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Veda Classes for All Castes

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Veda agamam school to all caste

This is an email I got from another friend please give your valuable input.

Dear Friends,
I like to inform you about an important
matter which is very very important to our sri vaishnavam. Important
thing is that no one should mistake me . The government of tamil
nadu is planning open a Veda agamam school to all caste of people
for teaching agamam .
Firstly a banner has posted from last two weak in front of
triplcane temple , sriragam temple, and other 4 siva temple by
Tamil nadu government stating people of all caste can becoming priest
of Hindu temple ,the application form for course & training are
available here & also saying those who attend the training will get
free space ,food, money during there training classes .In response to
this ,work has taking place in very fast manner for arranging space &
at triplicane .

This is very great danger to our sri vaishnavam , because without
panchasamskarm, he is not eligible to become even sri
vaishnava ,then how can he become a priest of perumal koil ,

Then secondly in sri vaishnavam one should not have faith in
other godess other than perumal what is the assurance that he is
not having faith in other godess . If he has faith other gods that is
very shame our Sri vaishnavam

Thirdly he must follow all rules that has told in agamas which is
hard for to follow which is very new to him.

Fourthly as government announced to give free space ,food, money, one
who is not really interested he may also come to join the class for
above mentioned facilities he may be unqualified to do the priest
jobs .

Even though there is no caste difference in sri vaishnavam, To be
true person from bharamin sri vaishnava family will only marry
girl from other bharamin sri vaishnava family and not from ab
bharamin sri vaishnava family.

Again to be true Great scholars and vedvans other many people how
come to do the kaingarium in temple like chanting Vedas etc, will
not take food outside there houses & temple. If above thing happen
many of then will not come temple, this is a great loss to our sri
vaishnavam which is all ready in a very bad state. .

If we allow this now next they will tell us to change way for doing
puja to perumal ask us to do the puja in Tamil . Next they will
put the order to keep other goddess in our temple and ask us what's
wrong in that .

Sixthly government say itself as secular government but only Hindu
temple are only under the control government while church and masque
are in there own control

I like to remember you that Karnataka high court has stated before
lost twoo months that it is
Highly unconstitutional keep Hindu temple under government control
while other religion temple
are in there own control

our Sri vaishnavam is culture which is developed by many great
scholars like sri ramanuja sri pillailokachrya and many, Even though
they fought for equality I don't think that they had supported for
this kind freedom& revaluations . One more important thing is that
if theyare following Hindu dharma in temple it is clearly stated only
fixed person(bharamin )should do the puja to god no one has any
right to change this .

It may be like this ,To expose this truth sri ramanujar has no
chance accept sri thiru kachinabegal as achyra , only sri nimbigal
has chance accept ramnuja as achyra.

I very very kindly request great scholars and vedvans specially
vanamamali swami and ahobliam swami and other people to take
necessary action in this matter and save our Sri vaishnavam. Let us
not wait for any miracle to happen by keeping our fingers crossed
lets unit and fight to save our great Sri vaishnavam.

If there is any wrong thing in my passage or if I accidentally hutted
any one heart by writing the above paragraph I kindly ask them sorry
by bow down in there feet . If i hutted any it would be an
unknowing one .If there any wrong in the paragraph kindly request
controller of groups not post paragraph in groups. Feedbacks are
welcomed

Thankingyou,

adyeinRamanuja dasan
 
sir- if priests from non bramins are appointed as archakas in temples not following agamas, then no problem.

the dmk govt. is trying to impose on hinduism practices of abrahamic religions like islam & christianity where it is said any one can become a priest if he is a follower of that religion. but in those religions, there is only one god. but in hinduism, not only sects are different, many sects have different gods of their own. for e.g. for saiva hindus only siva is lord , but for vaishnavaites only lord vishnu is god, even though both saivas & vaishanavas are hindus. so what is applicable for those religions is not applicable for hinduism.

another apology for this move is that the present arrangement is 'discriminatory' as only bramins are allowed to become priests. what is discrimination? a class of people indulging in hegemony over another opposite class of people. but here even bramins are restricted from becoming priests, as it is only a hereditary service. so how can this be called discriminatory?

if this is allowed, tomorrow someone could say that the practice in temples
of leaving slippers outside is an insult to leather industry, and so this 'discriminatory' practice should be stopped! another person could say that since india has the 2nd largest population in the world, 100 persons, and not 11 players as at present, should be allowed to play in indian cricket team in international matches in future in each and every game, on the principle of social justice!
the motive of the dmk govt. is malafide. this move is based onthe foolish principle that specific 'ineqalities' can be abolished by legislation. it was on this same stupied principle that 'rationalism' & 'communism' were born. and both these 'ideologies' have flopped all over the world. the dmk chiefminister of t.nad is desperately looking for non issues to divert people's attention from all round failure of dmk govt.

there are many areas were even international govts. cannot interfere! for e.g. the rules & regulations of a various sports are framed by international council's of various games, and not govt. of any sort - national or international- have any control over these councils like international cricket council.temples rules are based on the principle of SANATHANA DHARMA .i.e. permanent principles. you either accept or reject it, but nobody has any right to change it.

what is wrong in continuing existing arrangement, particularly when there is no guarantee whatsoever that the new arrangement will be better than existing one???
 
Dear friends,
i am not competent to speak on this issue.

my first reaction: cheap gimmicks by naastikas.Also violation of ancient norms.
 
I read and heard that OBCs resent adi dravidas becoming priests

Not sure either if the jobs in the temples are helping the priests financially much. They gert as little as Rs350 per month.
So other caste people may not join at all.

My father told many OBCs/MBCs resent that a dalit can become a priest. They say it openly to him.
Even auto drivers in chennai from obc castes tell my father this . So I dont think this wil lhappen in practice.

I also read an article on this (india today or outlook or week) where it was mentioned that OBCs dont like this concept .

I myself am not familiar with the temple rituals. Therefore frankly I do not know what to say.

God is there! He will take care . ( does not mean I dont want to do anything. But I do not know what god's stand on this is? It is his house of worship .. I really don't know ).

Unless brahmins are in majority in TN how can we stop this ? It can only be stopped by God's will if he so desires.

Besides new temples are being created. They are privately owned -- by various communities. These communities prefer to keep brahmins as priests.
Also these new temples are created in/near thenew poppulation centres unlike the olden centres like tanjore, tirunelveli etc. So I am not sure if brahmins will remain in those old poppulation centres where there is not much activity anymore and the poppulation is shifting to urban cities anyway. Rajaraj built a temple in his capital city. But now that is not a main ciity anymore. So new temples will be created in new places.

Hope I did not say any unthinkable things... I really dont know. If this posting is not ok , it can be deleted.
 
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My take

Just as other members have pointed out, i am not competent enough to comment on this except that :

a) On a larger point, i welcome this. My point being, instead of "thrusting" anyone & everyone to the role of the priest, the Govt has come up with an action plan to "train people". This in itself, IMHO, a recognition of the fact that the "job" (????) is not just "aspirational" but comes with lot of "learning-training-practice" which perhaps has been the plank of brahmins for quite sometime.

b) On the negative side, my concern is whether this will be a "breeding ground" for corruption, which i fear most.

c) Another view is whether the role of priest is a profession or a way of life. I am not competent again to comment, but, but if the priesthood is a way of life, i suspect whether the "trainees" would proceed to lead one such life. What will be the "concessions" that will be sought be these "trainees" and whether such concessions would go on to dilute & eventually hit the very base of the temple system.

d) IMHO there are much better ways to present the egalitarian face of the society. I hope & pray that this move doesn't erode certain aspects of the Hindu religion which is very dear to the followers.

In a lighter vein, i just hope that some DK guys don't get into this role & setup a "Periyar Book shop" inside the temple premises & Mr Goundamani insisting that we buy a book on EVR at the temple. !!!!!

PS : Goundamani sir, just chumma, dont take it seriously.
 
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Yellow Shawlists On Path Of Self Destruction!

SIR - only a person who has had SAMAASHREYAM i.e. imbibing (i.e. tatooing) of holy sri chakra on both of your hands is considered a vaishnava. and Sammashreyam is only for bramins. so how can non bramins who are not even qualified to have samaashreyam, be considered for priesthood? like that upanayanam is also only for bramins. again, non bramins who are not qualified to sport sacred thread cannot be appointed as priests. some non bramins do wear thread, but this is by no means 'sacred'.
There are so many sacrifices which a person has to make if he is to be a priest in orthodox temples. there are restrictions on diet, conditions about way of dressing and so on. i don't think these 'new' 'priests' will be even knowing about these, let alone following them!
even meat eaters can now become priests as per dmk govt's 'new' agama. BTW, in almost all the temples, there are orthodox priests already. so where will these new 'priests' be appointed? where is place for them? are new temples going to be constructed? by whom? govt? is this job of govt. in a secular democracy?

it is also wrong to say a person can be a bramin only by birth. any female who marries a male bramin, any person who is adopted by a male bramin & any person born to a male bramin (even if mother is a non bramin) are also considered bramins.
On this auspicious day of rama navami, one hopes this ill fated move of yellow shawlists ,along with their other 'noble' objectives like destroying Lord Ramar bridge in rameswaram meets its nemesis.
even founding fathers of indian constitution did not think hereditary service in temples is violation of charter. even law does not demand this. courts have also ruled that there is no infringement of fundamental rights in hereditary priesthood service in temples. priests were allowed hereditary monopoly of service to ensure a permanent way of living for them as an appreciation of the sacrifice they had made for devoting themselves to temple service. where will they go if their monopoly is suddenly & heartlessly plucked like this for no fault of theirs??

vibishina advised ravana not to usurp wife of another man. but the saner appeal fell on deaf ears. ravana with power in hands became arrogant & met his waterloo. 'VINAASHA KAALE VIPAREETHA BUDDHI' it is said in ramayana. i.e. when a person's end is approaching, the fellow's thinking & behaviour will automatically get suicidal. yellow shawlists are marching towards the path of self destruction, and it seems no amount of saner appeal can stop them .
 
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THE UGLY FACE OF YELLOW SHAWLISM!
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sir- why are yellow shawlists trying to impose in t.nadu a practice which is not there in any other state or country?
BTW, notice that yellow shawlists are not insisting on women becoming priests. this is because, in islam the favourite religion of yellow shawlists, women are not even allowed to enter mosques, leave alone becoming priests! so following this standard, yellow shawlists are not striving for priesthood for women in temples, even though being hindus, hindu women are also eligible for priesthood.
there was a time when non bramins converted to brahminism and they were also accepted as bramins as was the practice in those days. but since many of these convertees indulged in practices not in conformity with established traits of brahminism, it was decided to put an end to conversions to brahminism from other faiths, to protect DISTINCTNESS of brahminism. so non bramins were not allowed to enter orthodox temples, wear sacred thread, have samaashreyam, or even read scriptures. even non bramins accepted this compromise, as the motive of this arrangement was not to emphasise superiority of bramins,but only to safeguard the distinct identity of brahminism, by restricting the spread of bramin traits within bramin fold only. it is centuries since this happened. now, how can you suddenly change this arrangement, when it had been accepted by all castes themselves before? it were these same yellow shawlists who once said that bramins had to work only in temples and they should not work outside temples. and now,they are trying to usurp the only source of income & livelihood of orthodox priests, just like ravana usurped sita.
but if scriptures are to be strictly followed, non bramins cannot even enter temples, work in temples or even read the scriptures! so total adherence to scriptural norms in present days will be more troublesome for non bramins than bramins. so it is important 'rationalists' stop misquoting scriptures.
in films, we would have seen many non bramins dressing as bramins! yellow shawlists being film makers, have converted temples into cinema shooting spots, where non bramins are sought to be projected as bramins after sporting some bramin symbols! traditionally, once a bramin boy reaches 7 yrs. upanayanam is performed and he starts sporting a sacred thread. but these non bramins priests do not have any thread at all even though they have well crossed the age limit! nowadays, even among bramins knowledge about shastras is low. that being the case how many non bramins know about shastras, leave alone following them?
 
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I think as a Hindu, I do not have an issue with people of other castes becoming priests in temples. In fact, in a majority of small temples like Devi temples, the Moopanar caste (offshoot of the Thevars) serve as priests. But, the political expedient of seeming to remove Brahmanas from prominent positions, is what is highly objectionable. The KKK fascist parties want to ensure that Brahmanas are removed from prominent positions where they can influence people, or serve in roles accorded respect. Once this happens, any lingering respect for Brahmanas will also fade away, and the marginalization of the community in TN society will be complete. I am sure most of the people encouraged to apply to these posts will be DMK sympathizers anyway.

But, Brahmanas can also ensure that for private functions like weddings, shraddams, and other rituals, they only invite Brahmana priests by checking up references. Also, by increasing donations to the Matths like Kanchi, Sringeri, etc, they can help support Brahmana priests who can continue to preserve the traditions and culture. Once the Brahmanas have the economic means, like the Jains and the Sikhs, they can build their own famous temples from money raised within the community, and appoint their own priests, and the fame of such temples is sure to grow.

Unfortunately, Brahmanas, because their numbers are low, cannot make a big political impact, and the best strategy may be to lie low and wait for the people themselves realize the value of Brahmanas until then. After all, there must have been a very good reason why the Tamil kings invited Brahmanas to officiate at their temples, instead of choosing from the local populace. Quality and value always wins out in the end.
 
Unfortunately, Brahmanas, because their numbers are low, cannot make a big political impact, and the best strategy may be to lie low and wait for the people themselves realize the value of Brahmanas until then. After all, there must have been a very good reason why the Tamil kings invited Brahmanas to officiate at their temples, instead of choosing from the local populace. Quality and value always wins out in the end.

This is a good strategy in view of the low numbers now. But perhaps should all brahmins then move out of TN and settle in other state. Preferably they should be in the voters list in one area or contiguous areas comprising a chunk of legislative seats. Then only when they stick together and grow in numbers can there by any political impact. Otherwise it is really difficult. On the other hand they may continue to stay in small numbers and distributed throughout TN. But because of such moves by DMK etc, they will slowly be replaced in temples as well as everywhere else. Already in state govt offices they do not exist. Next central govt offices in TN, then they want in private sectors and temples. So their plan is for ethnic cleansing.
Better that the brahmins in TN make use of the booming reeal estate prices now and exit out. Some may continue working in private sectors there, but it is better they all buy property outside TN in a good place and settle in one contiguous location(s).
But I am convinced that they are fools if they think that once all brahmins have been removed, then it wil be all milk and honey flowing there in TN. Ofcourse not! only after that you will see violent caste clashes in TN .
Already there are so many caste based parties and clashes. We have had thevar vs dalit and vanniar vs dalit clashes. We also had thevar vs nadar clashes. Going forward it will be thevar vs vanniyar etc etc.

Only then they will realise the value of the benign presence of brahmins , just the way kings like rajaraja etc found out. And maybe invite them back.

I have settled outside TN . I may come there to make some money. but I never see me settling back there. I may have to give the mother tongue of my child not as Tamil. May be this is what god wants to happen now perhaps. Later things will improve I am sure.

Maybe TN brahmins should be given "cultural refugee" status by UN Human rights commission. This will enable more of us to settle overseas and thus escape from persecution.

We have all the reasons to be considered as a refugee , only thing is this issue has not been
petitioned to the UN Human Rights Commission.
 
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one of the ways

One of the ways to avoid the potential loss of quality would be that the existing priests should not impart trainings unless their strict standards aimed at ensuring quality are met with.

But the govt may ask them to leave the job. So our community must be willing to support them then atleast for a couple of years to begin with and get them settled in new private temples in the long run if needed.

Also if the govt may ask the priests to leave the job, then that will bring back the question of whether a secular govt has any jurisdictions over the temples and way of worship in a particular religion and thus back to litigations and the community must be willing to support that too.

Just a fyi...
I read in articles in magazines that in christianity in TN, the priests from OBC castes discriminate against priests from adi dravida castes. Among muslims in TN too there are stratifications as far as I know. These things are happening in the religions where their books mention nothing about the standards to qualify someone as a priest.
 
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SIR - yes- one of the advantages of having orthdox bramins as priests is that having devoted their entire life to orthodoxy, they impart training to youngsters and mould them into orthodoxy. thus they pass their knowledge to next generations and thereby ensure that traditional standards are maintained. this cannot be expected of the 'new' 'priests' as they themselves are ''learners', and so what knowledge can they pass to others???
 
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Dear Suresh:

I caught the tail end of SUN TV news, ... about how many have applied to become priests in temples. It said about 632 from Adi Dravida, and big number from OBC, giving a total of 1754 (I think). You may have the correct numbers.

Now what?
 
From the original post:

Tamil nadu government stating people of all caste can becoming priest
of Hindu temple ,the application form for course & training are
available here & also saying those who attend the training will get
free space ,food, money during there training classes .



With that kind of an offer, free food, free space for months, maybe even a year or two, why wouldn't there be a rush of people applying? On a more serious note, it does mean that temple priests become representative of the people they are catering to. In itself, that is fine, as every community wants to have its own representatives. But Brahmanas should redouble their efforts to support their own priests and their own community, just like other communities are taking care of their own.
 
sir - the yellow shawlist does not have any respect for constitution. he has burnt the constitution many times and has been jailed for that. the yellow shawlist has taken part in many violent agitations, breaking law and has been convicted and jailed for that also. the yellow shawlist recently abused and threatened judges and thereby proved that he does not have any respect for judiciary also. the yellow shawlist has also betrayed his lack of knowledge about hinduism (for e.g. he said BHAGAVAD GITA instigates war!) on many occassions

the yellow shawlist is an ignorant, arrogant person and now being in power at all levels - local, state & central,the fellow has become more barbaric & arrogant than ever before. this move of the yellow shawlist to convert orthodox temples in to emplyment exchanges where his party cronies would propagate 'rational' policies(?) will demote traditional places of worship into a wing of Tasmac, where lungi clad DMK 'rationalists'(!) with cigars in their mouth and whiskey bottle in their hands will take full control of temples on the pretext that they are also 'hindus'. in the next few years, all idols of gods will be removed and substituted with photos of kanimozhis, durgas, kaveris, azhagiris, mallikas, and marans!

there is nothing novel in this move of the yellow shawlist as in many temples not following agamas, many non bramins are already priests. misusing tax payers money to enroll all & sundry as priests by dangling freebies in front of these hapless unemployed betrays the desparation of the yellow shawlist.

orthodx priesthood will become a post as cheap as chiefminister of t.nadu. this is exactly what the yellow shawlist wants. of course, the media has shut its total system without any protest because the media is 'secular' and so 'rationalists' should not be opposed. how are the courts allowing this? this is blatant violation of 'secular' constitution, court verdicts and rule of law.

but then GOD IS GREAT. let us pray, hope and believe that god will not allow the yellow shawlist to play his 'rational' games in orthodox temples.
 
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Could someone tell me how the TN Govt., proclaiming itself as secular and athiest, can administer the affairs of the Hindu temples. What is their stand on this issue? I wonder if anyone has filed any petition in a court against this.
 
Could someone tell me how the TN Govt., proclaiming itself as secular and athiest, can administer the affairs of the Hindu temples. What is their stand on this issue? I wonder if anyone has filed any petition in a court against this.

You can ask the same q of the Indian govt., which also proclaims to be secular and yet plunder our temples in the name of secularism. This isn't peculiar to TN, the Indian Constitution permits govt. to control majority institutions. Congress started this, and dmk and other thugs are following it. It's happening throughout India, not merely in TN. We have to thank Gandhi and Nehru for this.:peace:
 
Lemme guess

Dear Suresh:

I caught the tail end of SUN TV news, ... about how many have applied to become priests in temples. It said about 632 from Adi Dravida, and big number from OBC, giving a total of 1754 (I think). You may have the correct numbers.

Now what?

Read in Viduthalai that MK has expressed "happiness" that so many applications have come from OBCs / SCs / STs. What an honourable atheist he is ?

Now what ? hmmm.....let me guess

a) Prasadams - Chicken Biriyani & Mutton Biriyani

b) Temples will blare "godly film music". For eg : In Thiruvannamalai temple - "Adhan da idhan da 'Arunachalam' naan dhan da".

b1) Public can sing bhajan songs pleading their requests / needs to God like - "Ondra, Renda aasaigal yellam sollave or naal poduma.....".

b2) If God doesn't heed the request, worshippers can sing - "Tharuviya, Tharamaatiya, Tharalenna un pechu ka ka ka"

c) Two Hundis in each temple - one for believers & other for atheist with a photo of EVR

d) New entries in latcharchanai - "Om karunanidhiyaya namaha, Om periyararai namah, Ommmmmmmm Veeeramaniyayai namah"

e) All priests to wear lungis & black shirt - as sponsored by DK

f) Priests were hitherto respectfully or disrespectfully called "Aiyyera"...Instead it will be "yov May*****"

Ssssss aappppa ippave kanna kattudhey !!!!!!
 
This is very funny! Unfortunately all this may also eventually become true. Very funny and very sad too.

Read in Viduthalai that MK has expressed "happiness" that so many applications have come from OBCs / SCs / STs. What an honourable atheist he is ?

Now what ? hmmm.....let me guess

a) Prasadams - Chicken Biriyani & Mutton Biriyani

b) Temples will blare "godly film music". For eg : In Thiruvannamalai temple - "Adhan da idhan da 'Arunachalam' naan dhan da".

b1) Public can sing bhajan songs pleading their requests / needs to God like - "Ondra, Renda aasaigal yellam sollave or naal poduma.....".

b2) If God doesn't heed the request, worshippers can sing - "Tharuviya, Tharamaatiya, Tharalenna un pechu ka ka ka"

c) Two Hundis in each temple - one for believers & other for atheist with a photo of EVR

d) New entries in latcharchanai - "Om karunanidhiyaya namaha, Om periyararai namah, Ommmmmmmm Veeeramaniyayai namah"

e) All priests to wear lungis & black shirt - as sponsored by DK

f) Priests were hitherto respectfully or disrespectfully called "Aiyyera"...Instead it will be "yov May*****"

Ssssss aappppa ippave kanna kattudhey !!!!!!
 
Any Legal Experts with Some Answers?

India is not a secular country. When will government control of Hinduism's holiest shrines and religion be finally challenged in the courts? What does it take to do this?
 
Folks,

I do not understand a couple of points about this issue.

I thought that the training required to be a priest in a 'major' temple is about 30 years long (I may be mistaken). This standard may be somewhat reduced for the small, around the street temples. Can someone with knowledge explain?

I also thought that the major temples have 'Parambarai' traditions about the priests and I thought that the SC has upheld this tradition fairly recently. So, this may be just a tempest in the tea pot. May someone explain?

Pranams,
KRS
 
A public interest litigation, perhaps?

Do we have lawyers amidst us? Please come forward to answer our queries.



India is not a secular country. When will government control of Hinduism's holiest shrines and religion be finally challenged in the courts? What does it take to do this?
 
sir - the yellow shawlist is getting confused by mixing hinduism with other relgions and also by mixing orthodox temples with non orthodox temples. in orthodox temples, only priestly bramins can perform pujas. other bramins,however orthodox or traditional or reverred they may be, inside temples, they do not have any priestly rights. non bramins do not even have right to sport sacred thread or perform samaashreyam, so i cannot understand how the yellow shawlist considers non bramins qualified for post of priests in orthodox temples, when even bramins with sacred thread and samaashreyam are not even allowed to enter sanctumsanctorum of orthodox temples, leave not becoming priest.

the primary issues for an govt. to address in today's t.nadu are law and order, economy, health, education & civic infrastructure, power etc., these are all areas where only govts. can do justice to people in a poor country. instead of concentrating on these, the yellow shawlist is dabbling in private religious affairs of individuals, in an obvious attempt to divert people.


the yellow shawlist is trying to convert this in to a bramin vs non bramin problem. but more than that this a question about whether a govt in a secular democratic country has right to alter traditional rituals in places of worship at its own whims and fancies. after all temples are private domains, where govts. in secular republics cannot have any role at all. can private life of an individual be regulated by govt. in a modern democracy? if yes then this will only lead to primitive barbarism.
 
India is not a secular country. When will government control of Hinduism's holiest shrines and religion be finally challenged in the courts? What does it take to do this?

Dear Srimathi Shanti Brahm Ji,

This has been mulled about. But the 'HRCE' authority to control the Hindu temple revenues were voluntarily given to the British by non other than the different factions of Hindus who could not agree on proper 'hundi' sharing. It continued after the independence on the agreement again of the major Hindu communities.

I suppose what it will take is for ALL the Hindu communities to agree how they manage the affairs of different temples. Then we can get the Govt. out of God's business.

As Chintana Ji says above, lawyers amongst us should clarify.

Pranams,
KRS
 
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