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Shudra can become a Brahmin

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In the Vanaparva of Maha Bharata, Yudhisthira, the Dharmaraja, had an encounter with a huge python, who was in fact king Nahusa, one of the forefathers of Yudhisthira. Nahusa, through his good deeds and piety, obtained as his reward, the throne of Heaven but then his downfall started. For he became too proud and forgot the distinction between Dharma and Adharma. He kicked at the head of sage Agastya, and was cursed, which turned him into a python for thousands of years. He had been waiting, in the form of a python, for long time, to be saved by the pious Yudhisthira through a discourse on Dharma.


So one day Nahusa (in python form) got hold of Bhima, and was about to crush him when Yudhisthira appeared in search of his brother. The fabulous power of Bhima, who used to kill endless numbers of demons, elephants, pythons etc., was of no avail. Nahusa was more powerful for he had a noble mission—a discourse on Dharma.


Nahusa said to Yudhisthira, “ I will let your brother go, if you answer my questions on Dharma”. So the discourse started. The first question was; what makes a Brahmin a Brahmin? Yudhisthira listed a number of virtues: truthfulness, generosity, forgiveness, goodness, kindness, self control and compassion—all these qualities together constitute a Brahmin. The list is not very different from the one found in Bhagavad Gita Chapter 18 verse 42.


The python asked, “But this goes against the principle of four varnas/ castes. For even a Shudra may have all these virtues. Virtues cannot be the monopoly of any caste.” Yudhisthira replied in unambiguous language, “Indeed ,if a Shudra is characterised by all these virtues, he is to be defined as a Brahmin. And if a Brahmin lacks them then he is to be regarded as a Shudra.”

The python asked again, “but if Brahminhood is constituted by a number of virtues, then birth (In a Brahmin family) would be in vain, where such virtues are conspicuous by their absence”. Yudhisthira replied, “Indeed. Since through sexual urge (raga) people copulate and produce children, birth is always a dubious criterion in such matters. Therefore, the old sages depend upon good conduct as the indicator of a better person. Even one who is a Brahmin by birth would be a Shudra through poor despicable conduct”. Yudhisthira even referred to the “self originating” (Swayambhuva) Manu as his authority.


From the book “ The Gita in World Literature”
 
Dear London ji,

If you ask me frankly Yudhisthira was lying through his teeth!

He spoke all these just to get Bhima out of the phytons grip.

For all that Yudhisthira spoke that caste is based on conduct and not birth and a Sudra can become a Brahmin by virtue of conduct and a Brahmin can become a Sudra by virtue of conduct Yudhisthira never practiced what he preached. Want to know why?


Remember when after the war..Kunti asked Yudhisthira to perform final rites for Karna..the great Yudhsithira refused stating that Karna was a Suta Putra and NOT a Kshatriya so he wont do the final rites.

So why this double standards?

Karna was a Suta Putra becos of his adoptive parents but in behavior Karna was a true Guna Kshatriya with his qualities of bravery and his benevolence(his acts of extreme selfless charity).

So Yudhisthira should have known better that Karna might be a Suta Putra but a Kshatriya by virtue of qualities/guna.

So why did he refuse to do the final rites until Kunti revealed the true story to him and worse still Yudhisthira curses that women wont be able to keep a secret for his short comings.

So you see it is becos of the Phyton Yudhisthira spoke this...if a phyton was gripping Kunti then Yudhisthira would have done the final rites even for any caste.

Sometimes when I read our scriptures I start to wonder why so many instances it seems to be illogical.

One more important thing...has anyone asked a Sudra if he would like to become a Brahmin?

A Sudra might be happy as he is...so becoming a Brahmin might not be his cup of tea.

Take it from me..I am a Non Brahmin...if you ask me would I want to be a Brahmin?

My answer is No...cos I am happy with what I was born into and I respect God's decision for each birth of mine.
 
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Even if we assume that A sudra may become a brahmin because of his guna, will other brahmins accept him as brahmin?
Will government of India classify him as Brahmin, will he himself want to be classified as a brahmin?
 
One should understand the meaning of BRAHMIN, SHUDRA, VAISHYA , KSHATRIYA.
Every one of us are acting as Brahmin or Shudra or Vaishya or Kshatriya in our daily life. When you clean your house or any other thing you are Shudra, when you are worshiping God or any such you are Brahmin , when you are doing any business transaction you are a Vaishya and similarly Kshatriya. We are as per our deed. Let us keep everything simple and not complicate. Each one of us have a separate Soul agenda and one should work to complete the agenda.
 
in this day and age, when the very concept of varna is anethema to most hindus, and which i think, has done more damage to the integration of our community, and lack of the feeling of inclusiveness of other hindus - ie love for the varna overrules the love of the religion, and where there is every day conversion to islam, christianity and godless, one should perhaps try to move towards casteless hindu.

once upon a time, maybe, and that too maybe, the attraction to be a brahmin, might have existed. that too i dont know. but what i know is that today, to even think of such things, is a level of out of touch with reality of today social economic political realities. as renu rightly said, she is pretty happy being what she is. the brahmins can keep their castes and exclusivity, while they see their own younger generation abandoning the concept and moving in sync with the rest of the world.

it took me a while to keep this post polite and acceptable. that i wish to say, because i am pained with attitudes of tambrams like this. we have not learned our lessons. atleast a good portion of us. the OP does not even realize the term shudra is an insult. such is the level of insensitivity.
 
Mr. K,
I can feel your pain.
There are very insensitive comments in the OP. To think that he lives outside of TN, and that too in England.
 
in this day and age, when the very concept of varna is anethema to most hindus, and which i think, has done more damage to the integration of our community, and lack of the feeling of inclusiveness of other hindus - ie love for the varna overrules the love of the religion, and where there is every day conversion to islam, christianity and godless, one should perhaps try to move towards casteless hindu.

once upon a time, maybe, and that too maybe, the attraction to be a brahmin, might have existed. that too i dont know. but what i know is that today, to even think of such things, is a level of out of touch with reality of today social economic political realities. as renu rightly said, she is pretty happy being what she is. the brahmins can keep their castes and exclusivity, while they see their own younger generation abandoning the concept and moving in sync with the rest of the world.

it took me a while to keep this post polite and acceptable. that i wish to say, because i am pained with attitudes of tambrams like this. we have not learned our lessons. atleast a good portion of us. the OP does not even realize the term shudra is an insult. such is the level of insensitivity.

Dear K,

The Original poster's contributions normally do not attract my attention, because these have no value according to me. He seems to collect from several sources and do a good enough job of collating and putting them here.

I think he has simply reproduced the above from some book.

While we may go on discussing here about castes and their evil, etc., (in fact I also used to believe that brahmins created castes, but ) it seems there was / is a system akin to caste among the various tribes and what the ancient brahmins did was merely accepting these chronic differences between the indigenous tribes and classify all the tribes into two or three large baskets.

For example, the accounts of foreign merchants etc., show that the pulayas of Malabar and Travancore insisted most vehemently on the pariahs, ulladans and other jungle-tribes to keep a certain distance, and the pulayas were so zealous of this rule, although they (the pulayas) themselves were serfs and could be traded between high caste owners and could also be used (husband & wife) as plough animals. (Good gender equality for today's women's libbers, I think!!)

Hence, brahmins may not have been the villains who originated the caste hierarchy. Much more inquiry/research needs to be done on this topic. Anyway, caste is alive and well in India, and will continue strongly, thanks to our political parties and vote banks.
 
dear sangom,

re your post #6

many a times, in the name of erudtion and research, we bring up ancient theories. i am not always sure if the purpose of such a study is to revive or explain. it really does not matter.

the term shudra, in my opinion, is deragatory. atleast in the context of modern tamil nadu. the OP would not dare use that word in the streets of chennai, or anywhere else in tamil nadu. so absolute has been the sense of abhorration over some terms, thanks to periyar.

that caste exists even now, and stronger too, i have no issues there. all my point, is to desist using the term shudra, and his apparent 'upgrade' to brahmin, which is what the OP, atleast the way i understood it, to be. it puts us, in even worse light than what we currently are, and gives the impression, that none of us have learned from the past. that is all.
 
Dear all

Thanks for reading and posting comments.
The underlying message is good qualities alone will make oneself great.
We have heard several stories like Dharmavyadhan in Mahabharata and Guhan in Ramayana. Rama called him a brother.

Words change their meaning in course of time. Pariah was not derogatory during Sangam period. Gandhiji coined a respectful word HARIJANS. In course of time that itself earned bad connotation.
Shudra was made a derogatory term by constant propaganda of DK and DMK. In Vedic times it was one of the caste terms (See Purushasuktam), not derogatory.

The posted was from a scholarly book. Even the author did not hesitate to quote it from MB. But we must not forget the message he gives. Virtues are the deciding factor. Even Valluvar did not hesitate to define who is a Brahmin. Buddha defines Brahminhood in Dhammapada; a whole chapter is devoted for it.

Andhanar Enpor Aravor Marrevvuyirkkum
senthanmai Pundu Ozkalaan --Kural 30

Renuka,

Vyasa did a great job by compiling whatever available in his time. If he had not done it we would have lost all the four Vedas. he has cramped all that was available at his time. So there may be contradictions in the MB. But these apparent contradictions will disappear if you look at it as a whole.

Regarding Karana as Suta putra, it has been there from the very beginning of MB story. Vyasa may be great, but he followed the laws of the land and rules of the day. Even Rama banished Sita because of the public criticism. We have been debating all these for ages. Whether Rama killing Vali, Krishna helping Arjuna by manipulating is right or wrong. End justifies means.

Karna did a blunder by blindly supporting Duryodhana, just for making him King of Anga Desa, when the Suta Putra issue arose. So you cant expect Vyasa's sympathy for him. In short, dont look at individual events, but look at it as a whole. Dharmo Rakshati Rakshita:
President of Indonesia Sukarno's father was a great devotee of Karna. He was a Muslim. When a boy was born to him he wanted to name him Karnan. But knowing that Karna supported the baddies, he named his son Su+Karna = good Karna. So even in the eyes of a modern Muslim, Karna did not get full support.

About me lifting from other books:

Whenever I give some matter from other books, I will always tell the readers.
Whenever I give my views or interpretations on old events, I publish it as my own.
As I am throwing all the old paper cuttings and photo copies (accumulated over 40 years) in to dustbin one by one, I publish a few 'which are interesting'. Readers may not agree with me, it doesn't matter. At least we know there are people with such views.

I published a post '45 commentaries on Gita'. Though I have added many names to the matter lifted from Mainkar's book, I did not include one more commentary written by a DK leader under the title BHAGAVTH GEETHAI ORU KOLAI NUUL ( Gita is a book of murders/killings). I received it for review while I was a Senior Sub Editor in Dinamani, Madurai.This is to show that I use my discretion. But it is up to the readers to take it or reject it.I welcome positive and negative comments.It is a pleasure to read them.

Kalidasa says Loko Binna Ruci: ( Variety is the spice of life)
 
london,

what you are saying is that till recently the word 'ni&&er' to denote american black was acceptable. so i will use it, only because i mean in those times. smilarly, addressing a person of chinese ancestry, 'ch**k'.

there is another hot thread, where sensible readers have objected to the use of the 'p**i' to denote, us, our own brown skinned people in england. you are indeed a lucky one, if no one addressed you such in old blighty.

you live in london, and see if the english use the word 'gollywog' anymore

if these dont make sense to you, i think, you still have not learned sensitivities, inspite of your so impeccable journalistic career. what a shame. wonder what it taught you, sorry to say sir.

when i tell you the term shudra is derogatory today, and using it here in this forum, you bring no kudos to this body, but probably put praveen as a tolerator of bigots. just learn to be more sensitive to our fellow hindus london, if not for yourself, for the sake of other tambrams and for the sake of goodness.
 
I dont have a problem with the word Shudra..to me it is just a classification of a Varna even though technically it means small/lesser.
I dont want to even blame any Varna for starting the caste system cos I know even many Non Brahmins out here think no end of themselves and look down upon the so called lower caste..so caste system is not a Brahmin phenomenon alone..this I clearly understand.

What I am not comfortable with is the thought that religion seems to imply that everyone would want to a Brahmin.

We have to be frank and admit and accept that Varna is birth based...no problems with that either but what we lack in our understanding is RESPECT.

Respect is needed for anyone from any Varna or any social standing or profession.


I remember when I was teen aged some 14 this happened in the town I lived in.

It was a small town and there used to be one Indian lady who used to work as a sex worker.

She was married and had 3 kids with a useless drunkard husband..whenever she would walk around town..other married women would just hate to see her and turn their faces away and mutter something or the other.


One day she came to the restaurant we were eating in and she smiled at me...so I smiled back cos after all what do I lose returning a smile.

My mother started at me with anger filled eyes like how Lord Shiva started at Kama Deva!LOL

When I reached home...all hell broke loose and I was given a proper scolding by mother and she told me "why did u smile at her? do you know what she works as..she is a bad character woman"

So I told my mum "yes I know what she works as but she only smiled at me..so I smiled back"

My mum still scolded me that you are not supposed to smile at a sex worker.

Then since my mum used to take Bal Vikas classes every Sunday in the Sai Mandir..so I asked her 'then why do you keep teaching us in Bal Vikas class that respect everyone and try to see God in everyone ?"

My mum told me to shut up.

So you see what I mean...we humans do not fully respect anyone whom we find not within our own code of conduct.

I know that my mum meant well but her approach was wrong..she could have told me that a sex worker leads risky life which is not much held in esteem by society and risks getting sexually transmitted disease..so if she smiles at you..there is no harm smiling back but don't let her influence you in anyway and don't consider being like her..it is not a happy life.

So what I am trying to say here is...we need to respect anyone..

I have seen many times online many people describing Dr APJ Abdul Kalam as even Kalam Iyer becos of his qualities.

This I find is not fair cos you see when a person is good and has good qualities..that does not mean he has Brahmanical qualities...he is being a true Human and in this case a true Muslim.

So we need to give credit to each Varna/Religion and not think that only our Varna/Religion is the best after all didnt the Python in the story say :"Virtues cannot be the monopoly of any caste.”


The Phyton spoke such clear lucid words but yet again in our religion we are supposed to get rid of animal qualities!LOL
 
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President of Indonesia Sukarno's father was a great devotee of Karna. He was a Muslim. When a boy was born to him he wanted to name him Karnan. But knowing that Karna supported the baddies, he named his son Su+Karna = good Karna. So even in the eyes of a modern Muslim,


Dear Sir,

It was good move that he was name Sukarno and not Karna becos no politician is like Karna.
Politicians only take and milk the country but not benevolent like Karna.

So thank God Karna's name was not tarnished.

To me Karna was right in staying with Duryodhana cos Karna is a man of virtues and not a back stabber that bites the hand that fed him.

Duryodhana also had some good qualities as to respect Karna and to see his qualities and virtues.

After all even Lord Krishna was all praises for Karna and even told to Arjuna that Karna is even more selfless than Yudhisthira.

Frankly the Pandavas failed to impress.
 
Dear Kunjippu

Thanks for your comments.

I will never use the word Shudra in my thread. I have not used it in any derogatory sense.
The one we are discussing now is a quote from another book.
I will not hesitate to use goolywag, Nigger, Paki etc. from old books to illustrate that they were wrong in using them or to give a good message like the one I posted under A Shudra can become a Brahminl
If anyone does not see the message that "qualities and virtues are the deciding factors in establishing one's Caste", it is not my fault or the author's fault.

Till we establish a Caste less society, this type of arguments will keep going.
Even Ambedkar's prediction of establishing a caste less society (in 25 years or so) failed.
I dont know whether we will be able to do it in our own life time.
Personally I believe in a caste less society where everyone is elevated to Brahminhood (An Utopia?!)

Renuka
Talking about Abdul Kalam, former President of India, he is more than an Iyer.
The tradition of Rameswaram temple is to give his family high honours (Mudhal Mariyathai=Fiirst Respect/honour) ,being the original inhabitants of the island. When I took a Sri Lankan friend from London to the temple, Kalam's close relative ( a Muslim) took us around the temple and we were given 'Royal treatment'.
 
Personally I believe in a caste less society where everyone is elevated to Brahminhood (An Utopia?!)

Dear Sir,

There you go again!LOL

Why should a caste less society have to mean elevation to Brahminhood?

The very choice of the word elevation denotes that others are at a lower level.

A caste less society will be a society where people realize what being a true human is all about.

As in Geeta...no one can elevate us or degrade us except our own self.

A man must elevate himself by his own mind, not degrade himself. The mind is the friend of the conditioned soul, and his enemy as well.
 
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Funny, but true.

The applicant, irrespective of his varna, can mark his caste as brahmin. It will be accepted as such and no supporting documents are necessary. Only when someone claims he is a SC/ST/OBC/RM/LM, he has to produce proof.

There are many institutions with minority status; 50% of the seats are reserved for the minority community which started the college. It is another story.

Veda patasalas which prepare students for regular examinations as well specify that applicants must have had upanayanam.



Even if we assume that A sudra may become a brahmin because of his guna, will other brahmins accept him as brahmin?
Will government of India classify him as Brahmin, will he himself want to be classified as a brahmin?
 
The words nigger, gollywog, wog and the like were from the beginning used to abuse and meant to convey a specific insult. The word 'shudra' was never an insulting word except in modern post DK days. Whether in college or IIT days, we had less than 20% brahmins and a about 40% non chettys and reddys. There never was any friction in discussing the caste, traditions, food, way of life or any topic under the sun, including teasing eves. The ganging up against brahmins is a political and power centric phenomenon of the EVR type people. Even though it helped in the beginning to get number support, the game is understood by all. Mayavati's guru, kanshi ram, thought that with the numerical strength of dalits spread all over india, he can win majority and come to power at the centre. All his and mayavati's dreams have evaporated, and both mayavati and akilesjh yadhav want brahmins' support.

Shudra is not a derogatory word. It is classification, that is all. People who recite gita or shasranama or ramyana will find that word, not in a derogatory sense, anywhere. Or for that matter bharatiyar poems.

When an individual says - don't call me by my caste- then his wish must be respected and followed.

Why the term 'dalits' and calling them as 'dalits' is acceptable when as per the laws of the country they are at the bottom of the economic and social order. The brahmins have nothing to do with this classification.

london,

what you are saying is that till recently the word 'ni&&er' to denote american black was acceptable. so i will use it, only because i mean in those times. smilarly, addressing a person of chinese ancestry, 'ch**k'.

there is another hot thread, where sensible readers have objected to the use of the 'p**i' to denote, us, our own brown skinned people in england. you are indeed a lucky one, if no one addressed you such in old blighty.

you live in london, and see if the english use the word 'gollywog' anymore

if these dont make sense to you, i think, you still have not learned sensitivities, inspite of your so impeccable journalistic career. what a shame. wonder what it taught you, sorry to say sir.

when i tell you the term shudra is derogatory today, and using it here in this forum, you bring no kudos to this body, but probably put praveen as a tolerator of bigots. just learn to be more sensitive to our fellow hindus london, if not for yourself, for the sake of other tambrams and for the sake of goodness.
 
I think you had said this earlier and there was a reply by me.

After the war, dhritarashtra ordered yudhishtra to do mass cremation and mass rites for all those killed in battle. Y did this. He then did special rites for his relatives and for the leaders who fought on his side. Karna was not in the list. When kunti wanted karna's name to be included, he wanted to know why. Not because karna is suta putra. He admonished kunty for the secret, but did the final rites, after kunti spilled the truth.

Yudhishtra never lied.

Remember when after the war..Kunti asked Yudhisthira to perform final rites for Karna..the great Yudhsithira refused stating that Karna was a Suta Putra and NOT a Kshatriya so he wont do the final rites.

So why this double standards?
 
I think you had said this earlier and there was a reply by me.

After the war, dhritarashtra ordered yudhishtra to do mass cremation and mass rites for all those killed in battle. Y did this. He then did special rites for his relatives and for the leaders who fought on his side. Karna was not in the list. When kunti wanted karna's name to be included, he wanted to know why. Not because karna is suta putra. He admonished kunty for the secret, but did the final rites, after kunti spilled the truth.

Yudhishtra never lied.

This is not the version of Mahabharat that I had read when I was younger.

I read a version by a famous Indian author whose name I cant remember now.

What I read clearly mentioned Yudhisthira telling Kunti why should I do final rites for a Suta Putra?

anyway even online it says this:

[h=3]After Karna's death[/h]Following the Kurukshetra war, Tarpan vidhi were performed for all the fallen. Kunti then requested her sons to perform the rites for Karna as well. When they protested, saying he was a Sūta, she revealed the truth of his birth. The brothers were shocked to find that they had committed fratricide. Yudhishtira, in particular, was furious with his mother and laid a curse upon all women that they should never thereafter be able to keep a secret.


Karna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Hi Renuka

“Elevating everyone to Brahminhood “ is not my words. Swami Vivekananda’s words. But I couldn’t find the exact passage. What I meant was one caste, Brahmins only, as we had in Sathya Yuga. Don’t get confused with the Brahminhood and the present Brahmin caste. One who seeks Brahman is a Brahmin.
I give one relevant passage from Swami Vivekananda’s speeches:

“The Brahminhood is the ideal of humanity in India, as wonderfully put forward by Shankaracharya, at the beginning of his commentary, on the Gita, where he speaks about the reason for Krishna’s coming as a preacher for the preservation of Brahminhood, of Brahminess. That was the great end. This Brahmin, the man of God, he who has known Brahman, the ideal man, the perfect man, must remain; he must not go. And with all the defects of the caste now, we know that we must all be ready to give to the Brahmins this credit, that from them have come more men with Brahminess in them than from all the other castes………………………Remember the old English proverb, “ Give everyman his due”.
Therefore, my friends, it is no use fighting among the castes. What good will it do?...............................
Page 284, Selections from The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda, Advaita Ashrama, Calcutta
*****

Sri Sathya Sai Baba refused to go to a town where there was no Brahimn Veda Patasala . It was in the beginning. He praised Brahmins sky high and gave a lot to Brahmin priests. Read his early speeches.
So Brahminness/Brahminhood is different from the Brahmins of today. I am a Brahmin. But I have no brahminness. But I believe in Brahminhood and I want to become a real Brahmin at least in my next birth, if not in this birth. A person who has done Veda Adhyayana, who does Tri Kala Sandhayvandhana, a person who does Aupasana, a person who seeks Brahman, a person who looks inside ( Andhaththai Anavuvaar Andhanar), a person who does not have provision for more than three days…that is brahminness.
 
I like the idea of seeking Brahmana. Now suppose somebody is a software engineer. There are many Brahmins in this profession, as well as non-Brahmins. Can somebody seek Brahmana in software code? Can a software engineer become a Brahmin even if they dont perform Trikala Sandhya?

Similar question for scientists. If somebody discovers a universal truth, can he/she also be considered a Brahmin? Surely something like the theory of gravitation or the theory of relativity is part of Brahmana? In that respect would Newton and Einstein be Brahmins?
 
*****

Sri Sathya Sai Baba refused to go to a town where there was no Brahimn Veda Patasala ..

Dear Sir,

This is not true...Sathya Sai Baba has even gone to Uganda to see Idi Amin.

I dont think there are Veda Patashalas in Uganda.


2Q==
 
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Dear London ji,

If you go by the definition that Brahminhood = realization of Brahman..then fair enough but at the same time that would translate that there are hardly Brahmins in the world cos how many actually realize Brahman?
 
Dear London ji,

Since you had quoted words of Swami Vivekananda..I would like to state this.

If you read His works..no doubt I have great respect for Him that is why I choose to type the word Him with a capital H...but at the same time I would like to say that at times Swami had displayed some amount of caste bias.

I remember reading His works where He was addressing some westerners about the virtue of Indian women that they never remarried after death of husband unlike the west.

But Swami chose to say that "In India you will never find the upper caste Indian women marrying again after death of their husbands"

I felt that statement was caste biased..why only praise Upper Caste woman and look down upon lower caste women..it was not as if lower caste women were marrying again too after death of husband.

So you see for a person who cried when He saw the people in west enjoying in luxury but His fellow Indians were living in poverty I always wonder why He only chose to glorify Upper Caste woman.

Sometimes somethings make you wonder....is there such thing as equality??
 
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Renuka

All scientists are seekers of truth, but not the Brahman.They did not pray for Moksha.
The word Brahma Nirvanam is used in Bhagavad Gita and Upanishads in scores of places.

More over with the scientists we dont know their personal life/character. If you read the life of most of the scientists , you will loose respect for them, miserable and horrible. I have a book about Anecdotes from famous scientists and explorers. Scientists awere immoral rakes, explorers were murderers, they massacred people like animals.

But in India Vatsyayana who wrote Kamasutra was a rishi, Panini who wrote the first Grammatical Treatise in the world, was called Bhagawan by Maharishi Patanjali. They were people with good character and high aim in life.

As for Sathya Sai Baba

His only foreign visit was to Uganda.

We did not know why he met Idi Amin, who drove Indians out of Kenya,Uganda and Tanganyka. Most of those Gujaratis are my friends in London now. Who knows his purpose?Probably to save Indians from a big massacre?

But read his early speeches. What he has said about Brahmins was published by my father in Madurai. But my father published that bit as a part of Baba's important speeches-- No propaganda for Brahmins.
 
Dear London ji,


The scientist question was asked by Biswa and not me.

BTW sir...I am very neutral minded..I dont see things as Brahmin propaganda but I rather see logic.

Yes I am aware that Sathya Sai Baba talks highly about Brahmins who are in the profession of priest hood.

All of us too respect priest of any religion.

I once had 2 Brahmin priests from India staying in my house cos they had come for some prayers at my FIL house.

I bought new mattresses and pillows for them..new plates for them to eat on.

Supplied them with new full male shower and bathing set.

All utensils used to make their food was new..even though I am vegetarian myself but since the priest did not eat Onion and Garlic I made sure the utensils used for them was new and never been exposed to onion and garlic.

My mother cooked the meals for them since she is a Brahmin and I did not cook any meal for them since I am Non Brahmin cos I am not sure if they had eaten any food prepared by a Non Brahmin before.

I do not believe in caste on a personal basis but for a priest I would respect him and follow what he believes in.

Coming to Idi Amin.

Idi Amin is the only person Baba visited outside of India.

We have no idea who Idi Amin could have been in a previous birth and what connection he had with Baba but Idi Amin is lucky to have been the only person in this world where Baba personally visited all the way from India.

I had read a story before where Idi Amin spared the life of an Indian business man who had done Anna Danam for Ugandan children.

I dont think Baba only think of Indians to save them.For Baba everyone is the child of God.

So His visit could have had deeper meanings that we still dont know.

But the fact still remains that Baba did visit a place without a Veda Pathashala too.
 
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