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From: V Muralidharan <[email protected]>
To: Iyer123 <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 7:50 AM
Subject: [Iyer123] Marriage most foul! How can we change it?

I attended a few Brahmin marriages in Chennai, Tiruchi and even Mayavaram. That is well within India and that too in Brahmin heartland! What I notice is, these marriages are having more of non-Brahmin (with due apologies to Sudras, as they seem to conduct their marriages with more dedication ti God) content and less and less of Brahmin practices. I mention some of them:

  1. The catering contractor may be a Brahmin. Many cooks are non-Brahmins.
  2. The serving of food is by uniformed non-Brahmins with only one or two Brahmins being present.
  3. The food is full of onions and Garlic. Serving chat items with onions and other masala items is becoming a fashion.
  4. The marriage is only for half a day and all mantras meant for 5 days are finished off within half day by deleting most of them.
  5. The Vihaha-Aupasana agni is put off immediately after the half day marriage and the aupasana panai -pot- is thrown into the dust bin.
  6. The same evening there is a big expensive RECEPTION, where mostly north Indian spicy non-Brahmin food is served as a buffet, where everyone has to stand and eat.
  7. The same night they have the "first night" (without any Garbadana mantra being chanted).
  8. The aupasana (or even Sandya vandana by the boy) is never done by the couple.
  9. They fly off to Singapore or Australia for their HONEY MOON. There they sleep on beds already slept on by all types of characters. Bad vibrations will produce bad progeny. No visit to Kuladeivam or elders.
  10. Brahmins who stay in the Mandapam wear mostly pants and shirts and you can see very few vesti men or saree wearing women. 9 yard saree has disappeared except for the bride for a few minutes. No one is doing any Sandya vandana even among old age Brahmins!
  11. Excess of expenditure is incurred on show items -like serving 7 items (idly, dosa, pongal, vada, poori and 3 sweets etc) for breakfast when just 2 items are adequate. Even middle class families are spending their hard earned money in such show of no value.
So how should a Brahmin marriage look like? This a wishful thinking which if followed by more learned Brahmins, will slowly help to revive our culture: (If the marriage is between a Brahmin boy and a Brahmin girl!)



  1. Invite only Brahmins for the marriage. (other can be called for a reception, may be a week later).
  2. Do not have a reception on the same day, previous day or following day!
  3. Maintain sanctity of marriage hall. Never allow any one with chappals inside the hall.
  4. Ask all relatives to wear our traditional dress. Even girls and boys should wear traditional dress only. Buy only such dress for them and do not buy towels, shirts, pants etc for any relative.
  5. No woman or girl should have loosely hanging fashionable hair, as it is an indication of Alakshmi Or moodevi!
  6. Conduct the Vaideeka ceremonies like Vratam, Naandi etc with great care. Give liberal Dakshina to qualified Brahmins.
  7. Do not engage purohits with cropped hair etc for the ceremony. Engage only those who have done proper adyayanam of one Veda atleast.
  8. Conducting 5 day marriage is very practical even today. Only for the first day you need the marriage hall and after that they can bring the Vivahagni to the boy's house. Thereafter starting with Pravesa homa, Aupasana and other homas can be done for next 5 days ending with Garbadana ceremony. Everything can be done in one's own house, even if it is small. Only the boy and girl should take 5 day leave for this purpose. It is worth it, as it gives lifelong benefit as per Sastras.
  9. If 5 day marriage is not possible, then at least do the aupasana for 2 days and have the Garbadana or Shanti Muhurtam on second day and not on the day of marriage itself.
  10. Our Parmacharya has given detailed instruction in this regards. Please read Deivattin Kural Vol 2.
  11. Do not have any onion preparation in the marriage on any day.
  12. Arrange catering only by Brahmins and serving also by Brahmins only. Pay more to get this done if needed. Always serve on plantain leaf on floor or table and do not use Buffet system.
  13. Avoid going to hotels on honeymoon etc at least for 48 days after marriage.
  14. Keep the marriage simple and Vaideekik. Give more Dakshina to Brahmins and give the money saved to the couple.
  15. Marriage is for practice of Dharma and the wife is the Dharma patni. It should not be reduced to mere sex gratification and sensuality.
  16. Note: Always keep the Acharya of Kanchi or Sringeri or the the respective religious heads in mind. Mere printing their name in the top of invitation is not enough. We should send a good donation to them before the marriage as Acharya Sambavanai.
Regards,
V.Muralidharan.


courtesy: iyer123
 
talibanization of hinduism. fodder for DK. good going chandrasekaran. you not even a brahmin, but a troublemaker here.

except some fools, nobody would fall for your bait here. tamil brahmins have enough problems without this invitation for baiting and racist ideology. thank you.
 
Dear Kunjs,

The email is from Iyer123 groups...so it is not the words of Chandrasekaran.

Iyer123 groups are hard core(pun intended!LOL) Traditionalist.
 
talibanization of hinduism. fodder for DK. good going chandrasekaran. you not even a brahmin, but a troublemaker here.

except some fools, nobody would fall for your bait here. tamil brahmins have enough problems without this invitation for baiting and racist ideology. thank you.

I like to be one among those "some fools", dear Kunjuppu!!Though I do not contribute to some of those instructions, on the whole they are salutary for our community (caste), I feel.
 
Dear Kunjs,

I am wondering...what about the Kalyan Mandap??

Is there a caste based system too in India where Kalyan Mandap has caste based halls?

Cos what if the Kalyan Mandap was used for some other caste or religion wedding before?

So I guess Muralidharan of Iyer123 groups forgot to add that point!LOL
 
OP,

First of all, these practices would seem fanaticism/extremism for all, including Brahmins.

Secondly, people have no patience to sit before the agni and undergo other formalities for more than half an hour [plus, chennai heat!]. Plus, no one understands any sanskrit, let alone they comprehend their meaning and significance.

So, before we insist on any of those procedures, we are indebted to educate the people on health and importance of sanskrit and our shAstrAs.

Thus, we may improve their listening abilities and patience.Then, they themselves will start organizing such disciplined practices on their own.
 
dear renu,

the strength of the community is to realize its weaknesses.

today tambrams are lesser and lesser in number. with the formation of kerala, the separation between tambrams and kerala iyers appear to be increasing. folks like my dad, came to madras to seek their living. the next generation went to trivandrum or cochin. all my nieces from calicut have done the same.

the community is further fragmented by distances and more so by intermarriages. so, one person reminiscing like this, is apparently harmless. except, there are readers of this forum, who have their own view, some of which, is blind hatred for brahmins. also there are, i believe, folks from other religions, pretending to be hindus, basically putting forward ideas, to create a bad image.

the tambram dependency on the goodwill of others, is now, more so than ever. someone wanted to build a new agraharam in madras. my response, to that is, in case of a riot, it is easy to identify and kills all the tambrams in one shot. the way law and order in india is going, and the way, some of the tamil nationalists are talking, it is not only probable, but a distinct possibility in the next few years, that tambrams in tamil nadu might have to leave the state rather hastily to save their lives. i am not kidding here.

in light of this, certain leaders like cho, subramaniam swamy, hindu ram..all appear to live in a world of their own. their utterances particularly towards the sri lankan massacre, has given the general impression, that tambrams support the sinhalese against the tamil cause. we did not do any medical or social service for the lankan refugees.

agreed all other tamil communities did not either. but we are isolated because of idiotic comments. OP like this also isolates us. overall i think, our tambram girls are doing the good thing, marrying out of caste, and saving themselves lot of grief.

so those who want to isolate and practise 'purity' let them go ahead and do it. they wont get my vote or support. not that it matters i guess.

the kerala iyers, being no threat, and being no body in kerala politics or society can mouth off what they want. they are only a laughing stock, and not treated with any seriousness by the rest of kerala.
 
Dear Kunjs,

I am wondering...what about the Kalyan Mandap??

Is there a caste based system too in India where Kalyan Mandap has caste based halls?

Cos what if the Kalyan Mandap was used for some other caste or religion wedding before?

So I guess Muralidharan of Iyer123 groups forgot to add that point!LOL

Smt. Renuka,

Some 50 years ago, in Trivandrum, most marriages among middle & lower middle-class tabras used to be conducted in their narrow (kowpeenam-like!) agraharam houses only, with a bamboo+ thatched coconut leaves pandal being erected covering 3 or 4 adjacent houses who were willing to allow their houses also for the celebrations. I distinctly remember that on the day previous to the jAnavAsam, the purohit/s (depending upon the orthodoxy of the girl's house) used to perform a punyaaham and sprinkle the waters so purified in all those houses. (If any ritual impurity due to possible death/delivery was present or expected as imminent, only such adjacent houses used to excuse themselves from this co-operation.

But then people started disliking - on hygiene grounds - the feast on plantain leaves served within the pandal. constructed on the main roadway. A few very large agraharam houses were then used in the place of today's mandaps. There also the punyaaham used to be there.

I feel the same method can be followed with today's mandaps also.


The main problem with tabras has been that, in their eagerness not to be left behind in the march of time and the changes, developments and conveniences which happen, the tabras have been too eager to sacrifice their only ancient inheritance - which is a sincere adherence to their sampradayas to the best possible extent. As a result the tabras have become successful as world citizens and globalized citizens but have woefully squandered away their "paithrukam".
 
Mr. K,
Are you trying to be pragmatic in this site? Does the younger generation really care about these ancient and outdates practices?
 
Mr. K,
Are you trying to be pragmatic in this site? Does the younger generation really care about these ancient and outdates practices?

not sure what you mean prasad. i try to imagine that i am a realist. pragmatism goes hand in hand with survival and prosperity, and also shedding unwanted or unvaluable baggage, which by and large we as a community have done.

some can mourn a 'loss' of some values, but in the big picture of things, with each generation, we carry less and less of the baggage handed over by the ancestor. not saying it is good or bad. just what is.

btw i think future physical threat to the community in tamil nadu exists due to increasing lawlessness and there is no champion to take care of us. the idiots like cho and swamy whip up anti brahmin sentiments to the extremes by their thoughtless remarks about srilankan tamils or ltte. when JJ goes we are open game. there is no more big brother in delhi to help us.
 
ref OP. Sh Chandrasekaran has missed out on one important item from our marriages which does not happen now, at least in Chennai. The 'Janavasam'. It doesn't take place anymore in Chennai. It used to be such a thrilling experience being paraded on the roads. Many of our earlier generation Forum members might have nostaligic memories of this event.
 
ref OP. Sh Chandrasekaran has missed out on one important item from our marriages which does not happen now, at least in Chennai. The 'Janavasam'. It doesn't take place anymore in Chennai. It used to be such a thrilling experience being paraded on the roads. Many of our earlier generation Forum members might have nostaligic memories of this event.

i did away with this for my wedding. having seen many, and many where the little paappaas, peed or poohd (#1, #2) on the lap of the groom and probably destroying the new suit.

moreover, i think, these days, the guys feel, it is ridiculous to be paraded before the whole jingbang crowds, and have strangers gape at you. otherwise, if it emanated such good feelings, why would it not be continued?

but the maalai maatral, with fat brides and balding grooms, appear to be going strong still. except nowadays, it takes two or three adults to carry the parties involved, as opposed to just a single mama's neck in the past centuries :)
 
i did away with this for my wedding. having seen many, and many where the little paappaas, peed or poohd (#1, #2) on the lap of the groom and probably destroying the new suit.

moreover, i think, these days, the guys feel, it is ridiculous to be paraded before the whole jingbang crowds, and have strangers gape at you. otherwise, if it emanated such good feelings, why would it not be continued?

but the maalai maatral, with fat brides and balding grooms, appear to be going strong still. except nowadays, it takes two or three adults to carry the parties involved, as opposed to just a single mama's neck in the past centuries :)
hi sir,

there is no maama/athai relations any more....rarely some families....one/ two kids.....sometimes own bro/sis may be busy.....now

old janavasam has gone.....janavasam is to inform to community that this guy is getting married......
 
Few pointers here:

What the OP says is achievable but at what price and willingness? How many of us would want to have a reception a week later than traditional wedding day? How many would be able to take a vacation (an leave from work) with wife after 48 days of wedding [no pun intended here!]?

1. Earlier the average bride & groom age during marriage were much lesser earlier than what it is today. I guess the tilt happened somewhere in 60's. Today at 27-30 yrs during marriage, people are far more busy with requirements to earn money. At 21-22 you are typically less burdened to earn than at 27-30. So, 5-day or 3-day marriage is very difficult though not impossible.

2. The first step to really reclaim traditions is to encourage marriages in 21-24 yrs age but not lesser than 21. It may sound impractical / laughable but imagine that the same bride & groom would be below 50 when their kids get married thereby fit enough to bring up their grandkids with cultural values and ethos. Other traditions can follow.

3. How many of us, leave alone in marriages, have non-tabra maid cook in kitchen and serving food? Don't you think that's more damaging in terms of culture? With due respect to each religion & caste, We generally associate tabra with hygiene [these days a lot of it is untrue both sides but that's tradition].
 
dear renu,

the strength of the community is to realize its weaknesses.

today tambrams are lesser and lesser in number. with the formation of kerala, the separation between tambrams and kerala iyers appear to be increasing. folks like my dad, came to madras to seek their living. the next generation went to trivandrum or cochin. all my nieces from calicut have done the same.

the community is further fragmented by distances and more so by intermarriages. so, one person reminiscing like this, is apparently harmless. except, there are readers of this forum, who have their own view, some of which, is blind hatred for brahmins. also there are, i believe, folks from other religions, pretending to be hindus, basically putting forward ideas, to create a bad image.

1. the tambram dependency on the goodwill of others, is now, more so than ever. someone wanted to build a new agraharam in madras. my response, to that is, in case of a riot, it is easy to identify and kills all the tambrams in one shot. the way law and order in india is going, and the way, some of the tamil nationalists are talking, it is not only probable, but a distinct possibility in the next few years, that tambrams in tamil nadu might have to leave the state rather hastily to save their lives. i am not kidding here.

in light of this, certain leaders like cho, subramaniam swamy, hindu ram..all appear to live in a world of their own. their utterances particularly towards the sri lankan massacre, has given the general impression, that tambrams support the sinhalese against the tamil cause. we did not do any medical or social service for the lankan refugees.

agreed all other tamil communities did not either. but we are isolated because of idiotic comments. OP like this also isolates us. overall i think, our tambram girls are doing the good thing, marrying out of caste, and saving themselves lot of grief.

so those who want to isolate and practise 'purity' let them go ahead and do it. they wont get my vote or support. not that it matters i guess.

the kerala iyers, being no threat, and being no body in kerala politics or society can mouth off what they want. they are only a laughing stock, and not treated with any seriousness by the rest of kerala.

Kunjuppu Sir,
Does the Non Brahmin political class harbour such animosity towards Brahmins that they will annihilate them if such an opportunity arises? Is it merely rhetoric of NB politicians or do such ideas carry traction with rank and file.
If such ideas do carry traction with laymen, then its scary and seems like another tragedy similar to that of Kashmiri Pandits may occur. :sad:
I thought it was only the neo khalistani loons in my ancestoral state who harboured such hatred.:mad2:
 
Kunjuppu Sir,
Does the Non Brahmin political class harbour such animosity towards Brahmins that they will annihilate them if such an opportunity arises? Is it merely rhetoric of NB politicians or do such ideas carry traction with rank and file.
If such ideas do carry traction with laymen, then its scary and seems like another tragedy similar to that of Kashmiri Pandits may occur. :sad:
I thought it was only the neo khalistani loons in my ancestoral state who harboured such hatred.:mad2:

hi delhi,

i am glad that someone else in this forum, has some interest in this topic.

first of all i think there is no such thing as 'loons'. politics and politicians manipulate people to their own ends. and while democracy is still, i think the best vehicle, for a vast and multi ethnic religious linguistic casteist country like india, there are occassions when it fails.

the beauty of democracy, ultimately lets the voice of the people, into the ruling throne. i call it throne, because it looks like the elected behave like rulers, of yore, considering the whole of their domain as personal fiefdom, and in addition to grabbing as much as they can, also ensuring dynastic continuation..starting from the nehru family and here in tamil nadu with the karunanidhis.

periyar stopped short of violence against brahmins, but i can understand his level of disgust and frustration, for the tambrams of those days, were an epitome of arrogance. all thanks to passing tenth class and getting most of the government jobs. the hitherto respected but poor brahmin, overnight lorded over the middle castes, who developed in them a deep hatred which continues to simmer. i think.

in no other state has the brahmins, with so small a population, dominated for a short while, ie late 19th and upto mid 20th century, the socioeconomicgovernmental aspect of the state. in fact in tamil nadu, it is brahmins and non-brahmins - ie 98% of the hindus were classified into one group, and treated such. ofcourse there were interactions, but were confined to the level needed for the benefit of the brahmins. atleast this is the perception of the middle castes, each with a long history, and also a combined history of tamil ancient glory and absolute love of tamil.

the tambrams loved tamil only to the extent that it played second fiddle to sanskrit, and this is another bone of contention for the other tamil tribes. add to this the race factor - the idiot tambrams of the 20th century, started believing in some hodgepodge theory that we were 'aryans' and the rest of tamil nadu 'dravidians'. it suited them then, but then, this became a great instrument for periyar and such, to cast aside the tambrams, as being from the north and called 'vandheris' or visitors, ie not sons of the soil. even though brahmins have been part of tamil nadu scene right from the sangam age, ie 2000 year BCE and documented such.

all this from the non brahmin viewpoint. the tambrams, most would disagree with the above, but the disagreement is of no consequence. the power is with the dravidians now. the trend is towards tamil nationalism ie the original tamil tribes of nadars, velalars, vaniars, dalits etc..and not the recent arrivals like naidus naickers (periyar belonged to this group) reddiars who are the bulwark of today's dmk but are of telugu or kannada origin.

the tamil nationalist are extreme in their love of tamil to the extent, that they would eventually go by racial definitions of castes and 'purity'. there is a place for brahmins there, but the tambram have been looked upon as traitors, particularly because folks like cho, hindu ram and subramaniam swamy have been openly against LTTE and also critical of tamil aspirations within lanka, ie separate eelam.

that other groups also are lukewarm is immaterial because the brahmins alone are isolated, and have no champions or support within tamil nadu. no political party wants their vote or wants to do anything with them publicly. so successful has been periyar's tirade, that today it is deeply ingrained in the tamil psyche.

the community has not been hurt financially. even though we dont get any govt jobs or admissions to govt colleges, we have been able to do rather well in the private industry. also the community started to migrate in search of greener pastures first to bombay and north india and later abroad. so today almost all tambrams have family outside of india, i suspect.

if folks like tamil nationalist take up arms, and that is a distinct possibility considering the increasing lawlessness in tamil nadu and the ineffective govt actions re kaveri water, power and failure to provide basics. also increasing sinhala suppression of tamils, would be a catalyst to combine the two tamil groups, tamilnadu and eelam, to do something, which might involve violence. and we are a dead duck with no one to take care of our interest, and we have idiot 'political experts' who would run out of the state, the first available opportunity, leaving behind a lower middle class vulnerable to attacks.

also, the next generation of dmk, though not overtly anti brahmin, if they did not win power, and needed scapegoats, would turn agaist the brahmins, as there is no love lost here too. many of our influence peddlers, who are dependent on NB patronage, like ananda vikatan or TVS have reinvented themselves. even though owned by brahmins, their management and senior staff, a significant number of NB are there, something unheard of even 25 years ago.

but folks like cho, sswamy, etc can be lightning rods to whip up anti brahmin purges or pogroms in tamil nadu. we have to be careful how we are perceived. tambrams have a history of arrogance and having no interest in winning the good will of the tamil community, like the christians or the muslims. hence the latter two, are part of any power structure, and the tambrams thanks to their short sighted attitudes and prejudices, are literally 'out in the cold' re the socio economic power structure of tamil nadu since 1967. and no chance of any participation in the future.

the tambrams have a bugbear against quotas and i think it is a silly stupid prejudice that they have. they think they can get marks and dominate like they used to in the civil service. those days are gone and high time they acknowledge it, and publicly accept the quota concept. atleast that way, they can try to get some benefits for the poor brahmins, though not large in number, do exist.

that jayalalitha is a brahmin is of no consequence. her rule is similar to the dmk, regarding brahmins. and that is that.

i think, overall the above is a view of the community through the eyes of a non tamil brahmin. tambrams ofcourse, would accept no wrong. and would insist that periyar alone is the culprit. had it not been for him, all would be hunky dory. eh!
 
Disappearing Castesl

i follow jothiji's blog. he lives in tiruppur and is a keen observer of life.

this post is an amazing observation of the disappearance of caste based professions as he sees them in tiruppur - barber, washerman, sweepers and such..all hitherto, vocationally handed down the generations..and now hardly anyone under 50 does it the old fashioned way.

well there is the new way, and guess what...thanks to training, money, and general perception, all castes now do grooming (new name for barber), dry cleaning (new name for washing) and janitor service (new name for sweepers).

there is hope. hope for india. hope for hinduism. hope only due to econonomic growth and urbanization.

there is an interesting story of a chettiar here, who willingly married off his daughter to a 'lower' caste boy. these chettiars are very clannish, btw, and marry only within the 9 villages, and all life stories are logged in books, and each one is a puLLi.

he broke caste because to him his daughter happiness was more important than gauravam. also he left his native village 40 years ago, and as he said, who cares about gauravam in tiruppur. and he has no intention of going back to his village. so he has moved on...and lives the life of a happy grandparent in a joint family with his daughter and different caste son in law :)

so many events...such a big country!!!!
 
Ref. Post #17:
In my very first post in this forum, I opined that electronic media is being used by dravidianists and their apologists to foster hatemongering against brahmins and therefore, brahmins may find the need to migrate out of tamilnadu.

Ripostes came thick and fast from this very same member who accused me of trying to incite. Now, after less than a couple of years, this member has come around to the same view :)

Of course, the member tries to justify hatemongering against brahmins by citing supposed attitudes of brahmins etc. These are hogwash. The member is only exhibiting his own prejudices against brahmins more than anything else. Hatred is a powerful tool to achieve political power. EVR used it. His followers might do the same in future. Even though to admit this after singing paeans of their favorite leader is akin to swallowing a bitter pill, doing so will be truthful and honorable!
 
There are some brahmins (like kalistanis), who harbour venomous hatred towards indian brams, ans specially tambrams. Of course, canada is the natural chosen place to voice such outbursts.

EVR knew that only brahmins will not retaliate; fortunately there are only a few evr loyalists; many ex loyalists are keen to do prayaschita for their past by doing yagams, either for rain, or for personal benefit.

Kunjuppu Sir,
Does the Non Brahmin political class harbour such animosity towards Brahmins that they will annihilate them if such an opportunity arises? Is it merely rhetoric of NB politicians or do such ideas carry traction with rank and file.
If such ideas do carry traction with laymen, then its scary and seems like another tragedy similar to that of Kashmiri Pandits may occur. :sad:
I thought it was only the neo khalistani loons in my ancestoral state who harboured such hatred.:mad2:
 
Blogs are usually reflective of individual's opinions; some of them may be opinion-makers, but that is rare AFAIK.

The idea of Tamil Eelam is a vote catcher now in T.Nadu, I think. I do not know whether JJ has also since endorsed this idea.

But looking at the Tamil Eelam issue, from what little I have learned of GK, it is rather impossible to achieve that dream, especially because China now has a military presence in SL. Even assuming, for argument's sake, that a Tamil Eelam is formed in the near future, will TN or India be capable of playing any significant role there?

The fear that tabras face genocide/eviction, on the lines of Kashmiri Pandits, seems far-fetched to me. Will some one furnish more evidence in support of such an eventuality happening?
 
Blogs are usually reflective of individual's opinions; some of them may be opinion-makers, but that is rare AFAIK.

The idea of Tamil Eelam is a vote catcher now in T.Nadu, I think. I do not know whether JJ has also since endorsed this idea.

But looking at the Tamil Eelam issue, from what little I have learned of GK, it is rather impossible to achieve that dream, especially because China now has a military presence in SL. Even assuming, for argument's sake, that a Tamil Eelam is formed in the near future, will TN or India be capable of playing any significant role there?

The fear that tabras face genocide/eviction, on the lines of Kashmiri Pandits, seems far-fetched to me. Will some one furnish more evidence in support of such an eventuality happening?

dear sangom,

nobody knows the future. nobody can predict the future. i sincerely dont know if pogroms against tambrams can happen. again, nobody thought millions of jews will be killed systematically. similarly in bosnia, cambodia, china, soviet russia and of late in somalia.

we would have thought kashmiri pandits had clout in delhi. obviously not, judging their status today. they dont even get coverage.

it takes only 100 determined people to create havoc against a community. i think there are more than 100 people in tamil nadu who hate tambrams virulently. and they have plenty of help from other religion folks, who are keen on encouraging this quarrel, and they are part of the ruling establishment in both the dravidian parties.

so all in all, when JJ leaves the scene, not only is there no tambram source of support, but if certain political groups are driven against the wall, their screamings against the brahmins get more viral and shrill. that i mention it here, is not an indication of my support for them in any way, but i feel, it is good to discuss and talk about it.

the net result of our non participation in tamil nadu politics is that we have no good will from the establishment. and we do not have the favoured status in delhi, like the way we had once. esp during indira gandhi time.

i think it is smart to know and understand the consequences, favourable or otherwise, of today's realities. that i am far away in canada, and i have few relatives in madras, makes my personal interest limited. but as a serious student of modern world history, and the quick & effective way pogroms are instigated by a few, all i saying, is look around and understand the deep socio emotional streams of tamil people. dont stand apart and pretend that if you close your eyes, the whole world darkens. that is all. this is more a plea than a judgement. hope this explains.
 
Dear Kunjs,

I am wondering...what about the Kalyan Mandap??

Is there a caste based system too in India where Kalyan Mandap has caste based halls?

Cos what if the Kalyan Mandap was used for some other caste or religion wedding before?

So I guess Muralidharan of Iyer123 groups forgot to add that point!LOL

Renu what is this kalyan mandap all? Sounds very Odia! manasula peria North Indian-nu ninaipo :p. Kalyana Mandapam sounds so much more sweeter, what!
 
the tambrams loved tamil only to the extent that it played second fiddle to sanskrit, and this is another bone of contention for the other tamil tribes. add to this the race factor - the idiot tambrams of the 20th century, started believing in some hodgepodge theory that we were 'aryans' and the rest of tamil nadu 'dravidians'. it suited them then, but then, this became a great instrument for periyar and such, to cast aside the tambrams, as being from the north and called 'vandheris' or visitors, ie not sons of the soil. even though brahmins have been part of tamil nadu scene right from the sangam age, ie 2000 year BCE and documented such.

This one had me in fits of giggles to think that Tamil played second fiddle to Sanskrit for TBs. How many TBs in TN can even speak Hindi let alone Sanskrit? OTOH they actually, speak, write and are orators of some of the best Tamil, n'est ce pas? as you always say
 
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