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... and here is a contrarian view of tambrams of tamil nadu

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K

kunjuppu

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i like this guy's views and am a long term fan. he is a non brahmin tamil FC, and this is another thoughtful article, in response to badri's TOI op ed.

Badri Seshadri's Brahminical Angst Meets Neo-Nazi Lynching and Stereotyping (pro and anti)

of late, i have been thinking, the best thing i did, was to leave india. even though a pattar brought up in madras, i could not see living in kerala or in tamil nadu and having children. my own views did not matter, in a caste obsessed society, and i did not want to pass this burden of being a 'brahmin' kid to my children.

in that context, i am relieved, that my children are proud canadians and do not have the mindset of caste, which i think, is causing today, more damage, to the tamil brahmins than any other community in india. insomuch, only we, cannot proudly say that our state is our succour and sanctuary. for that we would have to go elsewhere.

a very good article.
 
actually every brahmin family is settling down in other countries- not because they hate caste feelings in tamilnadu and kerala but because their job opportunities are more and better life, education, facilities to enjoy life is more. By this our culture vedic ideas purana feelings god fearing acts are coming to an end- indian american or canadian marry American indian or canadian- form a separate living style - of course at times more devoted, praying in that style, having parties of our style and foreign style- And best part is marriages- caste or creed no bar- luckily man marrying woman mostly and bring out a new set of people- following nothing No doubt as our puranas say another Pralayam ( great tsunami) is expected to destroy all such and start Hinduism once again Thank God I am nearing 80 and may not survive to see such
 
reading this articles posted by you, I shudder to think what would have happened if I had been

born or lived in tamilnadu.

I share your sentiment that we are better off thousands of kilometres away from tamilnadu
 
I too share the sentiment expressed by op and Krishji.
But majority of TB are still living in Tamil Nadu and prospering. So instead of being negative, we should hear from them.
 
hi

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. "
"தேச பக்தி என்பது அயோக்கியனின் கடைசிப் புகலிடம்." - [ஜான்சன்]

i like these words from the above quote....just info...my grand father was a police inspector in british raj....he retired even in the

british period.....he never worked under independent india....my father was gandhi vadhi/comgress supporter...he hates british rule and served

in independent india....both are very different in nature....but i like my grand father's sincerity/loyalty/intergrity.....

it was never had in my father....he likes freedom without responsibility....so i agreed ....

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. "
"தேச பக்தி என்பது அயோக்கியனின் கடைசிப் புகலிடம்." - [ஜான்சன்]
 
prasad1 said:
I too share the sentiment expressed by op and Krishji.
But majority of TB are still living in Tamil Nadu and prospering. So instead of being negative, we should hear from them.
Click to expand...
I had the first contact with tamilnadu when my children got admitted to anna univ. though brahmins, they got admission because of outside state quota in a not so good branch of engg.

in their branch of about 50 students, only one state brahmin could get admission. they could top their classes as they were CBSE students.there is great difference in standards of local board and CBSE. the first year foundation courses were repetitions of what they had learned in school. so they were totally bored in relearning what they had learned before.they had ample time for other things as college could not get them engaged fully. they were most happy to get away from tamilnadu after graduation .both would not like to settle in that state .they have bad experience of caste based outlook in everything .
I too consider myself lucky . I prefer delhi and bangalore to chennai. of course I do not know how long would kannadigas tolerate us. tamils are considered harmless in delhi. I do not kow what future holds for tamil brahmans in india and abroad. we could be truly compared to jews or the nomads
 
TBs in Tamil Nadu / South are doing extremely well & they are carrying the 1000s of centuries of tradition very well. To those who justify their existence outside of TN/South by saying anti-brahmin sentiment blah, blah, blah, etc… it is nothing compared to the gory racism in the USA/West.

On the contrary, those who have left TN/South are the ones so called broad minded/ cosmopolitan folks bereft of any traditions, culture, religious moorings.

And these people spend decades bashing Tamil Nadu if one is North based, bashing Tamil Nadu & India if one is a PIO, in their silly little circles which have no significance to people here.

In the process all their kids have lost the great traditions of our Brahmin ancestors due to the silliness of the parents who spent decades bashing all that is good !!

Oh, I wonder why they come to this site after spending decades trying to be broad minded, cosmopolitan, westernized blah, blah, blah,…etc. feeling guilty ? eh, ??

LOL !!
 
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The blog carried so many areas with pro and anti thinking.

Instead of blaming others, it is time for us to review critically our tendencies in helping fellow brahmins. Being an ex-employee of a PSU, I noticed so many Bs having their close relatives working there, mostly thru recommendations - brothers, sisters, sister > brother > athimber, sinster in law - so on and so forth.

If a B occupies a powerful position, he / she must think in terms giving an opportunity to a B from a poor background. This is generally not happening. One of the reasons is Bs are mostly self-centered.

We must come out of this self-centered mindset, if at all we are really interested in our community welfare.
 
chandruji
there is no particular reason why brahmins cannot help others, relatives or not.

reaching out to others requires a temperament we can easily cultivate.

if we can reach out to relatives , why not to others also?

most jobs are got only through bonding in facebook or linked in or such sites.

even old school or college ties help.

in fact most job are got on this basis.

brahmin sites can help in bonding people for jobs abroad . why not?

if I try to offer even a small assignment for money, many would be afraid of taking it fearing the

risks and consequences. that is the brahmin mindset.lol
 
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Brahmins do help others in need...But as a community we have a hesitation in sharing our need..That is the main problem...

As regards the blog it tries to be a fair representation of the issues faced by the community..The vilification in media, lack of political power, hardly any seats in Medical, less opportunities in good colleges ..Many of us have taken sanctum in Hindutva...Not sure if the amalgamation of castes in Hindutva will help us to overcome the obstacles that we face in Tamil Nadu! Hope so!
 
auh said:
The article presents a balanced view.. imo.
Click to expand...

i think so too auh. i do not believe in anyone being 100% good or bad. life is all grey, with various shades, depending on where you stand.

there are still a good number of prosperous tambrams in chennai and in urban tamil nadu. doing extremely well either in business or professions. those have no issues living in tamil nadu or neither will their kids. infact those kids will probably marry among the dominant castes as is evidenced in both india cements and hindu newspaper families. nothing binds power like marriage.

it is the weaker economic strata that i am thinking about. we used to know a mami who put her only son through engineering college, making appalams, and helping out for functions. once he graduated, he immediately started looking for jobs abroad, and after a while, found one in singapore. today, the mami/mama are comfortably perched in a quality high rise in mylapore, while the son/family are settled in singpo.

this is what i meant ie for the sons of lower economic brahmins, who formerly would have depended on education for upward mobility, have found this door closed in tamil nadu. but i always feel, that when one door closes, another opens.

it is amazing that the number of us in commerce. right from solely employed auditors to startups in I.T. we have branched out.

still, badri seshadri, whom i follow and respect, felt the need to express his angst openly. coming from badri, who took over/runs the kizhakku pathippagam, one of the foremost tamil publishing houses, and who is very active in the tamil literary scene, and who probably knows just about everyone to know in tamildom...something must have pushed the last straw on the camel's back.

a while ago, asokamitran expressed similar sentiments. we can live with prejudices, as everyone, i believe is defined by his/her prejudices. but everyone needs a place to call home, where the society is friendly to him.

i do not have any other deeper or ulterior motive for this thread. thank you.
 
kunjuppu said:
i think so too auh. i do not believe in anyone being 100% good or bad. life is all grey, with various shades, depending on where you stand.

there are still a good number of prosperous tambrams in chennai and in urban tamil nadu. doing extremely well either in business or professions. those have no issues living in tamil nadu or neither will their kids. infact those kids will probably marry among the dominant castes as is evidenced in both india cements and hindu newspaper families. nothing binds power like marriage.

it is the weaker economic strata that i am thinking about. we used to know a mami who put her only son through engineering college, making appalams, and helping out for functions. once he graduated, he immediately started looking for jobs abroad, and after a while, found one in singapore. today, the mami/mama are comfortably perched in a quality high rise in mylapore, while the son/family are settled in singpo.

this is what i meant ie for the sons of lower economic brahmins, who formerly would have depended on education for upward mobility, have found this door closed in tamil nadu. but i always feel, that when one door closes, another opens.

it is amazing that the number of us in commerce. right from solely employed auditors to startups in I.T. we have branched out.

still, badri seshadri, whom i follow and respect, felt the need to express his angst openly. coming from badri, who took over/runs the kizhakku pathippagam, one of the foremost tamil publishing houses, and who is very active in the tamil literary scene, and who probably knows just about everyone to know in tamildom...something must have pushed the last straw on the camel's back.

a while ago, asokamitran expressed similar sentiments. we can live with prejudices, as everyone, i believe is defined by his/her prejudices. but everyone needs a place to call home, where the society is friendly to him.

i do not have any other deeper or ulterior motive for this thread. thank you.
Click to expand...
hi

material prosperity is different...emotional bindings are very differnent.....like us many settled in usa/canada/uk/singapore etc....

some are lived more 50 yrs in western countries....still they miss something in life....from low class tambram families moved

and florished a lot....economical cannot give happiness bench mark....but of course comfort level increased due to material

benefits....still many miss tamil nadu/palakkad life....even some brahmins are doing very well in tamil nadu/kerala....we cant

deny it.....
 
tbs said:
still many miss tamil nadu/palakkad life....even some brahmins are doing very well in tamil nadu/kerala....we cant

deny it.....
Click to expand...

tbs,

i can only speak for myself. my family for 4 generations which is as far as i can trace, has no ties to the land. my grandfather left chathapuram to bombay after 10th class, to work as a clerk.

my dad was born posthumous, and grew up in badagara, and eked out his living in madras. mom came from badagara too. both never felt completely at home in madras, but never felt homesick for badagara either.

dad's philosophy was 'when in rome be like a roman'. so we tried our best to be tamils, to an extent, that dad actively discouraged my malayam accented tamil, which came to the fore, after each summer vacation.

for a brief period, in my teens, after reading ponniyin selvan, i felt, like a 'tamilian', but never like my tambram friends who came from chinglepet or swamimalai - my close friends.

something equally surprising, with my ageing, i am becoming even more open to things, that i was not, when i was young. marriages, are the most powerful tools to propagate caste from one generation to another. i have no faith it, and to that extension, my children have been told that (& what they wanted) was to marry whom they wished. with that probably, milleniums of supposedly unbroken clan will end with me. so be it.

i have moved on to canada, and my children feel very canadian. i am at peace here. thanks to the net, i am uptodate with whatever interests i have.

as we age, we need to pick up something new, i think. my father turned to religion, more ayyappan oriented. i have turned to tamil literature, an interest, re kindled by chance, and constantly effervesced by facebook and youtube, where i get excellent narrations of tamil literature by nellai kannan and others.

i can understand people feeling homesick. my own maternal cousin family are gatekeepers of the kalpathi temple, and in their house, the annual car festival attendance is a must. now carried to the third generation. i have no such feelings, and each time i visit chennai, it is more a fascination with the change, and not what it ever was.

dispassionately looking at my attitudes, i feel, that i can live anywhere, what with a few books to keep me company. and food that i am able to cook myself. in that way, spending a couple of months a year, in chennai, just for the so many tamil literary talks and meetings would be nice.

otherwise the attitude is, go where the job is. have told my kids the same thing. their skillsets are in their head. as long as they can transfer themselves, to where they can manage a living, there should be no fear.

after all, சோறு இருக்குமிடம் சொற்கலோகம் !! isn't it not? :)
 
kunjuppu said:
tbs,

i can only speak for myself. my family for 4 generations which is as far as i can trace, has no ties to the land. my grandfather left chathapuram to bombay after 10th class, to work as a clerk.

my dad was born posthumous, and grew up in badagara, and eked out his living in madras. mom came from badagara too. both never felt completely at home in madras, but never felt homesick for badagara either.

dad's philosophy was 'when in rome be like a roman'. so we tried our best to be tamils, to an extent, that dad actively discouraged my malayam accented tamil, which came to the fore, after each summer vacation.

for a brief period, in my teens, after reading ponniyin selvan, i felt, like a 'tamilian', but never like my tambram friends who came from chinglepet or swamimalai - my close friends.

something equally surprising, with my ageing, i am becoming even more open to things, that i was not, when i was young. marriages, are the most powerful tools to propagate caste from one generation to another. i have no faith it, and to that extension, my children have been told that (& what they wanted) was to marry whom they wished. with that probably, milleniums of supposedly unbroken clan will end with me. so be it.

i have moved on to canada, and my children feel very canadian. i am at peace here. thanks to the net, i am uptodate with whatever interests i have.

as we age, we need to pick up something new, i think. my father turned to religion, more ayyappan oriented. i have turned to tamil literature, an interest, re kindled by chance, and constantly effervesced by facebook and youtube, where i get excellent narrations of tamil literature by nellai kannan and others.

i can understand people feeling homesick. my own maternal cousin family are gatekeepers of the kalpathi temple, and in their house, the annual car festival attendance is a must. now carried to the third generation. i have no such feelings, and each time i visit chennai, it is more a fascination with the change, and not what it ever was.

dispassionately looking at my attitudes, i feel, that i can live anywhere, what with a few books to keep me company. and food that i am able to cook myself. in that way, spending a couple of months a year, in chennai, just for the so many tamil literary talks and meetings would be nice.

otherwise the attitude is, go where the job is. have told my kids the same thing. their skillsets are in their head. as long as they can transfer themselves, to where they can manage a living, there should be no fear.

after all, சோறு இருக்குமிடம் சொற்கலோகம் !! isn't it not? :)
Click to expand...
hi

thanks.....still we feel this is our homeland....we are paradesi.....உடம்பால ஓட்டினாலும்....உள்ளதால் ஓட்ட முடியாது....

still no regrets.....இது விரும்பி சுமந்த பாரம்.....
 
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kunjuppu said:
otherwise the attitude is, go where the job is. have told my kids the same thing. their skillsets are in their head. as long as they can transfer themselves, to where they can manage a living, there should be no fear.

:)
Click to expand...
Well written post.
 
rare moment of revelation from kunjuppuji

now tamils in south india will understand why tamils sometimes visit tamilnadu when they have left

the same banking on their skill sets for a better living elsewhere in the world years ago
 
What a sad compromise!!. If humans only wanted jobs &money, there would have been NO need for religion, culture, traditions..

Like how we need food for the body, we need religion,philosophy, culture & traditions for our Soul. what purpose is served by teaching Kids onlyto go find a Job ? They should we well rounded with an excellent knowledge ofour philosophy, scriptures etc…

Clearly all those who moved out of TN & South ingeneral have lost the most precious in the process & the impact is farhigher on the Kids since they have completely lost touch with our richtraditions.

And why would people feel the need to come to this site& spend time?. Imagine if the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] generation is feeling so much déjàvu, what will be the impact on the Kids who are neither here nor there. theywill NOT be accepted by the Whites in all eternity, so they will be secondclass for ever. They will be blaming their parents all their lives.

This is where I have the utmost admiration to the Malayalis& similarly to the NB Tamils & Kannadigas who went in droves to middleeast/other countries seeking work, everyone of them comes back & buys ahome here & they relocate back without fail after their work career isover. They go abroad, make money & come back to settle here!!

To the PIOS – I am NOT trying to put you all down here. Allthe other people on this forum should understand what is the long term impact ofmoving away from our home town & settling abroad. They will then realize& not NOT push their kids to go abroad, instead seek jobs here in TN. Every life experience is a learning for others& that’s how we improve as a community.
 
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not many want religion,culture, traditions at the cost of jobs and money.

these are the basics for good living

without these, religion, culture ,traditions have no meaning.

poor in the country change their religion for a few loaves of bread.

middle class get away from tradition and caste for material prosperity and well being.

culture is for the rich and the privileged , not for the slum dwellers.

TO tell people to stay rooted to tamilnadu facing discrimination,deprivation and suffer denial of

oppurtunities will not find many takers.
 
Also why would we want our kids to be like an American orCanadian or what ever? Talk like them, behave like them ? for what purpose ?

Do the Japanese behave like Americans? No, every race isproud of itself & retains their cultural identities under allcircumstances.

Only with the Indians settled outside in general, I seethis mad rush of throwing away all that is traditional & embracing the west?.And they spend a life time bashing India & pointing out all that is badwhich is bizzare. Do you see any race bashing their own country ever? I also see this in some cities in India, wherebeing modern means throw away all our traditions & talk against our country.

Some fool here came & told me, he was feeling sadbecause some fellow called Robbie in the US suicided & he was supposed tobe some great movie hero. I fired the hell out of that fellow – millions ofmy/our countrymen are dying here due to poverty, he feels sad about some moviestar that too in the USA. Astonishing piece of crap !!!

This is what inferiority complex can do !!!!

That’s why I keep repeating, let us junk the westcompletely in our discussions, we don’t need them to analyze out philosophy. Manymany Indians in the last 200 yrs have done yeoman work, lets read their booksnot some junk author in the west !!!
 
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Krish –

Just becausesomeone goes out of their native state for jobs, does not mean they have togive up their culture & traditions!

Precisely whyI mentioned about the malayalis who went in droves to middle east in the lastfew decades. All of them have come back & settled here.

There is no discriminationor deprivation here, looks like you are talking about your personal experiencesthat you seem to have faced.

 
In the last 20 yrs, when you were all sitting outside of TN & bashing, the state has made significant strides. Today, one cannot find a local cook in Chennai, most are UP/Biharis. Similarly all construction workers are from North, not only in TN, across entire south. such is the progress of the south states !!

Most of the locals have moved up & no longer willing to do such work like how the American whites don’t want to do any menial work & import the Mexicans to do it !!

No one in TN goes home hungry due to the Amma canteens/food subsidies – going on for years now, & it is the only state in India where it happens.

Migration has reversed completely, north indians are coming in hordes & looking for Jobs in South migrating not just to the cities, they are moving to small towns as well.

Such is the growth here!!.
 
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Jaykay767 said:
Krish –

There is no discrimination or deprivation here, looks like you are talking about your personal experiencesthat you seem to have faced.
Click to expand...

Jaykay,

How do you see there is no discrimination in TN for TB..Can you get a Medical seat in TN...My relatives had to go out of TN to get a Medical seat ..Can you aspire for a good Engg college without the clout of reservation....You will be forced to take up with Sastra or some other private engg college and not a REC or Guindy Engg college...Do we have any political power in TN except with the fledgling BJP...AIADMK is neck deep in Tamil Nationalism...You will get a short shrift any where..Even in so called Communist parties which have pushed TB to the sidelines...Are these not humiliations meted out..That a person like Badri is facing the music and was forced to share it in public...
 
Vgane –

Are you telling me that somehow only TBs arediscriminated & not the others ?

Which state does not have reservation? In which state canthe so called upper castes get into Govt jobs easily or to govt colleges ? People always find ways to overcome this,they get into private colleges & do very well or go to neighboring states.

There are many many private colleges where the entry isnot difficult, there are no huge capitation fees etc..

 
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