eating Karnataka food, living in Karnataka. If you don't speak Kannada please get out. We ignored them, but they took it as an insult. They picked up stones and attacked us and I got injured," Michael told NDTV, showing a bandaged head and blood-splattered clothes.

The 26-year-old, however, sees it as an isolated case, not enough to drive him out of the IT city. "I don't want to exaggerate anything. I feel safe, no problem. But I would like to appeal to people in general. Whenever such incidents happen, instead of moving away from the incident they have to be involved and settle the incident," he said.
 
The op in a way is misleading, If the term discrimination was used instead of "racism" it would be more meaningful.
Because discrimination in India is more based on caste, religion, ethnicity, region, gender, and age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_relations_in_India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrassi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_attacks_on_Uttar_Pradeshi_and_Bihari_migrants_in_Maharashtra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Chinese_Indians


Having been on this thread, i feel uncomfortable. I am not going to post in this thread.
 
Last edited:
India is still a poor country and people have been earnestly hoping for better days ever since 1947. Each state has its own peculiarities and, historically, there never was one unified India in which all areas were similar in regard to people and their culture. Hence the nation India is like a condominium and so, naturally, no people of one state will be able to tolerate people of another state coming in large numbers and prospering in their state. This is what is referred to as the "Sons of the soil" theory. All the instances (NE people in Bengaluru, South Indians in Maharashtra, Bengalis in Odissa and Assam and the other NE states, even Assamese in Nagaland or Meghalaya, etc.) are all due to this cause and many have suffered this kind of prejudice/hatred at one point or another.

This is not racism per se as we see in the US.
 
Jaykay767 said:
JR JI -

It is a deliberate ploy by some here to “derail” all arguments on racism in the west by saying - oh what about India... etc...

for eg, as we speak, there is a big news on CNN on the “pool party video – police officer resigns”, where as in the case of India, one has to “search again & again in google” to find out some cases that is also more a regionalism issue…

one doesn’t have to search for racism in the west – it is a constant daily occurrence, it is on the news every day…

some NRIs cannot accept the fact that the “dream land” they migrated to by bad mouthing India has suddenly turned “sour”, so they justify by telling – oh it is okay, India is also no better… etc..

LOL !!
Click to expand...

I have not interacted much with those from lower income groups here in USA. But my good friend has. (She is a divorcee who is doing some low-paying jobs). From her, I learnt that there is a lot of racism as you go down the educational and income ladder to meet with ones living in lower rungs.
 
Tamil's discrimination in Bombay in 1960s is due to the fact, Shiva sena or Bombay thought Tamil is taking away employment and also becoming a majority within Bombay. When people are afraid, their jobs are going to be taken away or they are going to become minority in their own land - they discriminate or revolt. Come to certain areas of London, you will see only people from middle east, asians or africans - no whites around. They are moving away from each of the counties around London - because what they think as culture, courtesy or their way of life is abused by the immigrants. One way is to discriminate or revolt and another way is to run away. Recently in lot of Chennai hotels, I saw more and more North east people taking local jobs - it is good if they are going to turn in gentle tamils - but soon they will spread their language, way of life etc - which may harm Chennai which is built on what people practised till now. With construction workers coming from Bihar or UP, crime also started increasing in chennai. It is best for herds of lions, buffaloes, elephants etc to live separately how they known to live rather than thinking each of they still hsa 4 legs, tail and mammals - they all can live happily together.
 
When the going is good & you are not in dispute, argument or misunderstanding everything is honky dory...The problem crops up if any of the above abruptly lands on your face and you do not have any other choice but face it squarely...The problems multiplies when you are not able to converse in the local language or you speak a primitive language (butler) which shows up your region or community...This is being experienced commonly by the people who are aliens in their own country!
 
JR Ji - Absolutely, the truth is there was/is widespread racism in the lower income groups & now it has started to spread everywhere. Even the so called democrats/liberals who voted for Obama are turning highly racist. However the truth is very uncomfortable for some of our NRIs. LOL !

Same NRIs who write silly columns in Indian newspapers saying Indians are the most racist, will NOT write the same thing in any American/Western newspaper. The whites will roll over & laugh their guts out about the silliness of this article… Let any NRI write an article on say CNN, CBS or Huffington post… LOL !

They will be shocked beyond belief to know that some NRIs are arguing that Indians are the most racist, when the entire world is “pummeling the whites for racism” including the whites themselves…LOL !

After seeing such “illacha vai pasanga”, they may even go to extent of saying that Indians are the ones who brought racism to the USA & the West !! LOL !!!

LOL !!!
 
Last edited:
vgane said:
When the going is good & you are not in dispute, argument or misunderstanding everything is honky dory...The problem crops up if any of the above abruptly lands on your face and you do not have any other choice but face it squarely...The problems multiplies when you are not able to converse in the local language or you speak a primitive language (butler) which shows up your region or community...This is being experienced commonly by the people who are aliens in their own country!
Click to expand...

Speaking of language, I remember being corrected for my english by my bosses. They told me to pronounce 'only' as 'O'nly. And another co-worker laughed on my face when I said 'bir-th-day' as 'bird-day' (that is how they say in india). These are only small incidents but I felt offended because they seemed to equate my 2nd language English with my educational accomplishment and thus on my professional capability and finally how much I am needed in America!
 
Last edited:
Jaykay767 said:
JR Ji - Absolutely, the truth is there was/is widespread racism in the lower income groups & now it has started to spread everywhere. Even the so called democrats/liberals who voted for Obama are turning highly racist. However the truth is very uncomfortable for some of our NRIs. LOL !

Same NRIs who write silly columns in Indian newspapers saying Indians are the most racist, will NOT write the same thing in any American/Western newspaper. The whites will roll over & laugh their guts out about the silliness of this article… Let any NRI write an article on say CNN, CBS or Huffington post… LOL !

They will be shocked beyond belief to know that some NRIs are arguing that Indians are the most racist, when the entire world is “pummeling the whites for racism” including the whites themselves…LOL !

After seeing such “illacha vai pasanga”, they may even go to extent of saying that Indians are the ones who brought racism to the USA & the West !! LOL !!!

LOL !!!
Click to expand...

I do not like the White-man's way of culturally appropriating anything good in other cultures that he sees!
 
JR said:
Speaking of language, I remember being corrected for my english by my bosses. They told me to pronounce 'only' as 'O'nly. And another co-worker laughed on my face when I said 'bir-th-day' as 'bird-day' (that is how they say in india). These are only small incidents but I felt offended because they seemed to equate my 2nd language English with my educational accomplishment and thus on my professional capability and finally how much I am needed in America!
Click to expand...

Dear JRji,

It is interesting. How do the Chinese and Indonesians grapple with this problem? Any idea?
 
JR Ji - appreciate your candid comments. yes, this is the reality, but many NRIs in this forum will cover up all this like the "pushnikai in thayir sadam". Infact when I read some of the comments on the internet boards after the ferguson riots, I was shocked at the "level of hatred" the whites have against us. clearly some NRIs are suffering the "Stockholm syndrome" after suffering such racist abuses for years & years. !!! The problem is that these NRIs are creating huge damage by misleading the other innocent Indians in India to migrate to the USA by saying it is still a dreamland (oops shakadai-land) blah blah blah...
 
Well..lets put things a bit differently.

Sometimes what we call "Racism" is just gross misunderstanding of another race or nationality.

When I was in India I noted that many traditional looking women used to think that virgins only exists in India!LOL

Really..most of them used to think that all unmarried girls in India are Virgin Marys and all NRI or PIO are De Virginized Bloody Marys!LOL

So a NRI/PIO would be viewed differently and always suspected to have bad character.

Is this a form of "Racism"?

Yup..in a way..preconceived notions that leads to "racism" of a weird kind..the Virgin kind!LOL
 
Not preconceived, but knowledge gained from sources which eulogise unfettered freedom, free sex, refusal to respect sane parental advice and hundred other indictators.
 
We all have racism or groupism in our mind, some kind or other, it may be Language, Caste, religion or nationality.
I have experienced this during my eight year stay in a gulf country. I had good friends among different Nationality and religious and language groups. In my Company where I worked, most of the employees were from Kerala, a couple of Abu Bakrs, Mohammeds among the "Kaka" Muslims and few Nayars and Christians. Nayar friend joked at Kaka Muslims about their pronounciation of Malayalam etc. I had another friend Akram Khan an A/c technician of Pakistani origin. Abu Bkr (Senior) used tell that we should not believe a "Pachai" - a sobriquet used for Pakistani. Similarly I had some friends among Egyptians. Pakistani Akram Khan used to caution me about the "misries" (Egyptians) as most unreliable persons ! Thus goes the groupism in human mind.

It is my view that where ever we live,whether inside our native land or outside, we will be treated as a second class citizen, if we have no root there.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
Last edited:
JR said:
I have not interacted much with those from lower income groups here in USA. But my good friend has. (She is a divorcee who is doing some low-paying jobs). From her, I learnt that there is a lot of racism as you go down the educational and income ladder to meet with ones living in lower rungs.
Click to expand...

The root cause of all the discrimination, bias, prejudice etc. etc., lies in the point you made in another thread. I am copy pasting the relevant portion here :

JR said:
I
Also I think that the instinctual nature of man is to 'rise above others'. The other forms of gratification acquired through pleasure seeking satisfies his basic demands of a human life, but when they are satisfied, his immediate next pursuit is to procure gratification through acquisition of name and fame for himself, to satisfy the demands of the 'self'. Thus we see individuals competing with individuals, societies and civilizations competing with others, countries fighting among themselves, etc.
Click to expand...

A human being wants to be a part of a group (sheep mentality) but also wants to be the leader of the group (lion mentality) at the same time.

So when there are too many lions in a pride, or when too many lambs think of themselves as lion, these conflicts will keep surfacing.
 
sarang said:
Not preconceived, but knowledge gained from sources which eulogise unfettered freedom, free sex, refusal to respect sane parental advice and hundred other indictators.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the mindset that leads to prejudice.

Why formed preconceived notions so soon without getting to know anyone in person?

I have noted the pet topic these days in Msia is females bitching about Africans ..saying 'OMG! I am scared to take my children out to the park cos so many Africans are there...blah blah blah"

So once I told off a group of such females..'but if it was a group of white males hanging out here..you would also leave your kids home cos you would want to run after the white man..so either way your kids only stay at home!"

Now the story of what NRIs/PIOs are told before they land in India.

Many of us were told to beware of Indians who are known to make friends for personal benefit and are materialistic and always want some "foreign" gifts!

But I did not really believe any of these stories when I landed in India.

I made friends with everyone regardless of their citizenship and I never believed any stories. My best friend till today is an Indian citizen..I have been his friend since 1990.

So why ruin chances to get to know anyone just by believing gossip but prefer to call it 'knowledge"?LOL

When we admit that our preconceived notion was wrong we can rectify ourselves to gain a better insight..but when we do not admit that we were wrong we only defend our ego.
 
Last edited:
Vaagmi said:
Dear JRji,

It is interesting. How do the Chinese and Indonesians grapple with this problem? Any idea?
Click to expand...

Dear Vaagmi ji,

In my last project, everyone around me was Chinese... AND A GENIUS!! Truly, trust me! There was this very complicated Software called 'Pentaho' and they were all like fish swimming in water in that! Genius demands its own respect and recognition! So that is how they survive without right English, I think.
 
zebra16 said:
The root cause of all the discrimination, bias, prejudice etc. etc., lies in the point you made in another thread. I am copy pasting the relevant portion here :



A human being wants to be a part of a group (sheep mentality) but also wants to be the leader of the group (lion mentality) at the same time.

So when there are too many lions in a pride, or when too many lambs think of themselves as lion, these conflicts will keep surfacing.
Click to expand...

Dear Sir,

I understand what you are saying. But in a 'nobody's land' or 'land of immigrants', why take 'ownership'? It shows White man's attitude in general, I think. They say they worked hard to build the nation, but who wouldn't have?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Share this page

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest ads

Follow us on Social Media

Back
Top