• Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

குல தெய்வம்

Status
Not open for further replies.
குலதெய்வ வழிபாடு

ஒவ்வொரு குடும்பத்தினரும் ஒவ்வொரு தெய்வத்தை தமது குல தெய்வமாக ஏற்றுக் கொண்டு இருப்பார்கள். அதாவது நம்முடைய ஐம்பது தலைமுறைக்கு முன்னர் இருந்த நம்முடைய தாத்தாவுக்குத் தாத்தா என நீண்டு கொண்டு போகும் பெரும் பெரும் பெரிய தாத்தா (இருபது தலைமுறையின் தாத்தா) வணங்கி வழிபாட்டு வந்திருந்த தெய்வத்தையே அவர் வழி வருபவர்கள் குல தெய்வமாக ஏற்றுக் கொண்டு உள்ளார்கள்.


அவர் குடும்பத்தில் பிறக்கும் ஆண் மகன்கள் மூலம் பெருகும் ஆண் வழி குடும்பத்தினர் அனைவருமே அதே தெய்வத்தைத்தான் வணங்கி வருவார்கள். எந்த ஒரு குடும்பத்தில் ஆண் மகனே இல்லையோ அதோடு அந்த குடும்பத்தின் வம்சம் பெருகுவது இல்லை என்பதினால் குலதெய்வம் முடிந்து விடும் என்பார்கள். ஏன் என்றால் பெண்கள் புகுந்த வீட்டுக்குச் சென்றதும் அவர்கள் அந்தக் குடும்பத்தின் குல தெய்வத்தையே ஏற்க வேண்டும்.

ஒரு தெய்வம் என்பது இன்னொரு தெய்வத்திடம் இருந்து அதாவது பரமாத்மனிடம் இருந்து வந்ததுதான். அதாவது உலகெங்கும் பல்வேறு ரூபங்களில் பல்வேறு தரப்பினர் வணங்கும் தெய்வங்கள் அனைத்துமே பரமாத்மனிடம் இருந்து வந்தவையே ஆகும்.

ஒரு வம்சம் என்பது எத்தனை ஆண்டுகள் அல்லது எத்தனை குடும்பத்தினர்வரை பொருந்தும்? ஒருவருக்கு பிறந்த மகன், அவனுக்குப் பிறந்த மகன், அவனுக்குப் பிறந்த மகன் என ஆண் குழந்தை மட்டுமே ஒரு வம்ச கணக்கில் வரும். ஒருவருடைய சராசரி வயது 50 என்றால் கூட அவருடைய தாத்தாவின், தாத்தாவின் பெரும் தாத்தாவின் காலம் என 13 ஜென்மங்களுக்கு முந்தய காலம் எனக் கணக்கிட்டால் கூட 13 x 50 = 650 ஆண்டுகள் என வரும். நம்மில் யாருக்காவது 650 ஆண்டுகளுக்கு முன்னால் இருந்த சந்ததியினர் யார் என்பது தெரியுமா? யாருக்காவது அவர்களுடைய குடும்பத்தில் 13 ஆம் வம்சத்தின் பெரிய தாத்தா யார் என்பது தெரியுமா? இதையெல்லாம் யார் குறித்து வைத்துக் கொண்டு வருகிறார்கள்? அதனால்தான் ஒரு குல தெய்வம் ஏழேழு ஜென்மம் அதாவது 49 ஜென்மங்களுக்கு அதாவது 13 ஜென்ம காலத்துக்கு ஒரு வம்சத்தைக் காப்பாற்றும் என்ற வார்த்தை வந்தது. மகள் என்பவள் திருமணம் ஆனதும் புகுந்த வீட்டிற்குச் சென்று விடுவதினால் அவளுக்கு தாய்-தந்தையின் குல தெய்வத்தை தனது குல தெய்வமாக ஏற்க பாத்யதை இல்லை. அவள் புகுந்த வீட்டின் குலதெய்வமே அவள் குல தெய்வம் ஆகி விடும்.

எந்த ஒரு வம்சத்திலுமே 13 வம்சாவளியினருக்கு மேல் அவர்கள் தொடர்ந்து வணங்கும் குல தெய்வம் இருக்க முடியாது என்பது தெய்வக் கணக்கு. ஏதாவது ஒரு கட்டத்தில் வழி வழியாக வந்தவர்களின் வம்சத்தினருக்கு குழந்தைப் பேறு இல்லாமலோ, அகால மரணங்களினாலோ, ஆண் வம்ச விருத்தி அடையாமலோ அல்லது ஏதாவது காரணத்தினால் வம்சம் அழிந்து விடும். ஆகவே ஒரு வம்சத்தின் குல தெய்வம் என்பது 13 ஜென்மத்துக்கு - வம்சாவளிகளுக்கு மட்டுமே தொடர்ந்து கொண்டு இருக்கும் என்று கூறுகிறார்கள்.





ஒருமுறை ஒரு தேவதையோ அல்லது தெய்வமோ ஒரு வம்சத்தினரை தத்து எடுத்துக் கொண்டு விட்டால் அதன்பின் அந்த வம்சத்தின் ஏழேழு தலை முறைக்கும் அவர்களே பாதுகாப்பாக இருந்தவாறு அந்த வம்சத்தினரின் குல தெய்வமாக பொறுப்பேற்றுக் கொள்வார்கள். அந்த வம்சத்தினரின் வீடுகளில் நடைபெறும் நல்லவை மற்றும் கெட்டவை என்ற அனைத்து அம்சங்களிலும் சடங்குகளுக்கும் அந்தந்த தேவதைகளும் தெய்வங்களும் மட்டுமே பொறுப்பு ஏற்பார்கள்.

குல தெய்வங்களுக்கு சில குறிப்பிட்ட காரியங்கள் தரப்பட்டு உள்ளன. அவற்றை செய்தப் பின் அவர்கள் தாம் செய்ததையும், அவற்றுக்கான காரணங்களையும், முறையான வழிப்பாதை மூலம் அவரவர்களைப் படைத்தவர்கள் மூலம் பரப்பிரும்மனிடம் அனுப்பும். அங்குதான் ஒரு கம்பியூட்டர் போல அனைவரது கணக்குகளும் வைக்கப்பட்டு அடுத்தப் பிறவி நிர்ணயிக்கப்படுகின்றது. ஆகவே குலதெய்வ வழிபாடு என்பதும் இந்த பிரபஞ்சத்தையே படைத்த பரபிரும்ம வழிபாடே.

Santhipriya's pages: March 2014
 
Last edited:
PJ ji,
There is one more term used as Vamsa paramparia Devada, Is it(He) different from the Kula deivam ?
Alwan
 
PJ ji,
There is one more term used as Vamsa paramparia Devada, Is it(He) different from the Kula deivam ?
Alwan

Sri talwan Sir

As the term Vamsa paramparia Devada itself means Family Deity or kula Deivam in Tamil.
 
Whatever is said & done, present day older people beyond 90 are likely to know the Kula Deivathin Peyar & location. Invariably, the place would be in a remote village area, where living older persons may not know stall anything about the same for confirmation.
Though persons like our immensely active Mr P.J. Is trying to throw some information in all sincerety ,yet one cannot take it for granted & pursue, lest we may be lost in our efforts
There are quite a few among Brahmins who, for reasons of performing /fulfilling the Prarthanai to Kula deivam, ( might have been told by an Astrologer) to ward off Either seriousPitru roshan orBrahmaharthi Dosham, want to know from livind/old persons , but only handful may succeed?
Ultimately, we have to take the God/goddesses being worshipped by the current families , which can also be taken as attained thePOWER as much as Kula deivam & perform require Pariharam sincerely & I am sure we will nave the same Effect.
We should agree to the rea.itythat these days even wearing Poonal is minimum, doing daily Sandhya is also RAre, can any one fight against the positive Deterioration in religious deeds, which I attribute to this Last KALIYUGAM, every day it is proved by the Newsitems, We are put to shame. May be that the Deteriornation of Brahmns is slower , but certain.
If we go on wring unreal/impracticals of this day ,it does not help .
I only try to tell the Known thing , Nothig NEW?
A.Srinivasan
 
What I have heard about Kuldeivam is this.
In a family linage a particular person in the linage is considered as a Deity and he is worshipped by his next generations persons and He becomes Kula deivam.It neednot be a Deivam as mentioned 'ஒவ்வொரு தெய்வத்தை தமது குல தெய்வமாக 'ஏற்றுக் கொண்டு இருப்பார்கள்.
Alwan
Alwan
 
Dear mr. Talwan, Worshipping a human being might have been there, it shows Extreme faith in a small circle of familiar families, but one thing we have to keep in mind is this :--Man is Mortal, meaning God is Immortal
We 8Should not over simplify matters, lest it w,I'll loose it's Sanctity, let alone proven Godliness.
A.Srinivasan
 
Village deities are the patron deities or grama devata of village. They that do not belong to the vedic - Agamic pantheon ofHinduism are found in almost all villages throughout India, Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu in particular. They are known as Kaval deivam or guardian spirits in Tamil and Kula Daivam or Local Village Gods. They are associated to a main deity who is generally ascribed as Kuladeivam by various sects of community and clan groups as part of the tracing their generation through centuries.
Source : Wikipedia
 
Yes, You are absolutely Right, in 40s and 50s I have seen any number of such Kavaldeivangal. I had enjoyed the Thiruvizha,s also No distinction of Caste. Brahmins were so close to every community person , Both respected each other so subtly, it was a site to enjoy. Heart to Heart even with mMuslim Elders. M,y Grand mother , orthod ox use to visit her friengd Muslim Bai ,to get Brass vessels, coated with eeyam. I used to enjoy tkheir conversation intently & it was like Brother & sister. No exaggeration

A.Srinivasan

tedwith eeyam. Ss
Els
 
"Ekam sad vipra bahudha vadanti" with respect to this shloka which means "One alone exists, Sages call it by various names".. God is one who is formless and we people worship him in multiple forms having multiple hierarchies and levels.
I feel the concept of Kuladeivam and subsequently kula deva doshams don't hold true when seen with above context.
:)
 
I find the concept of Kula Deivam sort of odd and complicated....somehow the Supreme concept of God is enough..that is just direct our thoughts the Supreme and that should suffice...why do we need to have so many stages of worship and get confused?
 
I find the concept of Kula Deivam sort of odd and complicated....somehow the Supreme concept of God is enough..that is just direct our thoughts the Supreme and that should suffice...why do we need to have so many stages of worship and get confused?

Bhakthi comes out of fear or favour! Very few have bhakthi diconnected with fear or favour! when you appeal for a favour as in legal courts you start with குலதெய்வ வழிபாடு - You dare not by pass him fearing he may become Kola Deivam instead of your Kula Deivam I am going this week end to Vaitheeswaran Koil to perform குலதெய்வ வழிபாடு!!
 
Bhakthi comes out of fear or favour! Very few have bhakthi diconnected with fear or favour! when you appeal for a favour as in legal courts you start with குலதெய்வ வழிபாடு - You dare not by pass him fearing he may become Kola Deivam instead of your Kula Deivam I am going this week end to Vaitheeswaran Koil to perform குலதெய்வ வழிபாடு!!


That way I admire the Vaishnavas to some extent..its just Vishnu and nothing else.
 
I find the concept of Kula Deivam sort of odd and complicated....somehow the Supreme concept of God is enough..that is just direct our thoughts the Supreme and that should suffice...why do we need to have so many stages of worship and get confused?


Probably OP is in Tamil, you could not read and understand it fully.

OP also says only from Para Brahmam many Gods including Kula Deivam are created.

All of us have a family Doctor, like that Kula Deivam is a Family Deity worshipped by fore fathers; when need arises we go to a specialist for further treatment , like that Hindus also go to other Temples for a Particular Pariharam.
 
Probably OP is in Tamil, you could not read and understand it fully.

OP also says only from Para Brahmam many Gods including Kula Deivam are created.

All of us have a family Doctor, like that Kula Deivam is a Family Deity worshipped by fore fathers; when need arises we go to a specialist for further treatment , like that Hindus also go to other Temples for a Particular Pariharam.

I read that...I do read 5 languages including Tamil but my Tamil reading is not at a very fast rate..so when everything is from the Supreme why go to other forms? Even in Geeta Lord Krishna says clearly that men worship various deities for favors but all the prayers reach only Him finally..so why not take a direct route to the Supreme?

Simple isnt it?
 
I read that...I do read 5 languages including Tamil but my Tamil reading is not at a very fast rate..so when everything is from the Supreme why go to other forms? Even in Geeta Lord Krishna says clearly that men worship various deities for favors but all the prayers reach only Him finally..so why not take a direct route to the Supreme?

Simple isnt it?


Kula Deivam is like Family Doc.

We go to a Specialist only when the need arises.
This kula Deivam is also a Part of Para Brahmam

Like Hindus have Many Gods, Kula deivam is one among them..

We all know that God is one, But we call it in different names, like Shiva, Vishnu, Allah, Jesus, and many more

 
Kula Deivam is like Family Doc.

We go to a Specialist only when the need arises.
This kula Deivam is also a Part of Para Brahmam


So we keep the Supreme as far away as possible from us and only "seek" Him as and when needed?


No wonder Lord Krishna said in the Geeta that One, perchance, in thousands of men, strives for perfection; and one perchance, among the blessed ones, striving thus, knows Me in reality

So if we ourself keep the Supreme away from us...I guess there is no pathetic state than this.

Your explanation of Family Doc and Specialist Doc does not hold good here cos it just seems that a devotee is only seeking God for personal benefits as you have clearly stated 'when the need arises"

So God is just being made use of to solve our problems it seems..the whole concept of God as being the all pervading is totally not understood.

If one keeps personal benefits out of the scene the Supreme is just right in us.

BTW since you said Kula Deivam is also part of Para Brahman..tell me what or who isnt part of Para Brahman?

That means I can also pray to myself isnt it? Solve my own problems too isnt it?
 
Last edited:
renukaji

If one has to go by your argument, only Sri Krishna is to be worshipped.
But we find through out India , many Temples for many Gods!!

Hindu way of worship allows worship of God in any Form, hence we have so many Gods ,

Kuladeivam is also a one such Form.
 
renukaji

If one has to go by your argument, only Sri Krishna is to be worshipped.
But we find through out India , many Temples for many Gods!!

Hindu way of worship allows worship of God in any Form, hence we have so many Gods ,

Kuladeivam is also a one such Form.

dear PJ sir,

If one reads the Geeta carefully one gets the impression that Lord Krishna was the Pratyaksham(Evident) form of the Supreme.

So He was only asking us to focus on the Supreme and He was not promoting Himself in anyway.He was playing the perfect Representative of the Supreme.
 
So we keep the Supreme as far away as possible from us and only "seek" Him as and when needed?


No wonder Lord Krishna said in the Geeta that One, perchance, in thousands of men, strives for perfection; and one perchance, among the blessed ones, striving thus, knows Me in reality

So if we ourself keep the Supreme away from us...I guess there is no pathetic state than this.

Your explanation of Family Doc and Specialist Doc does not hold good here cos it just seems that a devotee is only seeking God for personal benefits as you have clearly stated 'when the need arises"

So God is just being made use of to solve our problems it seems..the whole concept of God as being the all pervading is totally not understood.

If one keeps personal benefits out of the scene the Supreme is just right in us.

BTW since you said Kula Deivam is also part of Para Brahman..tell me what or who isnt part of Para Brahman?

That means I can also pray to myself isnt it? Solve my own problems too isnt it?


Yes God is all pervading seems confusing . If so why Prhalad never saw Narayana in H. kasyapu - Had he seen Naryana in H.Kasyabu he would have accepted him as Naryana from day 1 and there would have been no need for Narsimham to come out of a pillar!

Tell me - H.Kasyapu is or isnot part of Para Brahmam? In tricky situations like this Deivam may turn out to be Kolai Deivam!
 
dear PJ sir,

If one reads the Geeta carefully one gets the impression that Lord Krishna was the Pratyaksham(Evident) form of the Supreme.

So He was only asking us to focus on the Supreme and He was not promoting Himself in anyway.He was playing the perfect Representative of the Supreme.



Kula Deivam is also a Form of Supreme!!

There is no point in arguing with a person who argues for the sake of Arguing!!

Probably you wanted to test my patience and make me Angry!! No, I am not going to.. however hard you try.
 
Kula Deivam is also a Form of Supreme!!

There is no point in arguing with a person who argues for the sake of Arguing!!

Probably you wanted to test my patience and make me Angry!! No, I am not going to.. however hard you try.

dear PJ sir,

Everything is Brahman.

I am not trying to make you angry cos you are an expert at making your ownself angry!LOL

You can see for yourself that you got angry so fast with all the exclamation marks in your post and also the obvious tone in your array of words.

Its sad that you can never accept different valid views ....after all I was quoting back up points from the Geeta and not talking anything sans logic.
 
Last edited:
dear PJ sir,

Everything is Brahman.

I am not trying to make you angry cos you are an expert at making your ownself angry!LOL

You can see for yourself that you got angry so fast with all the exclamation marks in your post and also the obvious tone in your array of words.

Its sad that you can never accept different views ....after all I was quoting back up points from the Geeta and not talking anything sans logic.

I see no rationality in your argument; I am repeatedly writing All Forms are one God, and Hindu way of worship allows worship of any form , you go on and on..

Again If Sri Krishna or any other GOD is the ONLY GOD And Supreme, Hindus sees them in Different Forms and Worship, hence we have many Temples with Many Gods including Kula Deivam

Go on and on, No point in arguing with you. I will not reply to you any more
 
I see no rationality in your argument; I am repeatedly writing All Forms are one God, and Hindu way of worship allows worship of any form , you go on and on..


You are practicing Divide and Rule when it comes to God.

You claim Kula Deivam is Family Doctor..Supreme is Specialist and only when the need arises we seek the Supreme otherwise we consult Kula Deivam..and now you are saying that all forms are God.

If all forms are from God as you claim then we not just stick to either Kula Deivam or the Supreme..why jump from form to form depending on the situation of our personal desires?

So the fact remains that we are actually making us of various forms of God for our personal needs and we have the audacity to call that Bhakti hence jump from form to form.

OMG! Poor God...He is a victim of circumstance..I feel the more the desire of humans the more forms of God we see.
 
You are practicing Divide and Rule when it comes to God.

You claim Kula Deivam is Family Doctor..Supreme is Specialist and only when the need arises we seek the Supreme otherwise we consult Kula Deivam..and now you are saying that all forms are God.

If all forms are from God as you claim then we not just stick to either Kula Deivam or the Supreme..why jump from form to form depending on the situation of our personal desires?

So the fact remains that we are actually making us of various forms of God for our personal needs and we have the audacity to call that Bhakti hence jump from form to form.

OMG! Poor God...He is a victim of circumstance..I feel the more the desire of humans the more forms of God we see.

I make it a point to go to my remote, far from modern civilization, decrepit, agricultural, small village at least once in a year. I do that to go and pray before the Navaneetha Krishna deity in the small temple there. Every time I stand before that deity I feel small and humble. When I remember that it is the deity before which I had stood as a young boy and ardently prayed for a few more marks in class exams, I laugh at my "folly" and also feel sad that I have lost all that innocence with the load of "knowledge" and "experience" that I have accumulated. I wonder whether I would ever be able to jettison all that load and go back to that beautiful innocence.

When I stand before that God and recite,

நின்னருளாங்கதியன்றி மற்றொன்றில்லேன்,
நெடுங்காலம் பிழை செய்த நிலை கழிந்தேன்,
உன்னருளுக்கினிதான நிலையுகந்தேன்,
உன்சரணே சரண் என்னும் துணிவு பூண்டேன்,
மன்னிருளாய் நின்ற நிலை எனக்குத்தீர்த்து,
வானவர்தம் வாழ்ச்சி தர வரித்தேன் உன்னை,
இன்னருளால் இனியெனக்கோர் பரம் ஏற்றாமல்
எந்திருமால் அடைக்கலம் கொள் என்னை நீயே.

I pray for that beautiful and carefree innocence that comes with the surrender.

When I stand before that deity I also remember that many generations of my ancestors stood where I stood and had prayed like me and surrendered to that deity. That is something special for me. Shall I call that Navaneetha Krishna my kuladeivam?

We have ishta deivam, kaval deivam, ellai deivam, kula deivam and what not. It is all just our convenience. What is actually meant is just the deivam.

Those who have no time or inclination to understand the version "UC" or the version beyond that "kalyana gunaarnavam" have to have something to pray to. Kuladeivam gives them that extra closeness to a deity which perhaps makes them cross the hurdle and mental block to get closer quickly.

So Navaneetha Krishna can be a kuladeivam for some as well as the object of para bhakti, parajnaana, paramabhakthi for some one else.

No need to dispute and argue.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest ads

Back
Top