'Shanghaied'

Article in Business Standard

Those impressed with the doubling of India’s engineering graduates over the last four to five years would do well to cast an eye on what is happening in neighbouring China. While the growth is similar to India’s when it comes to the number of graduates, the absolute numbers are quite mind-boggling, as a recent study published by the US National Academy of Science shows. India’s graduates with four-year degrees in engineering, computer science and information technology rose from 82,000 in 2000-01 to 170,000 in 2004-05 while those for China rose from 220,000 to 517,000—the US’ figure rose from 114,000 to 134,000 in the same period. In the case of higher degrees, the comparisons get worse. India’s annual crop of engineering and technology master’s degree holders rose from 15,000 to 20,000 in the same period that China’s rose from 20,000 to 65,000. Things even out if you include the Master of Computer Application degrees in India, which rose from 9,000 to 39,000, but an MCA is not the same thing as a master’s in science. In the case of engineering and technology PhDs, there is no room for such manoeuvring—India’s annual PhD output is stagnant at a few hundred while that for China rose from 5,000 in 2000-01 to 9,500 in 2004-05 (the US’ fell from 7,000 in 1995-96 to 6,000 in 2000-01, then recovered to 8,000 in 2004-05). Compressed training courses of the sort that India’s IT/ITeS industry is resorting to can alleviate the short-term problem of the number of hands that can be thrown at a problem, but no innovative work can be expected without a well-educated workforce. In other words, China can rapidly muscle into India’s new-found engineering advantage if there is no corrective action taken here.

None of this though should come as a surprise. Some months ago, the Knowledge Commission recommended that India increase the number of universities from the current 350 to around 1,500 by 2015. The Commission pointed out that China had authorised the creation of 1,250 new universities in the last three years alone. The Commission has a point since it is critical that India increase the proportion of those in the 18-24 age group who go into higher education, from the current 7 per cent to 15 (the current Asian average); much more investment in higher education is the answer, and the Knowledge Commission argues that the budget for this should go from the current 0.7 per cent of GDP to 2 per cent.

More important, as the Commission also recognised, is that none of this will happen as long as India carries on with its current governance structure, where it requires an Act of Parliament to set up a university and the University Grants Commission then micro-manages every aspect of that university from the fees to the curriculum and from admission policy to selection of staff. It is not surprising that just three or four Indian universities figure in the rankings of the world’s top 500 universities, compared to 15-16 for China—these are rankings based on objective criteria like the number of Nobel laureates on the science and economics faculties/alumni, the number of articles published by faculty members in refereed journals, and their quality as reflected in the expanded Science Citation Index and Social Science Citation Index. The World Bank’s Knowledge Economy Index (KEI) also points to an Indian decline versus a Chinese surge. The question is when the country will wake up to the urgent need for corrective action, and then take that action. Business as usual is simply not an option.

Problem of quantity vs quality

As we all know, in India there is no problem of quantity, but really of quality. Given that India is the number one producer of movies by far, how many would stand up to the expectations of a global audience. It is the same mind-numbing, twins separated, rich girl marries poor boy, rich landlord oppresses poor peasants, and on and on and on, types of inane stories with crappy editing and a soundtrack which sounds the same as if it was dubbed in the same studio. Same goes for sports, in spite of a billion plus population, not even one plus gold medal in any recent Olympic event. Only the IITs and IIMs were at least recognized at the world level, but now those may also sink without a trace once a horde of rich, lazy, "backward" candidates with reduced qualifications join in.
No society can progress if the intellectual class is not respected, and if any considerations other than excellence are allowed to monkey with the abilities of people. If there were no reservations, and Toda tribes happened to be the most brilliant, I would personally be happy, and would strive to match them, not pull them down. By putting my own self-interest above the need to recognize excellence wherever it is, is the path to destruction. Of course, many in India have the opposite view, and we are all seeing the results of these policies. I read that Rwanda now has a higher literacy rate than India. Will Africa also surpass India?

India, after the British left, had a chance to regain the glory of a few hundred years ago, when it accounted for almost 25% of world GDP and 16% of trade. Here is a quote from the Economic times:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1783556.cms?epaper

THE economic historian Angus Maddison has estimated that in 1700 AD, towards the end of the Mughal Empire, India's GDP was not only higher than that of China, but that of western Europe combined. In terms of productivity and technology, however, it had already begun to fall behind Europe. Roughly at par in 1000 AD, per capita GDP in India and China had fallen to roughly half the average European level by 1700. It was this growing gap between Europe and the rest of the world that fuelled European expansion to other parts of the globe.


One should note that in 1000 AD the Mughals made their entrance into India, and for the last 1000 years under foreign rule, India and China went from the top to the bottom of the world due to Mongol/Islamic invasions and British occupation. Of course, the anti-Hindus who keep harping about how the "5000 years of Varnashrama" had destroyed India etc etc conveniently forget that in 1000 AD, Vedic religion (called Hinduism by others) was at its peak. Now these same dudes are going to ensure that India stays at the bottom, by driving away most of the intellectual class based on Evangelical propaganda about "5000 years of oppression", and the remaining ones spending all their time apologizing for god knows what purpose. What a sad turn of events.

Quantity also a problem

Mrifan,

Thanks for taking this up.

From the article, don't you feel that along with the age old problem of quality, we now DO have a problem of quantity also.

China is quietly, steadily sneaking up on us. The only thing that is perhaps holding them back a bit is inability to speak English.

Once they catch up on that front too, China won't beat us but swamp us.

Perhaps this is why we are getting into 'Reservations' et all. I think it is really a problem of supply.

If you take a retail scenario, there is a place for every one - kirana shops, semi-departmental stores, malls, super malls, hyper malls etc... which are typified by differentiations in quality & price point. Which is natural.

Unfortunately in India, this is true even of the educational sector. That is why the clamour for reservations. Not even for a minute am i suggesting that IITs & IIMs can be created every nook and corner, but i am sure the "gulf" in the quality of education between say an IIT vs a Private Engineering College, an Urban Private Engineering College vs a Rural Engineering College has to be systematically narrowed down.

I will say the same thing for Primary, Secondary & Higher Secondary education as well.

I am sure you would read the article in full, don't you see a point in how the Universities are managed in India ? First of all they have to be established by an Act of Parliament, then Govt merrily indulges in micro-management etc..

Given the speed at which decisions are taken and given the 'priorities' of the political parties, i am afraid, we are converting a supply problem into a 'class war'

India is sitting on it's laurels (?) while 'Communist' China is taking ground level actions.

I am reminded of the immortal words of Jeff Immelt made in Delhi - "India promises, China delivers"

We are in a deep slumber, our days of IT leadership are numbered.

sir - whatever china has 'achieved' is because of foreign investments, which is highly volatile. i do not think the chinese model is good for india. moreover a totalitarian regime cannot be compared to a democracy. that apart, when you consider china's area (2nd biggest in world) their population (no.1 in the world) and their resources, what they have 'achieved' is relatively insignificant. a country like india should develop herself mainly on basis of indigenous & local investments rather than on foreign capital like china. the chinese model is perhaps more suited for small countries like singapore, hongkong, luxumborg etc.,

Liberalize the education sector

I think the problem is not that there are not enough IITs and IIMs, but that the government bureaucracy maintains a tight control over the education sector. By sheltering students, it only leads to a defeatist self-fulfilling prophecy. This can also be witnessed in the US for example, where the state governments in conjunction with the teachers unions exert a lot of control over public schools. Most of the social engineering aspects were introduced in the 1960's and 70's. The downstream effect has been a gradual degradation of quality of the college aspirants in the US. People in the US know what I am talking about. While the quality of American students has declined, in a way, that opened the door for many skilled immigrants to come in, and in practically any high-tech company in the US today, a significant portion of the workforce are immigrants.
However, the universities in the US, still base their faculty admission policies on pure excellence, and a rigorous tenure system, which accounts for the leading position these institutions occupy in the world.

The IITs and IIMs are extremely strict in their admission policies. While the Dravida KKK leaders keep carping on about the number of Brahmana faculty in IITs etc, they never stop to think why the IITs are considered to be the best engineering institution in India. Their graduates can hold their own among the best in the world, as can be seen in the US. There is at least some vision in the teachers, who do dedicate themselves to teaching students the fundamentals of the subject carefully. The pay that a IIT professor gets is about the same as that in Anna University, they are located in the same city, have a similar campus size and labs etc. So why is one ranked so much higher than the other? Just out of spite and caste hatred, the KKK leaders are going to pull down the institute to the same level as everything else.


In any issue where the Govt has meddled, and if there is a ministry for that sector, it has languished. Thankfully, at least there was no ministry of IT, or that one also would have been a hopelessly uncompetitive and sick sector like anything else. I feel the key to beating China, or even the Western nations in quality and innovation for that matter are to liberalize the education sector, and develop a large domestic market for high quality goods and services. Brahmanas should lobby hard for this, but it will take some time for this to pass. The deep sense of insecurity in people has to be satiated first. Unless there is an actual collapse or regression in the growth of the sunrise sectors, the politicians may be paranoid about alienating voters who want benefits without having to work for it. After all, that is how the Indian population votes. A "free" color TV, 2Rs/kg or "free" rice, "free" power, "free" dhotis, these are what win elections. As long as getting something for nothing is viewed as normal, India will have a very long and hard task regaining its former glory. In China, the elitists ensured that they made the rules, since they believed that such people would not have the wisdom to take the country forward. Brahmans are an unfortunate casualty of this phenomenon, since the majority can always vote themselves the fruit of a minority's labor.

I think each one of us must try to push the public opinion to liberalize the education sector. Not only will Brahmanas benefit, but all Indians will benefit. Vain hope perhaps?

I agree with you

Mrifan sir,

I completely agree with you.

Much of what has been achieved in India is NOT because of the system but DESPITE the system. In this regard, your point about liberalising the Education Sector is very very valid.

At the cost of boring you, i will like to again emphasise on the supply side problem. I strongly believe that IITs / IIMs are best left untouched as 'Islands of Excellence' reserved for the very best cutting across all social/eco strata.

I feel that KKKs have a point but their articulation of their case is unethical.

Take the case of an average student who doesn't get thru IIT entrance exam. For a minute let us assume he is not having an economic problem & that he belongs to an OBC category. KKKs are demanding that this guy should be given a free ride into the IIT. Imagine a situation where there are enough Engineering Colleges which are only marginally worse off in quality vis-a-vis IIT. Then i feel there is no need for Reservation policy !!!!!

In this regard, i would like to state what Thomas Friedman (Author of The World is Flat) had to say about IITs (in my words) - "IITs are like never drying oil wells & India can well afford to sink in another 1000 of them"

Even if not IITs, i feel there is a case for increasing the supply side to a level where students of different abilities are able to find alternatives without having to dilute the quality of the very best.

For all of this to happen, as you rightly said, the sector has to be liberalized & de-commercialised.

I agree, it's a vain hope especially with Arjun Singh at the helm of affairs.

Questions about Karnataka

I have some questions about colleges in Karnataka. It was definitely very helpful for TN Brahmana students who were denied education in the 90's to go to Karnataka to get a college education, because of the numerous self-financing colleges which opened there initially. I had also heard that they actually follow the Supreme Court directives in ensuring that the quotas do not cross the 50% limit, and that people applying for Govt jobs under the OBC quota have to produce an income certificate stating they do not belong to the affluent layer.

Is this true? If so, it would seem to be motivated not by anti-Brahmanism, but at least some token effort is being made to help poor people from other castes. I had also heard that AP follows the same procedure. Can this be confirmed by someone here? I am sure this can be useful to TN Brahmanas.

There is a website called reality check.wordpress.com,which has been reporting on this issue for quite some time.

What you say seems to be true.In karnataka,the ceiling of 50% seems to be maintained and the creamy layer is excluded from the benefits of reservation.The same situation prevails in kerala as well.

In Andhra the situation is different.Reddys,Kammas and other communities are able to compete on an equal footiing with others and are getting admitted in large numbers in iits.There are a large number of candidates from andhra and bihar getting through JEEs.This is all the more remarkable in the case of bihar,where coaching facilities are minimal.

Historians point out,when AP was carved from the Madras presidency,andhra did not opt for reservation for backward classes.The kammas,reddys and kapus who had enjoyed reservation as non-brahmanas in the erstwhile madras presidency thought it fit to forgo reservation in the newly formed andhra state.That way,the backward in telengana would not have cut into the share of jobs/seats available in open quota.Also the non-brahman elite had the confidence to compete with telugu brahmanas.Which they did not have in the composite madras presidency.

Now,because of this culture within the state and coaching institutes and HARD WORK,they are able to compete and pass JEE in large numbers.

The situation in TN is unique because of the "ethnic"/linguistic element.

Also i wonder,how many brahmanas are as well endowed/confident as you(mrifan sir).There is no doubt that we have to go for quality in whatever we do.

Focus

murali said:

There is a website called reality check.wordpress.com,which has been reporting on this issue for quite some time.

Click to expand...

Yes, it is an excellent blog. It is not by a Brahmana, but I think by a Kerala Nair (also affected by quotas in Kerala). It shows a clarity of purpose, single-minded focus on data, and a high level of professionalism. Many news media in fact visit that blog, because of its excellent analysis. Even though there are only a couple of posts a week, the quality of those posts beat any of those in viduthalai or other fascist sites anyday.

murali said:

Historians point out,when AP was carved from the Madras presidency,andhra did not opt for reservation for backward classes.The kammas,reddys and kapus who had enjoyed reservation as non-brahmanas in the erstwhile madras presidency thought it fit to forgo reservation in the newly formed andhra state.That way,the backward in telengana would not have cut into the share of jobs/seats available in open quota.Also the non-brahman elite had the confidence to compete with telugu brahmanas.Which they did not have in the composite madras presidency.

Now,because of this culture within the state and coaching institutes and HARD WORK,they are able to compete and pass JEE in large numbers.

The situation in TN is unique because of the "ethnic"/linguistic element.

Also i wonder,how many brahmanas are as well endowed/confident as you(mrifan sir).There is no doubt that we have to go for quality in whatever we do.

Click to expand...

I was friends with a few Nairs and Reddys in IIT when I was studying there, and they were as good as any of the Brahmanas, TN or otherwise. Intelligence of course is not the monopoly of any caste, and I do not think Brahmanas subscribe to that viewpoint. What does make me and others like realitycheck angry is that bogus claims of "oppression" and "backwardness" are used to obtain shortcuts and discriminate against talented people of a certain background in TN.

No nation can afford, in this day and age, to sacrifice quality, regardless of the background of the person. For example, I doubt IT companies even bother about the caste of an applicant. Given the global competition, such companies which do discriminate, will suffer in the marketplace. Unless the education sector is liberalized from government control, and quality and excellence are put foremost, India will not be able to compete in the increasingly globalized world. China, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and others have all pulled ahead even though they had the same GDP as India in 1950's.