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Rape free, Murder free, Violence free, Corruption free India

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sravna

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Dear Folks,

Though there are some who may not believe in the method we use for attaining the changes we desire to happen, I believe there is no better recourse than the divine for the problems that our nation faces.

So let's not be deterred and continue with our spiritual efforts for an India that would serve as a model nation for others. Let us set aside 15 minutes for prayer every day for a rape free, murder free, violence free and corruption free India.
 
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Dear Folks,

Though there are some who may not believe in the method we use for attaining the changes we desire to happen, I believe there is no better recourse than the divine for the problems that our nation faces.

So let's not be deterred and continue with our spiritual efforts for an India that would serve as a model nation for others. Let us set aside 15 minutes for prayer every day for a rape free, murder free, violence free and corruption free India.

I am sure as a Hindu I can do that..what about the rest of teh faiths??
 
Dear Folks,

Though there are some who may not believe in the method we use for attaining the changes we desire to happen, I believe there is no better recourse than the divine for the problems that our nation faces.

So let's not be deterred and continue with our spiritual efforts for an India that would serve as a model nation for others. Let us set aside 15 minutes for prayer every day for a rape free, murder free, violence free and corruption free India.

Dear Sravna,

So that means daily we need to focus on rape,murder,violence and corruption??
Do you realize that the mind is focusing on crime instead of God?

Sravna..simple Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu will suffice..I am yet to see any prayer that starts off with the words depicting crime in the real sense.

Prayers too were Universal and not for the sake of one 'owns country.

I am certainly not going to start my day with hoping and praying that someone's testosterone levels wont spike when he sees a female!


Sab Ko Sanmathi Dey Bhagawan too will be enough.
 
Dear Sravna,

So that means daily we need to focus on rape,murder,violence and corruption??
Do you realize that the mind is focusing on crime instead of God?

Sravna..simple Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu will suffice..I am yet to see any prayer that starts off with the words depicting crime in the real sense.

Prayers too were Universal and not for the sake of one 'owns country.

I am certainly not going to start my day with hoping and praying that someone's testosterone levels wont spike when he sees a female!


Sab Ko Sanmathi Dey Bhagawan too will be enough.

Dear Renuka,

Self improvement comes by analysis and identifying every problem. Even for those who see the whole, the problem with the whole can be rectified only if the problem with the parts are rectified. That is the reason God has provided us with analytical thinking and to see the parts.

I think it is not wrong to focus on specific problems as that in fact indicates we recognize the specific problems and can take corrective measures to solve them. Similarly even though we can pray in a general way, focus gives much better results for the problems, as even God would want us to be aware of them and do something about them.

It is only a violent mind that sees violence in everything but a peaceful one does not see that even in things of violence. So we are not focusing on crime when we pray that those crimes should not happen and our intent of peace only pervades.

Basically we have two different philosophies existing in the world. The nations like the USA and the rest of west believe that things can happen only by planning and actions and no such thing as spiritual powers. Their philosophy is based on cold logic. There are others especially those who have faith in Indian philosophy that things are caused by divine acts covertly though sometimes overtly. I happen to belong to the latter school of thought.

I believe that there is a meaning to each and every act that happens even a seemingly trivial one and all such acts are geared to make self learn consciously or otherwise and progress towards liberation.

I believe in actions too. But actions should produce results. In a time like the present where each and every one of us is ruled by ego, good intention and sincere efforts alone will not work with people who should be taking actions to make things better. But fortunately good intention and sincerity works with god. As I said everything is a divine will just my own actions are also willed by God. People have been acting on divine will in the way they are acting and have arrived at the logical extreme.

What remains to happen is only self destruction. But the bigger plan of god I would believe is to make them see the folly of their actions and learn from what all they have done. I think the time is ripe for that and for people of cold logic to realize that they have failed to see the script of God and misunderstood the real nature of events in their lives.

I think myself or any adherent of spirituality would not profess any special role than others as everything is a divine act and as I said we are just playing out the divine will for our own liberation.

So I think there is a real role for prayers too and let us see if our combined prayers can have an effect on our problems and if so we can show that there is something more than cold logic
 
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Dear Sravna Sir,

In the caption I assumed 'IN' before the word India!
In a way, all these are 'free' because the criminals get off scot-free after committing the crime!! :peace:
 

'Maithreem Bhajatha Akhila Hruth Jethreem

Atmavateva paraan api pashyatha

Yuddham thyajatha Spardhaam Tyajata

Thyajatha Pareshwa akrama aakramanam

Jananee Prthivee Kaamadughaastey

JanakO Deva: Sakala Dayaalu

Daamyata Datta Dayathvam Janathaa

Sreyo Bhooyaath Sakala Janaanaam'


Meaning:


With friendship please serve, And conquer all the hearts,

Please think that others are like you,

Please forsake war for ever, Please forsake competition for ever,

Please forsake force to get some one else’s property,

For mother earth yields all our desires,

And God our father is most merciful,

Restrain, donate and be kind to all the people of this world.

Let all the people live with bliss!



Source: Maithreem Bhajata - Wikipedia
 
Dear Sravna Sir,

In the caption I assumed 'IN' before the word India!
In a way, all these are 'free' because the criminals get off scot-free after committing the crime!! :peace:

You are very correct Smt.RR. Hope they don't any more and even better never even think of those crimes.
 
Dear Renuka,

Self improvement comes by analysis and identifying every problem. Even for those who see the whole, the problem with the whole can be rectified only if the problem with the parts are rectified. That is the reason God has provided us with analytical thinking and to see the parts.

I think it is not wrong to focus on specific problems as that in fact indicates we recognize the specific problems and can take corrective measures to solve them. Similarly even though we can pray in a general way, focus gives much better results for the problems, as even God would want us to be aware of them and do something about them.

It is only a violent mind that sees violence in everything but a peaceful one does not see that even in things of violence. So we are not focusing on crime when we pray that those crimes should not happen and our intent of peace only pervades.

Basically we have two different philosophies existing in the world. The nations like the USA and the rest of west believe that things can happen only by planning and actions and no such thing as spiritual powers. Their philosophy is based on cold logic. There are others especially those who have faith in Indian philosophy that things are caused by divine acts covertly though sometimes overtly. I happen to belong to the latter school of thought.

I believe that there is a meaning to each and every act that happens even a seemingly trivial one and all such acts are geared to make self learn consciously or otherwise and progress towards liberation.

I believe in actions too. But actions should produce results. In a time like the present where each and every one of us is ruled by ego, good intention and sincere efforts alone will not work with people who should be taking actions to make things better. But fortunately good intention and sincerity works with god. As I said everything is a divine will just my own actions are also willed by God. People have been acting on divine will in the way they are acting and have arrived at the logical extreme.

What remains to happen is only self destruction. But the bigger plan of god I would believe is to make them see the folly of their actions and learn from what all they have done. I think the time is ripe for that and for people of cold logic to realize that they have failed to see the script of God and misunderstood the real nature of events in their lives.

I think myself or any adherent of spirituality would not profess any special role than others as everything is a divine act and as I said we are just playing out the divine will for our own liberation.

So I think there is a real role for prayers too and let us see if our combined prayers can have an effect on our problems and if so we can show that there is something more than cold logic

Dear Sravna,

I am convinced, after more than 7 decades of life, that god does not have any "pre-conceived plan" for either the individual living entities or for humanity as a whole. (I don't think that the dinosaurs or all the other extinct species, became extinct, just because some god up there in the blue skies so planned and ordered; but that may be one way of 'explaining' the actual happenings away, especially to any audience which will like to hear such explanations.)

Each one of us is born as a result of, and to experience the good & bad results of our past karmas, but each one has certain amounts of "free will" also, the relative ratio of free will to fate being probably dependent upon the strength and/or virulence of the karmaphalas to be experienced during the current lifetime. Remember the words of BG which advises us मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भू:, meaning, "don't be a product of preponderantly the karmaphala". This already scripted मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भू:s cannot be altered even by any gods or higher level entities, even if such entities/gods exist (I personally don't think such things exist.).

Appealing to any god/s for divine intervention so as to nullify or completely eradicate rape, murder, violence, corruption or any other evil things in society, is not at all likely to succeed because it will be tantamount to "interference" with the ordained fates of the thousands of people who are to perpetrate such evils and the victims thereof. May be, if you pray very ardently and the natural law or ऋतं allows it (I don't know.) you can end up with the transfer of some karmaphalas onto your own account and be born in the future as a potential rapist, murderer, corrupt fellow, etc. or as a victim of such things.

Personally I will not therefore like to even wish, let alone pray for divine intervention in such specific points. Instead it will be enough to constantly wish for श्रेयो भूयात् सकलजनानाम् । (śreyo bhūyāt sakalajanānām | = let everyone have śreyas, i.e., virtue, moral merit ; an act leading to the chief temporal good ; good fortune, auspiciousness, prosperity, bliss, final happiness or beatitude).
 
Dear Shri Sangom,

Don't you think it is not possible for everyone to have bliss when some of them have as their fate to suffer because of rape or murder? If indeed it is possible aren't such people escaping their ordained fate as you say?

You would agree that one's karmas are played out as fate. According to you there is also some free will exercised by people. What I think is, free will does exist but only for people who have reached the spiritual stage in their evolution. This is because when you reach the spiritual stage you are beginning to be in sync with the ultimate reality which is a totally unbound entity. So you begin to be free too and hence possess free will.

But when your mind is not spiritual it means you are tied down by your ego and in essence not your own self and hence not really making your own decisions. Such people in my opinion are not really free and do not possess free will. So only after you evolve to being predominantly spiritual or are more or less free of ego you get to exercise freewill.

Either way it is divine play, you may not like to think God is external but that doesn't really matter. What I mean by divine is one's real self when it is totally free of ego and hence unbounded. My views on the nature of reality is what advaita says and I think many members know that.

So when you are bound by ego there is a reason for it because you learn to do all the wrong things but don't bother about it. I think later reality would present itself in such a way that you see a different interpretation for the same events. Your perspective would be altered in a telling way by the way these events unfold and this serves the dual purpose of seeing the shallowness of your earlier beliefs and a true grasp of the deeper truths. I think that would make it possible for an irreversible change in perspective.

The above is speculation only but to me it makes sense since it explains why there is ego in the first place. The actions of these people are divinely willed because the ego finally gives way and so it has to be a divine plan. Let me say something in line with your interpretation of divine. It can be said that it is actually everyone's real self that is directing every action of the person. When the real self is veiled from the person by ego he thinks he is acting but when he is free of the ego he sees the truth and what he thinks and acts is real and free. In either case it is the divine real self that is responsible for every action.

It is said that the real self or atman is a silent witness and does not act but that doesn't prevent one from concluding that it is the ultimate source of every action. Since we accept according to advaita that atman is brahman the latter being the source of everything I think we can make the above argument.

Regarding your point on karmaphalas being transferred to my account if I pray for the eradication of rape etc I do not think that is likely because who knows it may be the actual karmas of the people who are saved from rape and murder to be saved that way. Unless you alter the inner workings of nature which is not the case as prayers are said to be a legitimate means of making requests to the divine, I do not think such a transfer will happen.
 
...

Personally I will not therefore like to even wish, let alone pray for divine intervention in such specific points. Instead it will be enough to constantly wish for श्रेयो भूयात् सकलजनानाम् । (śreyo bhūyāt sakalajanānām | = let everyone have śreyas, i.e., virtue, moral merit ; an act leading to the chief temporal good ; good fortune, auspiciousness, prosperity, bliss, final happiness or beatitude).

Dear Sir,

Without a divine intervention, what is a wish worth? Would it not seem empty as wishes are nothing but our own conviction of things to act in a certain way?

I personally feel that wishes, or prayer, would make sense only if there is a way of them getting implemented, by "some" intervention.

Wish you get well soon... with divine intervention, if there is any !

Regards,
 
Dear Sir,

Without a divine intervention, what is a wish worth? Would it not seem empty as wishes are nothing but our own conviction of things to act in a certain way?

I personally feel that wishes, or prayer, would make sense only if there is a way of them getting implemented, by "some" intervention.

Wish you get well soon... with divine intervention, if there is any !

Regards,

Of course there's no such thing as 'divine'. But to say Sangom should get well when nothing's wrong with him is preposterous, to say the least.

Wishes do not cost money, and need not be confused with prayers. Even the prayers you see in newspapers thanking some or the other saint costs a lot. Not to be confused with wishes. I wish for a Maserati. Can be fulfilled only with human intervention, not divine prayers.
 
Dear Sravna,

I keep stressing repeatedly and I will keep doing so.


You are threading into dangerous waters!


You are hoping intensely for change through divine intervention..when results do not deliver your mind might not be able to cope with it and you might actually even develop Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality Disorder) which can have disastrous consequences.


Ambi..please do not become Anniyan.
 
Dear Sravna,

I keep stressing repeatedly and I will keep doing so.


You are threading into dangerous waters!


You are hoping intensely for change through divine intervention..when results do not deliver your mind might not be able to cope with it and you might actually even develop Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality Disorder) which can have disastrous consequences.


Ambi..please do not become Anniyan.

Dear Doctor,

Just as you have tremendous, intense faith in a godman from Puttaparthi long gone, Ambi mama has faith in some 'divine'. Live and let live, acc. your own personal godman!!
 
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There is A thing called as yuga dharmam.

Kali yuga is what exists now and exists as it is expected to be.

If your dream is to come true we have to wait for the

Satya yuga aka Krutha yuga in the next cycle of yugas.

Put these in this way to get the correct form of Kali yuga

Free Rape, Free Murder, Free Violence and Free Corruption :bump2:

and I bet you can't describe Kali yuga briefer and better than this.
:(
 
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Dear Doctor,

Just as you have tremendous faith in a godman from Puttaparthi long gone, Ambi mama has faith in some 'divine'. Live and let live, acc. your own personal godman!!



My dear Ash,

I do not pray for any change.

BTW It has become a pass time for quite a number of members besides you to drag Sathya Sai Baba for no reason at all.

You see I too can drag in anyone I want to play "personal" here... like anyone ranging from your Mamans to Machans..so guys do not play "personal"..try to be a bit civil..if that is not possible than I can only bless you with a Madhyama Anguli!LOL


'mavanE! ini unakku sanguthaan!'
rip.gif


 
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My dear Ash,

I do not pray for any change.

BTW It has become a pass time for quite a number of members besides you to drag Sathya Sai Baba for no reason at all.

You see I too can drag in anyone I want to play "personal" here... like anyone ranging from your Mamans to Machans..so guys do not play "personal"..try to be a bit civil..if that is not possible than I can only bless you with a Madhyama Anguli!LOL

Why do you fly into an insane rage? When did I ever mention Sathya sai baba? Puttaparthi is a fairly large town with fairly large number of godmen. You are the one getting personal here.

Your education has taught you nothing apparently, except to show your middle finger. Is this what your godman taught you? Didn't he say love ever, hurt never? Since you say it's become a pastime to drag in your godman, it's also become a pastime to hurt members who are truly not hurtful towards anyone and do not use foul language (like Sravna, for example), and are true to your godman's beliefs though they may not explicitly profess belief in his teachings.
 
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Why do you fly into an insane rage? When did I ever mention Sathya sai baba? Puttaparthi is a fairly large town with fairly large number of godmen. You are the one getting personal here.

Your education has taught you nothing apparently, except to show your middle finger. Is this what your godman taught you? Didn't he say love ever, hurt never? Since you say it's become a pastime to drag in your godman, it's also become a pastime to hurt members who are truly not hurtful, and are true to your godman's beliefs.


Dear Ash,

oops sorry..I think you quoted my pre edited post.You missed out this line.

For your benefit I am reproducing it here.

'mavanE! ini unakku sanguthaan!' :rip:


 
There is A thing called as yuga dharmam.

Kali yuga is what exists now and exists as it is expected to be.

If your dream is to come true we have to wait for the

Satya yuga aka Krutha yuga in the next cycle of yugas.

Put these in this way to get the correct form of Kali yuga

Free Rape, Free Murder, Free Violence and Free Corruption :bump2:

and I bet you can't describe Kali yuga briefer and better than this.
:(


Dear VR ji,

Do you actually believe that only Kali Yuga is bad and all other Yugas were good?

I somehow get a feeling that humans were very much the same it is just that now cases get reported and it seem "apparently' bad.

What say you??
 
Dear Renuka,

I do not understand your concern. Don't we use law to control such acts? Does it make it dangerous if we ask for the help of the divine? Things have gone so worse that sanity needs to be brought back. Humans now cannot do it because they are only on a path of self destruction.
 
Dear Renuka,

I do not understand your concern. Don't we use law to control such acts? Does it make it dangerous if we ask for the help of the divine? Things have gone so worse that there needs to be sanity brought back. Humans now cannot do it because they are only on a path of self destruction.


Dear Sravna,

I hope you understand why I am saying so.

It is not that I do not want to ask Divine intervention..but I think Sangom ji's post answered the Karmic point of view and my post was hinting upon the medical point of view when we have unmet intense desire for change.

Beyond this I really can not explain more.

May the Force be with you.
 
Dear Ash,

oops sorry..I think you quoted my pre edited post.You missed out this line.

For your benefit I am reproducing it here.

'mavanE! ini unakku sanguthaan!' :rip:

I think only Prema Sai will bring sanity into your life. Certain godmen said they would live till 96 but died at 84. Maybe their math went awry.
 
I think only Prema Sai will bring sanity into your life. Certain godmen said they would live till 96 but died at 84. Maybe their math went awry.

Dear Ash,

Thank you for best wishes for me.You are indeed a nice guy.

regards
renu
 
Dear Sravna,

I hope you understand why I am saying so.

It is not that I do not want to ask Divine intervention..but I think Sangom ji's post answered the Karmic point of view and my post was hinting upon the medical point of view when we have unmet intense desire for change.

Beyond this I really can not explain more.

May the Force be with you.

Dear Renuka,

I feel your concerns are unfounded
 
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