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Is an analytical mind a boon or bane when it comes to devotion?

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renuka

renuka

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I was wondering that is an analytical mind a boon or bane when it comes to devotion to God?

I have a relative who goes to India at least 2 times a year for massive temple tours right from North to South of India and without fail does daily pooja and at least once a year does Homa at home.

I admire them to a certain extent cos they have undivided faith in anything the do even though I feel they are very ritualistic.

I also have a friend who is Sikh and she goes from religious classes every week and I asked her if she questions anything she studies and she said no..she takes everything as the gospel truth and her studies are to gain religious knowledge.

I recently met a doctor who surprisingly recommends meditation,yoga and being spiritual to patients.

For me I usually leave religion out of the equation when I treat patients..cos I rather be neutral and stick with evidence based stuff when I am dealing with life of others.

But what I am trying to convey here is in all 3 cases I have mentioned..each one of them have undivided faith in what ever they do.

From what I have noted in my relative and friend is they do not question anything but accept everything to be the Truth.

Sometimes I wonder may be they are actually benefiting the most cos their mind is at ease...unlike mine which is always questioning everything and not able to accept anything so easily anymore.

I bought a book on Saturday called "Nagarjuna's Precious Garland"...all about the words of Nagarjuna the founder of the Madhyamika Buddhist school of thought.

As I was reading that I was wondering why was he talking about the realm of Brahma(Brahma Loka) etc?

Then he gave some practical advise for all walks of life too.

Even a fairly neutral advise I was having trouble accepting it cos I felt that anything that is regimental scares me..somehow I like the freedom of thought and in other words "do as I please"!LOL

So I was thinking that does analysis of everything actually help us in life?

Its like seeing a rose and starting to analyze all about the rose and some non analytical minded person just enjoys the fragrance!
 
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Dear Renuka,

It is better always if you can can to get the big picture. In many cases especially with people who are known to be intelligent, faith is basically because they have grasped the big picture. In that case there is really no need to analyze. That is when you have already understood , there is no need to probe more.
 
sravna said:
Dear Renuka,

It is better always if you can can to get the big picture. In many cases especially with people who are known to be intelligent, faith is basically because they have grasped the big picture. In that case there is really no need to analyze. That is when you have already understood , there is no need to probe more.
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Dear Sravna,

But what if one starts to wonder "Is there actually even a Big Picture?"

So what is the intelligence level of that sort of person? Dumb or Dumber?
 
renuka said:
Dear Sravna,

But what if one starts to wonder "Is there actually even a Big Picture?"

So what is the intelligence level of that sort of person? Dumb or Dumber?
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Dear Renuka,

That we know from our experience. There are people who routinely have intuition which has proven to be correct. In fact many brilliant ideas including those in science are born as intuitions. So I think there is enough evidence to show that there is a big picture.
 
sravna said:
Dear Renuka,

That we know from our experience. There are people who routinely have intuition which has proven to be correct. In fact many brilliant ideas including those in science are born as intuitions. So I think there is enough evidence to show that there is a big picture.
Click to expand...

But if someone else painted a Big Big Picture and the rest of us were "forced" to believe that it actually exists?
 
renuka said:
I was wondering that is an analytical mind a boon or bane when it comes to devotion to God?

I have a relative who goes to India at least 2 times a year for massive temple tours right from North to South of India and without fail does daily pooja and at least once a year does Homa at home.

I admire them to a certain extent cos they have undivided faith in anything the do even though I feel they are very ritualistic.

I also have a friend who is Sikh and she goes from religious classes every week and I asked her if she questions anything she studies and she said no..she takes everything as the gospel truth and her studies are to gain religious knowledge.

I recently met a doctor who surprisingly recommends meditation,yoga and being spiritual to patients.

For me I usually leave religion out of the equation when I treat patients..cos I rather be neutral and stick with evidence based stuff when I am dealing with life of others.

But what I am trying to convey here is in all 3 cases I have mentioned..each one of them have undivided faith in what ever they do.

From what I have noted in my relative and friend is they do not question anything but accept everything to be the Truth.

Sometimes I wonder may be they are actually benefiting the most cos their mind is at ease...unlike mine which is always questioning everything and not able to accept anything so easily anymore.

I bought a book on Saturday called "Nagarjuna's Precious Garland"...all about the words of Nagarjuna the founder of the Madhyamika Buddhist school of thought.

As I was reading that I was wondering why was he talking about the realm of Brahma(Brahma Loka) etc?

Then he gave some practical advise for all walks of life too.

Even a fairly neutral advise I was having trouble accepting it cos I felt that anything that is regimental scares me..somehow I like the freedom of thought and in other words "do as I please"!LOL

So I was thinking that does analysis of everything actually help us in life?

Its like seeing a rose and starting to analyze all about the rose and some non analytical minded person just enjoys the fragrance!
Click to expand...
My son had a bad experience when he went to a specialist paying a big amount as fee for his severe backpain. After taking scan /xray ,the doctor gave him no medicines for pain and told him to meditate and go for yoga . he collected a six page booklet about curative aspects of yoga from the doctor. He came home cursing the doctor and regretting the money spent with no cure for his pain
Losing analytical ability and going to temples and pilgrimage in search of god is for lesser beings.you are right when you say such people appear to find peace and harmony in such pursuits. I feel losing analytical ability and following ritualistic practices without questioning would make me feel that I am a big fool. I prefer not to have peace of mind under these circumstances
 
krish44 said:
Losing analytical ability and going to temples and pilgrimage in search of god is for lesser beings.
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Dear Krish ji,

I would not want to use the word Lesser Beings here cos that would make us no different from most religious people who have a Holier than Thou attitude..so I would not want to call anyone a Lesser Being.

I was just wondering..in this world everyone seeks peace and harmony..those who do not question seem to be happier I feel....and the question is "Is Ignorance actually Bliss?"
 
Hi Renuka,

Let me add to your above post. “Is ignorance actually Bliss” is correct where people do not understand the full implications of religion & rituals. Most of the people follow the Guru’s in the knowledge they know best.

The other group does not follow any of this thinking there is no meaning in these rituals – which is again bigger ignorance.

See, the focus on God/prayers & devotion will make one less greedy, less selfish, more giving, more supporting of people etc.. Any number of analysis by people have shown,that people should live in moderation. I also quoted about this true story aired in Nat Geo about the British girl who wanted to enjoy life – I mean who doesn’t want to ?, but the consequences are devastating.

That’s why I wrote the post way back on – Cosmic theory –life’s real secrets. See, only when disasters strike, people will wake up & say – why me ???. so if we understand how cosmic world works, we can try & avoid these disasters.

In short, without knowing how the lives of religious people vs Atheist are impacted by the vagaries of life over a long period oftime, most of us will stick to the tried & tested way of religion.

Cheers,
 
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Hi Renuka - I also mentioned about a very aggressive father who wanted it all in life, bought 3 to 4 houses, partied all the time, life is to enjoy philosophy, hardly any focus on religion & encouraged his sons to be even more aggressive in life. Now both his sons are dead. what is the use of all this property ?????. Cheers,
 
renuka said:
Dear Krish ji,

I would not want to use the word Lesser Beings here cos that would make us no different from most religious people who have a Holier than Thou attitude..so I would not want to call anyone a Lesser Being.

I was just wondering..in this world everyone seeks peace and harmony..those who do not question seem to be happier I feel....and the question is "Is Ignorance actually Bliss?"
Click to expand...
Probably I could have used the word different instead of lesser if it appears pompous or conceited
Then would one go through life being ignorant though it is blissful. If the objective is personal bliss alone at the cost of utilizing analytical ability ,is it wortwhile course to follow. many seem to follow the path of blind following ,going for pilgrimages and the like.we can ask nara ji our guru for an answer
 
Our ancients have seen it all - ones who ran like the hare, wanted it all, the one who crawled like a tortoise, the non-believers, the religious etc... & they have codified all this in the various puranas, simple stories for the common folks, etc.. No need to re-invent life, so it is very smart to follow our ancients & stick to it - tried & tested even if you only want to analyse this logically or take the unknown path of a non-believer. As I said, unfortunately, every generation has to re-learn the fundamental truths of life, they simply cannot learn from others !!
 
Jaykay767 said:
Our ancients have seen it all - ones who ran like the hare, wanted it all, the one who crawled like a tortoise, the non-believers, the religious etc... & they have codified all this in the various puranas, simple stories for the common folks, etc.. No need to re-invent life, so it is very smart to follow our ancients & stick to it - tried & tested even if you only want to analyse this logically or take the unknown path of a non-believer. As I said, unfortunately, every generation has to re-learn the fundamental truths of life, they simply cannot learn from others !!
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Well said Jaykay.

Thinking is unfortunately associated with analytical thinking because I suppose that is when you seem to do thinking. People tend to gloss over the fact you can analyze only when you have the whole. So any analysis that is done is also on some whole though ones who are normally associated with getting good intuitions see a substantial chunk of the whole than others.
 
Jaykay767 said:
See, the focus on God/prayers & devotion will make one less greedy, less selfish, more giving, more supporting of people etc..
Cheers,
Click to expand...

Dear JK,

I dont know how true is this..cos many people in fact almost everyone who is praying is always invariably praying for some personal monetary gain..this is what puts me off from rituals cos it seems so insincere to be praising God only for personal gain.

On Saturday when bought the book "Nagarjuna's Precious Garland"..I was given a receipt by the shop owner a simple looking Buddhist person who runs the book shop and he told me 'keep this receipt cos you can use it to get a Income Tax rebate"

I know he was doing his job but at the same time I could not help thinking that he is recommending us to think of our fruits of actions in this case to get back the money via Income Tax..so as usual I could not shut up!LOL and told him nicely 'when it comes to gaining knowledge from a religious book it is better not to think of getting back the money via Income Tax cos the knowledge one gains from such books money can never buy..so I would consider this money well spent "

He was pleasantly surprised to hear that and he told me that all customers so far always insists on a receipt cos they do actually say they want to have their income tax rebate.

So you see JK ji..almost everyone who prays is doing it for personal gain in the monetary sense..even for a religious book people want to have their rebate.

So do you really think praying makes anyone less greedy, less selfish etc??
 
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Hi Renuka - No doubt there are a lot of believers who are more interested in pomp & show, than in the real meanings of prayer. But even if such people pray to God only for material gains initially, over time, they will change. that's the impact of prayers, even a evil man will change. Just sit in one of the temple Bhajans, or listen to the devoted singing/praying in a TV, or just listen on your iPOD, it will change your mind from material to spiritual. I am not saying, one should go to temples every day, or join the rituals every day, but just praying to God every day is enough. In this, I have the utmost admiration for the Musims, who pray to God every day. Cheers,
 
Any time of thinking grasps a whole idea. Those who have good intuitive abilities grasp a much greater whole than others. Those who have good logical abilities organize what they grasp in a very cogent manner. Those who have both good intuitive abilities and good logical abilities do both well. Generally those who have good intuitive abilities have good logical skills also those the reverse may not be true.
 
Hi Renuka - I have seen many businessmen who come to temples to pray for business success. Even these people, once they make a lot of money, they start giving to the poor through the temple trusts or otherwise. Power of prayers is unparalleled. Cheers,
 
It is hard not to be positively impacted /moved by the intense devotion of the believers & feel spiritual during the time of the prayers !!!
 
Jaykay767 said:
Our ancients have seen it all - ones who ran like the hare, wanted it all, the one who crawled like a tortoise, the non-believers, the religious etc... & they have codified all this in the various puranas, simple stories for the common folks, etc.. No need to re-invent life, so it is very smart to follow our ancients & stick to it - tried & tested even if you only want to analyse this logically or take the unknown path of a non-believer. As I said, unfortunately, every generation has to re-learn the fundamental truths of life, they simply cannot learn from others !!
Click to expand...


This is what I totally disagree with!

Just becos Mama or Machans of yesteryear had so called seen it all..how do we know they were right?

Anyone can claim what ever the want isn't it?

For example...some so called Vedic ritual might ask for animal sacrifice and are we supposed to cut an animal and throw into the fire and then keep jumping "yes yes..the animal reached heaven"

I dont know if its fortunate or unfortunate that every generation has to re learn fundamental truths of life..but I feel to a major extent we are still instinct based cos no one need to teach us how to procreate.
 
Jaykay767 said:
Just sit in one of the temple Bhajans, or listen to the devoted singing/praying in a TV, or just listen on your iPOD, it will change your mind from material to spiritual.
Click to expand...

Dear JK,

I prefer to sing any devotional song when I feel like it..singing it yourself give you the Kiccku.
Its better than hear someone else singing it cos when we sing it at least we make an effort to do things ourselves.

That is why I never believe too much in playing religious CDs..most people just keep the CDs on and their minds drifts and they are thinking of anything but God..so if we make an effort to sing it at least that is an effort well spent.

But after singing a Bhajan the next song I might sing is a Film Song..so the choice of songs might differ from one second to the other after all every song is from the Sapta Svaras.
 
Hi Renuka - when I said, our ancients have seen it all - I meant that they have seen the lives of religious people & non-believers, the hares & tortoises, those who wanted to enjoy it all, those who had harems of wives, affairs, etc... from this analysis, they have seen pre-dominantly only the religious follow the path of God, righteousness & hence have a better life !!. that's why I said, this is the tried & tested path - well trodden - and the other path - non-believers is unknown. Hence it is better not to follow the unknown path & regret later in life !! I have always said, there are some negative things in all religions, but the core of prayers, focus on God, devotion, etc.. ensure people follow the path of God & righteousness. Cheers,
 
Jaykay767 said:
It is hard not to be positively impacted /moved by the intense devotion of the believers & feel spiritual during the time of the prayers !!!
Click to expand...

Dear JK,

I remember once when I attended a Bhajan and suddenly a lady claimed she saw an image of a divinity on the outer surface of the water tumbler.
I was aged 16 then.

I looked at the tumbler and I did not see anything but next moment everyone was claiming they could see the same divinity.

So I thought I would play a trick on everyone and I said 'I can see another deity too" and within the next few seconds someone else was also saying "yes yes I see both deities now"
I was thinking 'I lied and still these people believed it and starting saying that they see it too"

So you see..when someone acts holy others will try to join the group for fear that they might be considered not holy enough.

I cant help remembering one Senthil or Vadivelu joke where he tells to everyone in the village that God will appear on the village hill and everyone follows him in disbelief and when they reach the hill no one saw anything so Senthil says "I see God in full glory now..only a person whose wife is chaste will be able to see Him"

The next moment everyone was in devotional frenzy calling out various names of God!LOL

You see everyone feared if they said they did not see God they might be blamed for having an unchaste wife.
 
Hi Renuka - from my experience, if one is a non-believer, they drift in life aimlessly except for material gains, they have no fixed value systems, they tend to be more liberal with truth, their kids grow up without any faith, most of them are into all kinds of affairs, ultimately ending in disaster. Obviously my experience is a very limited one, & have no such survey to support. But the point is, religion is important to shape our lives, value systems, our kids, their value systems & root them to ground reality. See, even if you do a logical analysis, how can non-believers bring up their kids, build a strong ethics & value system etc... Cheers,
 
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Jaykay767 said:
Hi Renuka - from my experience, if one is a non-believer, they drift in life aimlessly except for material gains, they have no fixed value systems, they tend to be more liberal with truth, their kids grow up without any faith, most of them are into all kinds of affairs, ultimately ending in disaster. Obviously my experience is a very limited one, & have no such survey to support. But the point is, religion is important to shape our lives, value systems, our kids, their value systems & root them to ground reality. See, even if you do a logical analysis, how can non-believers bring up their kids, build a strong ethics & value system etc... Cheers,
Click to expand...

Well said Jaykay. I do not think yours is a limited experience. In my view it represents the reality. Without any belief in God, the ego takes over and all that you mentioned are bound to happen. It is simply a nonsense that these people talk about logic and human values. When ego takes over where is the place for logic and compassion. Of course there are some exceptions that is the cases when the ego is under control.
 
Analytical mind has a role to play in our quest to mature as a person. It is neither a bane or boon but a tool.

'Person of faith' usually translates in my mind as 'Person of blind faith' and hence it cannot contribute to our maturity and growth.

Growth requires knowledge not belief.

There cannot be devotion to anything without knowing what it is. A person does not love their spouse after getting married via an arrangement. But love and devotion (or hate) happens over time upon knowing a person.

Those that are made to start out with faith without reason and knowledge will become skeptics, agnostics and even create own brand of atheism when confronted with serious contradictions in their faith.

Mind plays a critical role in gaining knowledge without which there cannot be true & lasting devotion
 
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