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For The Kind Attention Of Mr.Silverfox & Others Living In The U.S.A.

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K

KAUNDINYA

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Dear Mr.Silverfox & others who live in the USA, Kindly read the following article in the "ORGANISER", the official organ of the RSS & post your comments:
http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=143&page=37
"Discrimination in-built in White domain" by Sandhya Jain (August 13, 2006 issue of the Organiser).
Further we in India would like to know about the following:
a) About the "Native American Holocaust" (Atrocities committed by Christopher Colombus & others on the Native Americans) & the present condition of the Native Americans.
b) Is it true that some Hispanic people look exactly like (brown) Indians & they often mistake brown Indians for Hispanic people & start conversing in Spanish?
:wave:
 
Dear Kaundinya:
I am terribly sorry I completely forgot to respond to your posting; got sidetracked!
Before I answer your two questions, let me give you some facts about the US elections. Let me also state that I have been a US Citizen for over 31 years and I have been voting in every election. Elections are held every year on the 1st Tuesday of November. Elections are done on a rotational level; Only about one-third of the Senate seats or the House of Representatives come up for election each year. This way, there is always some overlap. In addition, local level and state level elections are also held and are all in the same ballot sheet.
Note to my other US citizen friends: Please correct me if I am in error.

Now, to answer your questions:
a) Yes, in the early days (1800's), the white settlers committed atrocities against the Native Americans and almost wiped them out; later on, they were placed in special reservations. I don't believe there are very many pure Native Americans left; maybe pockets of them. Many of them have white blood. They are in the category of minorities - 1. Native Americans; 2. Blacks; 3. People of Hispanic ethnicity; 4. Asian or Pacific Islander. Now, in the US, when you say 'Asian', most of the mainstream Americans would think of somebody who is of Chinese/Korean/Japanese ethnicity. Anyway, the Indians are bundled in #4 category!
Slowly the US government has given many concessions to the Native Amereicans but still many of them live in the reservations, have very high alcoholism, obesity and diabetes.
b) Yes, many Hispanic people do look like us, Indians. Once when I was at the Statue of Liberty in New York (I was a student) and a bunch of hispanic girls came over and started talking to me in Spanish! But if you are like me living here for a very long time, you could figure out who is Indian and who isn't; the body english is different. Again, like India, 'Hispanic' people come in all colors, faces! People from Argentina and Chile are european-descendants and are white, while people from Brazil are very dark. Many of them are brown-skinned -- Mexicans, people from Nicaragua, Guatamala, Honduras, etc.
Nowadays, nobody mistakes the Indians! We are the brainy people and everybody knows about these Call Centers!! Generally, the impression now in the USA is that Indians are a smart bunch!

By the way, I read that article by Sandhya Jain; as far as I know, Blacks have been voting since 1965 and I dont believe you need to change the constitution. However, she is right in asserting that we wil have to wait for a very long time to have a woman or Jewish President; forget about a Black president - it isn't going to happen in the immediate future. Yes, for a country bragging to be the most advanced country, people's minds are not advanced. On the other hand, India had a woman Prime Minister and many Chief Ministers. She is also right; Bobby Jindal got elected because he converted to Christianity; as a Hindu, he didn't have any chance at all.
 
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Please read the following:



www.christianaggression.org




NEWS
Goa's company : Center for converting Hindus

Christian missionaries kidnapping Hindu devotees

Conversions will not be tolerated in Tirupati

BJP says Sonia encouraging conversions to Christianity

Story of Sanal Edamaruku, President, Rationalist International

Proselytisation FIR needs no sanction

Afghans Rally Against Korean ‘Proselytes’

BJP demands inquiry into Tirupati 'conversion' incidents

Fanatic sister tortures Hindu students

Conversion bid ends in murder attempt

Missionaries are corrupting the Young and Innocent Minds

Ram Sena protests against propagation of Christianity

More News Headlines...




A Pluralist’s encounter with a Missionary

Posted August 15, 2006

Kalavai Venkat
July 2006
The Hindu Renaissance
Source Link


Once, a Southern Baptist missionary was my co-passenger in a flight. Like every missionary out to seek a convert, he was pleasant. After learning that I am a Hindu he asked, “Is the caste system going away in India?” I quipped “Why should it go away?” He was surprised by my response and remarked, “You are the first Hindu who responded this way. Most Hindus agree that caste must go away and say that it is slowly going away.”

I decided to turn the tables on him. I asked him, “What language do the African Americans speak?” He replied, “English.” I asked, “What did their ancestors speak 500 years ago?” He began to contemplate. I thought that I might have to wait for eternity like the Christians have waited for the second coming of their messiah before the missionary would answer, so I prompted him, “Swahili? Hausa?” He agreed, “Yes.” I asked, “Do the African Americans worship the animist deities of their ancestors? Do they wed and bury per their ancestral customs?” The missionary replied, “No.”

I said that one could replace African Americans with any immigrant group: The Dutch, the Germans, the French or the Latinos. I added, “What you proudly advertise as the melting pot actually imposed the language, culture, religion and customs of the dominant ethnic group on all others. On the other hand, visit even a small village in India with just 300 families. The chances are that this population would be made up of 10 different castes and each of them retains its distinct religious, wedding, funerary, culinary and dialectic features. This is because, as a truly pluralistic society, the Hindu India allowed each ethnic group, regardless of how numerically small it was, to retain its identity.”

“So,” I added, “Caste is a result of this spirit of freedom and pluralism. It is something to be proud of. On the other hand, the so-called melting pot is actually a result of cultural, and often physical, extermination of diverse identities by one intolerant and powerful group.”

I continued to pontificate: “Like every other man made institution, caste too has been misused. Then, so has been every other man made institution like democracy or secularism. It was a democratically elected Hitler who exterminated 6 million Jews, Gypsies and mentally retarded patients. It was a democratically elected Jefferson who fixed the worth of every African American child at $ 22.50 and proposed to forcibly snatch them away from their parents and ship them back to Africa after ensuring that the adult African American population does not procreate any further. It was a democratically elected Roosevelt who declared that the extermination at the hands of the Whites was the best thing that happened to the Native Americans. Stalin and Mao were secular but they mercilessly sent millions to death camps.”

I asked him, “Is anyone demanding that democracy or secularism be abandoned because of a Jefferson, Roosevelt, Hitler, Stalin or Mao? Why should caste be abandoned just because it was misused? Hindus have systematically addressed caste inequities over the last 80 years or so. If we assume that we rid our society of all discriminations in the next 30 years, members of every caste, be it Brahmin, Kayastha, Maratha or Paraiyah could proudly say that they follow the millennia old religion, customs and dialects of their forefathers. Suppose the Christian West similarly resolves racial discriminations, could an African American, Dutch American or Latino make similar assertion?”

I pointed out that in the casteless Christian West, the minorities have been forced to abandon their identities and instead have been made to imitate the dominant group in every aspect of life such as religion, language, wedding and funeral customs. I cited the words of Nathan Katz and pointed out how Hindu pluralism, of which caste is an integral part, actually preserved minority customs. Katz, while discussing how the Jewish people flourished for centuries amidst the Hindus, writes:

"A crucial distinction between India and the rest of the Diaspora, however, is that in India acculturation is not paid for in the currency of assimilation. By acculturation I mean fitting comfortably into a society while retaining one's own identity, whereas by assimilation I mean that the loss of that identity is a perceived condition for acceptance. The study of Indian Jewish communities demonstrates that in Indian culture an immigrant group gains status precisely by maintaining its own identity. Such is the experience not only of India's Jews, but also of local Christians, Zoroastrians, and recently, Tibetan Buddhists. This striking feature of Indian civilization is reflected by each of these immigrant groups.

Now let us forget the Southern Baptist missionary and ask the Hindus: Would this preservation have been possible without the spirit of pluralism, which was ensured by the caste system? Are the Hindus going to repeat the missionary propaganda and deny the strengths of their own civilization or are they going to understand the institution of caste dispassionately? The missionary and the imperialist know that the institution of caste must be obliterated if the Hindu society were to be weakened and converted. A Hindu should critically analyze his traditions instead of uncritically absorbing propaganda
 
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This is a very thought-provoking article. Thanks for posting it Kaundinya.

The idea that caste need not be abandoned simply because it has been misused is very compelling. Caste, on the positive side, is a source of identity and propagates a philosophy of live and let live.

KAUNDINYA said:
Please read the following:



www.christianaggression.org




NEWS
Goa's company : Center for converting Hindus

Christian missionaries kidnapping Hindu devotees

Conversions will not be tolerated in Tirupati

BJP says Sonia encouraging conversions to Christianity

Story of Sanal Edamaruku, President, Rationalist International

Proselytisation FIR needs no sanction

Afghans Rally Against Korean ‘Proselytes’

BJP demands inquiry into Tirupati 'conversion' incidents

Fanatic sister tortures Hindu students

Conversion bid ends in murder attempt

Missionaries are corrupting the Young and Innocent Minds

Ram Sena protests against propagation of Christianity

More News Headlines...




A Pluralist’s encounter with a Missionary

Posted August 15, 2006

Kalavai Venkat
July 2006
The Hindu Renaissance
Source Link


Once, a Southern Baptist missionary was my co-passenger in a flight. Like every missionary out to seek a convert, he was pleasant. After learning that I am a Hindu he asked, “Is the caste system going away in India?” I quipped “Why should it go away?” He was surprised by my response and remarked, “You are the first Hindu who responded this way. Most Hindus agree that caste must go away and say that it is slowly going away.”

I decided to turn the tables on him. I asked him, “What language do the African Americans speak?” He replied, “English.” I asked, “What did their ancestors speak 500 years ago?” He began to contemplate. I thought that I might have to wait for eternity like the Christians have waited for the second coming of their messiah before the missionary would answer, so I prompted him, “Swahili? Hausa?” He agreed, “Yes.” I asked, “Do the African Americans worship the animist deities of their ancestors? Do they wed and bury per their ancestral customs?” The missionary replied, “No.”

I said that one could replace African Americans with any immigrant group: The Dutch, the Germans, the French or the Latinos. I added, “What you proudly advertise as the melting pot actually imposed the language, culture, religion and customs of the dominant ethnic group on all others. On the other hand, visit even a small village in India with just 300 families. The chances are that this population would be made up of 10 different castes and each of them retains its distinct religious, wedding, funerary, culinary and dialectic features. This is because, as a truly pluralistic society, the Hindu India allowed each ethnic group, regardless of how numerically small it was, to retain its identity.”

“So,” I added, “Caste is a result of this spirit of freedom and pluralism. It is something to be proud of. On the other hand, the so-called melting pot is actually a result of cultural, and often physical, extermination of diverse identities by one intolerant and powerful group.”

I continued to pontificate: “Like every other man made institution, caste too has been misused. Then, so has been every other man made institution like democracy or secularism. It was a democratically elected Hitler who exterminated 6 million Jews, Gypsies and mentally retarded patients. It was a democratically elected Jefferson who fixed the worth of every African American child at $ 22.50 and proposed to forcibly snatch them away from their parents and ship them back to Africa after ensuring that the adult African American population does not procreate any further. It was a democratically elected Roosevelt who declared that the extermination at the hands of the Whites was the best thing that happened to the Native Americans. Stalin and Mao were secular but they mercilessly sent millions to death camps.”

I asked him, “Is anyone demanding that democracy or secularism be abandoned because of a Jefferson, Roosevelt, Hitler, Stalin or Mao? Why should caste be abandoned just because it was misused? Hindus have systematically addressed caste inequities over the last 80 years or so. If we assume that we rid our society of all discriminations in the next 30 years, members of every caste, be it Brahmin, Kayastha, Maratha or Paraiyah could proudly say that they follow the millennia old religion, customs and dialects of their forefathers. Suppose the Christian West similarly resolves racial discriminations, could an African American, Dutch American or Latino make similar assertion?”

I pointed out that in the casteless Christian West, the minorities have been forced to abandon their identities and instead have been made to imitate the dominant group in every aspect of life such as religion, language, wedding and funeral customs. I cited the words of Nathan Katz and pointed out how Hindu pluralism, of which caste is an integral part, actually preserved minority customs. Katz, while discussing how the Jewish people flourished for centuries amidst the Hindus, writes:

"A crucial distinction between India and the rest of the Diaspora, however, is that in India acculturation is not paid for in the currency of assimilation. By acculturation I mean fitting comfortably into a society while retaining one's own identity, whereas by assimilation I mean that the loss of that identity is a perceived condition for acceptance. The study of Indian Jewish communities demonstrates that in Indian culture an immigrant group gains status precisely by maintaining its own identity. Such is the experience not only of India's Jews, but also of local Christians, Zoroastrians, and recently, Tibetan Buddhists. This striking feature of Indian civilization is reflected by each of these immigrant groups.

Now let us forget the Southern Baptist missionary and ask the Hindus: Would this preservation have been possible without the spirit of pluralism, which was ensured by the caste system? Are the Hindus going to repeat the missionary propaganda and deny the strengths of their own civilization or are they going to understand the institution of caste dispassionately? The missionary and the imperialist know that the institution of caste must be obliterated if the Hindu society were to be weakened and converted. A Hindu should critically analyze his traditions instead of uncritically absorbing propaganda
 
Dear Chintana:
At the risk me being accused of plagiarism, I am copying several of your postings and saving them for future use. I promise to use them for the good cause!!!!

[Chintana -- The idea that caste need not be abandoned simply because it has been misused is very compelling. Caste, on the positive side, is a source of identity and propagates a philosophy of live and let live. ]
 
Dear Silverfox:

I chuckled upon reading your posting. I appreciate your taking the effort to avoid plagiarism. In this endeavor please feel free to use as many of my ideas wherever appropriate.

:)



silverfox said:
Dear Chintana:
At the risk me being accused of plagiarism, I am copying several of your postings and saving them for future use. I promise to use them for the good cause!!!!

[Chintana -- The idea that caste need not be abandoned simply because it has been misused is very compelling. Caste, on the positive side, is a source of identity and propagates a philosophy of live and let live. ]
 
Re:

Love is in the air :lalala:

Chintana said:
Dear Silverfox:

I chuckled upon reading your posting. I appreciate your taking the effort to avoid plagiarism. In this endeavor please feel free to use as many of my ideas wherever appropriate.

:)
 
Re:

WRONG. Blacks have been able to vote since after the Civil War, back in 1865.

The bottom line (one that many in India have a hard time accepting) is that the United States is centuries ahead of India and the rest of the world when it comes to equal opportunity. Do they have a long way to go? Of course!

silverfox said:
Dear Kaundinya:
By the way, I read that article by Sandhya Jain; as far as I know, Blacks have been voting since 1965
 
Dear TK Parthasarathy

You were right that blacks have been able to vote since after the Civil War. However, the operative word is "able to" but was never allowed especially in the Southern States.
Please read the following passage from web pages of United States Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division.
[http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/voting/intro/intro_a.htm]
"Before the Civil War the United States Constitution did not provide specific protections for voting. Qualifications for voting were matters which neither the Constitution nor federal laws governed. At that time, although a few northern states permitted a small number of free black men to register and vote, slavery and restrictive state laws and practices led the franchise to be exercised almost exclusively by white males.
Shortly after the end of the Civil War Congress enacted the Military Reconstruction Act of 1867, which allowed former Confederate States to be readmitted to the Union if they adopted new state constitutions that permitted universal male suffrage. The 14th Amendment, which conferred citizenship to all persons born or naturalized in the United States, was ratified in 1868.
In 1870 the 15th Amendment was ratified, which provided specifically that the right to vote shall not be denied or abridged on the basis of race, color or previous condition of servitude. This superseded state laws that had directly prohibited black voting. Congress then enacted the Enforcement Act of 1870, which contained criminal penalties for interference with the right to vote, and the Force Act of 1871, which provided for federal election oversight.
As a result, in the former Confederate States, where new black citizens in some cases comprised outright or near majorities of the eligible voting population, hundreds of thousands -- perhaps one million -- recently-freed slaves registered to vote. Black candidates began for the first time to be elected to state, local and federal offices and to play a meaningful role in their governments.
The extension of the franchise to black citizens was strongly resisted. Among others, the Ku Klux Klan, the Knights of the White Camellia, and other terrorist organizations attempted to prevent the 15th Amendment from being enforced by violence and intimidation. Two decisions in 1876 by the Supreme Court narrowed the scope of enforcement under the Enforcement Act and the Force Act, and, together with the end of Reconstruction marked by the removal of federal troops after the Hayes-Tilden Compromise of 1877, resulted in a climate in which violence could be used to depress black voter turnout and fraud could be used to undo the effect of lawfully cast votes.
Once whites regained control of the state legislatures using these tactics, a process known as "Redemption," they used gerrymandering of election districts to further reduce black voting strength and minimize the number of black elected officials. In the 1890s, these states began to amend their constitutions and to enact a series of laws intended to re-establish and entrench white political supremacy.
Such disfranchising laws included poll taxes, literacy tests, vouchers of "good character," and disqualification for "crimes of moral turpitude." These laws were "color-blind" on their face, but were designed to exclude black citizens disproportionately by allowing white election officials to apply the procedures selectively. Other laws and practices, such as the "white primary,", attempted to evade the 15th Amendment by allowing "private" political parties to conduct elections and establish qualifications for their members.
As a result of these efforts, in the former Confederate states nearly all black citizens were disenfranchised and removed from by 1910. The process of restoring the rights taken stolen by these tactics would take many decades....................."

So, the federal government under President Johnson finally got their act together and signed the Voting Rights Act bill.
 
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