Mythology, science and society VIKRAM SONI ROMILA THAPAR

Some people believe that modern scientific inventions were known to the ancient-most Indians. That there is little scientific evidence to support this may be understood by raising the possibility that the required knowledge may have existed five thousand years ago but has not been preserved, or that we cannot categorically deny the existence of such knowledge. So we thought it might be useful to review this view.

Mythology is magic realism in the sense that there is some realism and a lot of magic in the fabric of mythology, woven into legendary tales with supernatural objects and supernatural powers. Myths also show the extremes of human behaviour, dilemmas, attitudes and paradoxes. Take out the imagination and the tale slackens into humdrum homily.Now, imagination we have aplenty with aerial vehicles, multiple heads and arms, all kinds of yantras (contraptions) that can, at one remove, be claimed as sci-fi or hi-fi apparatus, all invented by fecund imagination rooted in a mythological past. In this we are no different from other societies with an ancient past. Can we, on the basis of this, say that modern inventions existed in that past? This takes us, with another sweeping flight of imagination, into the belief that all imagined objects were actually part of the material inventions of the past. And when the myths enter into people’s beliefs, mythology gets entangled with religion.
Mythology should be read as mythology, and therefore with a rich, and separate identity. Ancient myth-makers, among the Egyptians, Greeks, Indians, Chinese and others, saw myth as involving gods and the supernatural, so it is perhaps sensible not to confuse it with history or science. Myths are old legends; history is what is thought to have happened, of which science is a part. To replace the latter with the former is incorrect and, some would say, rather fanciful, as illustrated by the comments made by Prime Minister Narendra Modi recently in which he connected ancient mythology with contemporary science by claiming that present day inventions had already been materially invented in our ancient past.
Science is based on information and accumulated knowledge. It requires that this information and knowledge be analysed methodically and logically. The reliability of the evidence, before it can be accepted as proof, has to be rigorously tested. This procedure obviously does not apply to imagination.


Inventions are not just momentary leaps of imagination. They have a long gestation period; they go through many different stages and iterations before they evolve into a viable end product like an aeroplane. For the mythical creations of the past, there is no recorded evidence of such a development. It is true that both science and its discoveries and technology draw on creative inputs from imagination and invention. However, they are not based solely on imagination or they would remain dreams and not become reality.


In the present climate this propaganda, which is now going official, would take us one step further than George Bush and those Americans who deny evolution and replace it by Intelligent Design, not altogether divorced from notions of divinity. Even the Pope, who is considered to be closer to God, has recently acknowledged evolution.

People are often naïve about their beliefs, since beliefs by their nature are generally not questioned. It is easy to exploit the susceptibilities of such people. Such pronouncements are likely to turn those who believe in them ultra-nationalistic, irrational, anti-Science and imprinted with a particular view of the past. This is one way of dismissing the validity of science — by stating that a scientific invention existed when there is no context for the scientific knowledge required for the invention. And mythology and religion mix easily. Everyone is concerned about the explosive mix of religion and politics. We are going further than Molotov, in making an explosive cocktail of ideas by adding mythology to science, religion and politics. This is not where we want to go.
Mythology, science and society - The Hindu

What is it that we really are? It is a question not just for gurus and scientists but for everyone, because what we think we are has consequences in terms of what we do as a people, as a society, and as a nation — both to ourselves and to others around us.


If our cultures — religious or secular — tell us we are special and brought here to this world to merely feed off the blood and sweat of others, we humans might do it, and have done it too. We have justified slavery; the exploitation of women; the wholesale slaughter of whole species of living beings — all in the name of both god and reason. These are realities we cannot ignore.
if we think that the solution to these problems is to project a fantasy from the past — with some Sanskrit-sounding names — onto the present, we are going to be doing a disservice to a great, and living, cultural legacy. After all, the measures of greatness we are using today to talk about our past and our civilisation are neither great nor civilised. Airplanes and plastic surgery are as ephemeral as any other invention, especially in the face of the perennial wisdom that has helped human beings of many different cultural dispositions find truth, happiness, and at least some moral coherence in their lives.


Even our comic books, when we were younger, paid as much attention to the moral implications of the stories as they did to the battles with demons and such. If our new history books, or our emerging public discourse, don’t recognise this, it will be a greater loss for our imagination than anything the pseudo-secularists may ever have done.The way forward is to recognise that Hinduism is as alive today as it was millennia ago. Hindus — Indians, Americans and many others — are still turning to its real gifts because they see something in it that the stories of the modern world cannot provide; not because we supposedly invented planes and gadgets in the past. I agree that we do need better narratives of our past and a better critique of the ideas that deny us our past; but for that we need probe into the right sources.



By all means let us learn more about Ayurveda and Aryabhatta. But beyond that, let us keep our fantasies out of our glorious spiritual and philosophical heritage. What Valmiki said about the pushpaka vimana may or may not fly in the face of evidence today, but what he said about the human condition will liberate us in the way it is meant to.

Asking the right questions to awaken our past - The Hindu

A good post.
Thanks

Dear Prasad ji,

Good posts but I would like to still keep an open mind that what we are today could just be a cycle or repetition of a parallel universe that once existed.

That is the scientific advancement as of 2014 could have existed in a galaxy far far away and it got destroyed or dissolved but the blue print of its existence was left in the cosmos and earth traced its foot steps.

I would not want to view time as past,present or future..I would like to think of a timeless phenomenon where advancement did not have a past or future.

The OP only holds good if one is stuck to the concept of a linear time zone with no parallel universes.

Even right now there might be a parallel universe which is still evolving and when they reach the state we are today we could be going back to pre historic days for all we know.

So if we could remove the concept of time from our thoughts advancement wont be seen as advancement anymore. It will be just be seen as a phase and I get a great feeling that life civilizations tend to repeats itself in cycles.

After all this isnt the 1st Kali yuga ever.

There have been lots of videos on youtube on aliens and evidence relating to other universe.

there has also been talk of an underground beneath ajantha temple in aurangabad. which might have housed prehistoric people of advanced civilisation .

the sculptures indicate patalalok and depict short statured people . it sounds kind of weird . . are these sculptors imagination or is there some truth to

aliens , more intelligent than us visiting us periodically

one can spend idle hours viewing these videos.

prasad1 said:

< Clipped >

People are often naïve about their beliefs, since beliefs by their nature are generally not questioned. It is easy to exploit the susceptibilities of such people. Such pronouncements are likely to turn those who believe in them ultra-nationalistic, irrational, anti-Science and imprinted with a particular view of the past. This is one way of dismissing the validity of science — by stating that a scientific invention existed when there is no context for the scientific knowledge required for the invention. And mythology and religion mix easily. Everyone is concerned about the explosive mix of religion and politics. We are going further than Molotov, in making an explosive cocktail of ideas by adding mythology to science, religion and politics. This is not where we want to go.
Mythology, science and society - The Hindu

Click to expand...

I feel it is worth having this experiment now, in India. Economically, scientifically and in many other aspects, this country is now at a low stage. (Forget about Mangalyan because we just copied everything from the western countries; no iota even of the glorious ancient bharatvarsha in it because even Ravana's pushpaka is not stated to have gone to the mangal graha!).

To me this looks like a very dangerous experiment, a revival of history — not of the so-called ancient, very glorious bharatvarsha — but of Hitler's germany in the last century. Still, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating; and so let us encourage this with a scientific bent of mind and record the results for future.

renuka said:

Dear Prasad ji,

Good posts but I would like to still keep an open mind that what we are today could just be a cycle or repetition of a parallel universe that once existed.

That is the scientific advancement as of 2014 could have existed in a galaxy far far away and it got destroyed or dissolved but the blue print of its existence was left in the cosmos and earth traced its foot steps.

I would not want to view time as past,present or future..I would like to think of a timeless phenomenon where advancement did not have a past or future.

The OP only holds good if one is stuck to the concept of a linear time zone with no parallel universes.

Even right now there might be a parallel universe which is still evolving and when they reach the state we are today we could be going back to pre historic days for all we know.

So if we could remove the concept of time from our thoughts advancement wont be seen as advancement anymore. It will be just be seen as a phase and I get a great feeling that life civilizations tend to repeats itself in cycles.

After all this isnt the 1st Kali yuga ever.

Click to expand...

THere is a nice english film -sci fiction . Christofer Nolans Interstellar.

Mathew McCaughey plays a person leaving earth for saturn to look for an alternative human settlement as crops on earth become useless for consumption .he ends up

on a NASA mission to saturn and ends up in a black hole there travelling back in time to see events of his life fly by on a different time scale and watches his kids

growing up when young whizzing past him and he participating in his past life gone by. very weird I understand. It is running in singapore and must be running in

malaysia also . Recommended for seeing by my daughter who saw it today . you might be interested

CHANDRU1849 said:

Development in any field basically requires imagination, questioning, curiosity and debating added with scientific temper. While our ancestors had lot of imagination and the Puranas were perfect examples of it, subsequent generations have failed to capitalize such imaginary ideas with the other areas for possible new inventions.

Till date, our vision is restricted to imagination only, and any idea or invention generated is only a piece meal and here and there. Even bhagavathas and story tellers are concentrating only on romance, war etc., but not on imaginary items like pushpaka vimana, warheads etc. to kindle the curiosity of youngsters while attending such programs (if at all any youngster attends).

Encouraging scientific temper among youngsters coupled with curiosity, imagination, questioning and debating will definitely yield good results.

Click to expand...

A good post!

Where is the scientific temper in india.

If you have make it in science, go to Cambridge or some such place,

The status of research labs and reseach scientists are pathetic.

they are poorly paid and recognised.

Has anything useful come from indian scientists in fields other than in atomic energy or space?

Our scientific instiutions are in bureaucratic control and nothing useful is expected from them i near future .