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Indian Charecteristics

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KRS

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I received it in mail. Very thought provoking.

Regards,
KRS

ESSAY: Why Indians don’t give back to society
FROM THE MINT
BY AAKAR PATEL

SHARED BY AARDEE

Some characteristics unite Indians. The most visible is our opportunism.

Why don’t we worship Brahma? We know he’s part of the Hindu trinity as the creator, but we worship Vishnu, manager of the cosmos, and Shiva, its eventual destroyer. The answer lies not in religion, but in culture. But in what way does our religion shape our culture?

Max Weber explained the success of capitalism in the US, Germany and Britain as coming from their populations’ Protestant faith. This ethic, or culture, was missing from the Catholic populations of South America, Italy and Spain. Protestants, Weber said, extended Christianity’s message of doing good deeds, to doing work well. Industry and enterprise had an ultimate motive: public good. That explains the philanthropists of the US, from John D. Rockefeller to Andrew Carnegie to Bill Gates.

What explains the behaviour of Indians? What explains the anarchy of our cities? To find out, we must ask how our behaviour is different.

Some characteristics unite Indians. The most visible is our opportunism. One good way to judge a society is to see it in motion. On the road, we observe the opportunism in the behaviour of the Indian driver. Where traffic halts on one side of the road in India, motorists will encroach the oncoming side because there is space available there. If that leads to both sides being blocked, that is fine, as long as we maintain our advantage over people behind us or next to us. This is because the other man cannot be trusted to stay in his place.

The Indian’s instinct is to jump the traffic light if he is convinced that the signal is not policed. If he gets flagged down by the police, his instinct is to bolt. In an accident, his instinct is to flee. Fatal motoring cases in India are a grim record of how the driver ran over people and drove away.

We show the pattern of what is called a Hobbesian society: one in which there is low trust between people. This instinct of me-versus-the-world leads to irrational behaviour, demonstrated when Indians board flights. We form a mob at the entrance, and as the flight is announced, scramble for the plane even though all tickets are numbered. Airlines modify their boarding announcements for Indians taking international flights.

Our opportunism necessarily means that we do not understand collective good. Indians will litter if they are not policed. Someone else will always pick up the rubbish we throw. Thailand’s toilets are used by as many people as India’s toilets are, but they are likely to be not just clean but spotless. This is because that’s how the users leave them, not the cleaners.

The Indian’s reluctance to embrace collective good hurts his state. A study of income-tax compliance between 1965 and 1993 in India (Elsevier Science/Das-Gupta, Lahiri and Mookherjee) concluded that “declining assessment intensity had a significant negative effect” on compliance, while “traditional enforcement tools (searches, penalties and prosecution activity) had only a limited effect” on Indians. The authors puzzled over the fact that “India’s income tax performance (was) below the average of countries with similar GDP per capita”.

We do not think stealing from the state is a bad thing, and our ambiguity extends to corruption, which also we do not view in absolute terms. Political parties in India understand this and corruption is not an issue in Indian politics. Politicians who are demonstrably corrupt, recorded on camera taking a bribe or saying appalling things, or convicted by a court, can hold legitimate hope of a comeback—unthinkable in the West.

The opportunist is necessarily good at adapting, and that explains the success of Indians abroad. We can follow someone else’s rules well, even if we can’t enforce them at home ourselves. The Indian in the US is peerless at the Spelling Bee because the formula of committing things to memory, which in India passes for knowledge, comes naturally to him. But this talent for adapting and memorizing is not the same as a talent for creation.

The question is: Why are we opportunists?

In his great work Crowds and Power, Elias Canetti observed that the rewards religions promised their faithful were all far off, in the afterlife. This is because a short goal would demand demonstration from god and create sceptics instead of believers. There is an exception to this in Hinduism. Hinduism is not about the other world. There is no afterlife in Hinduism and rebirth is always on earth. The goal is to be released entirely and our death rites and beliefs—funeral in Kashi—seek freedom from rebirth. Christianity and Islam are about how to enter heaven; Hinduism is about how not to return to earth, because it’s a rotten place. Naipaul opens his finest novel with the words “The world is what it is”, and Wittgenstein ( “The world is all that is the case”) opens his Tractatus similarly.

Hinduism recognizes that the world is irredeemable: It is what it is. Perhaps this is where the Hindu gets his world view—which is zero-sum—from. We might say that he takes the pessimistic view of society and of his fellow man. But why?

The Hindu devotee’s relationship with god is transactional: I give you this, you give me that. God must be petitioned and placated to swing the universe’s blessings towards you. God gives you something not through the miracle, and this is what makes Hinduism different, but by swinging that something away from someone else. This is the primary lesson of the Vedic fire sacrifice. There is no benefit to one without loss to another. Religion is about bending god’s influence towards you through pleas, and appeasement, through offerings.

Society has no role in your advancement and there is no reason to give back to it (in any way, including leaving the toilets clean behind you) because it hasn’t given you anything in the first place. That is why Indian industrialists are not philanthropists. Rockefeller always gave a tenth of his earnings to the Church, and then donated hundreds of millions, fighting hookworm and educating black women. Bill Gates gave $25 billion (around Rs1.2 trillion), and his cause is fighting malaria, which does not even affect Americans. Warren Buffett gave away $30 billion, almost his entire fortune. Andrew Carnegie built 2,500 libraries. Dhirubhai Ambani International School has annual fees starting at Rs47,500 (with a Rs24,000 admission fee) and Mukesh Ambani’s daughter was made head girl.
An interesting thing to know is this: Has our culture shaped our faith or has our faith shaped our culture? I cannot say. To return to the question we started with: Why is Brahma not worshipped? The answer is obvious: He has nothing to offer us. What he could do for us, create the universe, he already has. There is no gain in petitioning him now.
 
the ambanis are the worst examples of the success of unfettered consumption and opulence.

much as they give jobs to thousands of folks, and key players in the country's development, i only wish, they had followed the examples of our IT execs like premji, narayanamurthy et al, in setting examples of modesty, decency and charity.

just a tad sad :(
 
Let us not talk about bad examples.

In any society, there is a mixure of selfish and selfless (or less selfish) persons.

In India, the laws are not people friendly. They are outdated and are open to interpretation by anyone as he/she likes. We are unable to challenge the supremacy of the people in power - from a head constable to a supreme court full bench, from a ward councillor to a Union Cabinet minister, from a peon to a Chief Secretary, from a petty trader to a great industrialist. For a honest person, the law really doesn't help and come to his rescue.

Bureaucracy is mired in unnecessary formalities and paper work and this is highly disliked by most of the citizens.

Yet, all things said and done, philanthropy still thrives in many parts of the country, without any publicity. Only those charities which depend on foreign funds indulge in publicity stunts.

One more thing we have to see here. The level of literacy, the per capita income on purchasing power parity level etc. are very poor in India.

You blame the system, I agree. But, not the individuals please.

India is the country where the roots of Dharma are still strong but may not be visible overground.

I shall write more on this.
 
People have only a vague idea of what religion says... it is probably the change in recent times, ushered in by a change in the societal framework.

To say that, religion is a cause for a self-centric behaviour is far-fetched.

People of Bharath are known to live by Dharma. It applies to the self as well as to the society. Somewhere, along the way, the focus had shifted...

An account of Megasthenes, during the Maurya rule, is an interesting read - an insight into the way we lived. Ok, for those who rush to paint this nostalgic, I agree with them.

The 'anarchy' that is seen is a sign of struggle - a struggle between conflicting ideals, sometimes in the same individual and in others, between them.

To return to the question we started with: Why is Brahma not worshipped?
Every brahmin is said to be an abode of Brahma...

I agree that the state of affairs now is highlighted aptly by this:

Society has no role in your advancement and there is no reason to give back to it (in any way, including leaving the toilets clean behind you) because it hasn’t given you anything in the first place.
But I do not agree that culture /religion has anything to do with it...

These words of Shri pannvalan sum up the cause quite nicely:

For a honest person, the law really doesn't help and come to his rescue.
 
To return to the question we started with: Why is Brahma not worshipped?
Every brahmin is said to be an abode of Brahma...

ah, i suppose that is the reason why some brahmins wish to be worshipped as god themselves... (removed icon - just in case it gets misunderstood)....

let me relate an incident:

a doctor in bihar was posted at a phc in a village.

the phc (primary health centre) was tiny, but it had a seperate examination room that doubled as a treatment room.

this doctor on the pretext of examining lady patients had molested, and even defiled many of them. the women were from the tribal areas, they did not dare lodge a police compaint for fear of being ostracized from their own communities.

this doc wud visit the town on sundays and other places during holidays....in drunken stupor, he once recounted his tales of experiences with various women, he also proclaimed the greatness of brahminhood, and at one point he said 'those people worship brahmins...mera kuch bhi nahi bigad sakte (they cannot spoil anything for me)'....

sapthajihva's post brought that incident to mind...

no offence meant to anyone otherwise.

regards.
 
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What a load of crap from this guy. Honestly I felt this guy is speaking the truth till the point when he associates all problems with Hinduism and Vedic sacrifices and all. This guy has got it all wrong when it comes to Hinduism. I post my comments under his comments which I feel are wrong.

FROM THE MINT
BY AAKAR PATEL

SHARED BY AARDEE

Some characteristics unite Indians. The most visible is our opportunism.

Why don’t we worship Brahma? We know he’s part of the Hindu trinity as the creator, but we worship Vishnu, manager of the cosmos, and Shiva, its eventual destroyer. The answer lies not in religion, but in culture. But in what way does our religion shape our culture?

Max Weber explained the success of capitalism in the US, Germany and Britain as coming from their populations’ Protestant faith. This ethic, or culture, was missing from the Catholic populations of South America, Italy and Spain. Protestants, Weber said, extended Christianity’s message of doing good deeds, to doing work well. Industry and enterprise had an ultimate motive: public good. That explains the philanthropists of the US, from John D. Rockefeller to Andrew Carnegie to Bill Gates.

What explains the behaviour of Indians? What explains the anarchy of our cities? To find out, we must ask how our behaviour is different.

Some characteristics unite Indians. The most visible is our opportunism. One good way to judge a society is to see it in motion. On the road, we observe the opportunism in the behaviour of the Indian driver. Where traffic halts on one side of the road in India, motorists will encroach the oncoming side because there is space available there. If that leads to both sides being blocked, that is fine, as long as we maintain our advantage over people behind us or next to us. This is because the other man cannot be trusted to stay in his place.

The Indian’s instinct is to jump the traffic light if he is convinced that the signal is not policed. If he gets flagged down by the police, his instinct is to bolt. In an accident, his instinct is to flee. Fatal motoring cases in India are a grim record of how the driver ran over people and drove away.

We show the pattern of what is called a Hobbesian society: one in which there is low trust between people. This instinct of me-versus-the-world leads to irrational behaviour, demonstrated when Indians board flights. We form a mob at the entrance, and as the flight is announced, scramble for the plane even though all tickets are numbered. Airlines modify their boarding announcements for Indians taking international flights.

Our opportunism necessarily means that we do not understand collective good. Indians will litter if they are not policed. Someone else will always pick up the rubbish we throw. Thailand’s toilets are used by as many people as India’s toilets are, but they are likely to be not just clean but spotless. This is because that’s how the users leave them, not the cleaners.

The Indian’s reluctance to embrace collective good hurts his state. A study of income-tax compliance between 1965 and 1993 in India (Elsevier Science/Das-Gupta, Lahiri and Mookherjee) concluded that “declining assessment intensity had a significant negative effect” on compliance, while “traditional enforcement tools (searches, penalties and prosecution activity) had only a limited effect” on Indians. The authors puzzled over the fact that “India’s income tax performance (was) below the average of countries with similar GDP per capita”.

We do not think stealing from the state is a bad thing, and our ambiguity extends to corruption, which also we do not view in absolute terms. Political parties in India understand this and corruption is not an issue in Indian politics. Politicians who are demonstrably corrupt, recorded on camera taking a bribe or saying appalling things, or convicted by a court, can hold legitimate hope of a comeback—unthinkable in the West.

The opportunist is necessarily good at adapting, and that explains the success of Indians abroad. We can follow someone else’s rules well, even if we can’t enforce them at home ourselves. The Indian in the US is peerless at the Spelling Bee because the formula of committing things to memory, which in India passes for knowledge, comes naturally to him. But this talent for adapting and memorizing is not the same as a talent for creation.

The question is: Why are we opportunists?

In his great work Crowds and Power, Elias Canetti observed that the rewards religions promised their faithful were all far off, in the afterlife. This is because a short goal would demand demonstration from god and create sceptics instead of believers. There is an exception to this in Hinduism. Hinduism is not about the other world. There is no afterlife in Hinduism and rebirth is always on earth. The goal is to be released entirely and our death rites and beliefs—funeral in Kashi—seek freedom from rebirth. Christianity and Islam are about how to enter heaven; Hinduism is about how not to return to earth, because it’s a rotten place. Naipaul opens his finest novel with the words “The world is what it is”, and Wittgenstein ( “The world is all that is the case”) opens his Tractatus similarly.

This guy knows nothing about the Law of Karma, otherwise he would not speak like that. Someone should tell him that birth and re-birth depends on the karma you accumulate. While other religions give a soul just one lifetime to go to heaven or hell, Hinduism gives a soul many chances to redeem one's soul. Where does HInduism say the earth is a rotten place? It calls the earth a karma bhoomi, a place where you set right your karmas.

Hinduism recognizes that the world is irredeemable: It is what it is. Perhaps this is where the Hindu gets his world view—which is zero-sum—from. We might say that he takes the pessimistic view of society and of his fellow man. But why?

More crap. It is up to the human being concerned to set right the world. Now if he jumps the queue or makes a place unclean is it because he takes a pessimistic view as advocated by Hinduism? Where is the connection? I would say his view of Indians is pessimistic.

The Hindu devotee’s relationship with god is transactional: I give you this, you give me that. God must be petitioned and placated to swing the universe’s blessings towards you. God gives you something not through the miracle, and this is what makes Hinduism different, but by swinging that something away from someone else. This is the primary lesson of the Vedic fire sacrifice. There is no benefit to one without loss to another. Religion is about bending god’s influence towards you through pleas, and appeasement, through offerings.

What about Hundis in temples? Thousands of people just put in money into these with no second thoughts. What about so many people doing poojas in their homes for no specific purpose? Is this transactional? In fact a Hindu saying, oh god, please grant my prayer, I will offer this is a sign of humility and thanks giving. In most of the cases, the person is undergoing a problem and he requests god to solve it and will offer something as a thanks giving. What is wrong in that? What is transactional in that? And is he implying that god grabs something from one to give another? If a Christian slays a turkey during Thanksgiving what is that or a Muslim sacrifices a goat during Eid what is that? Isn't that a offering?

Society has no role in your advancement and there is no reason to give back to it (in any way, including leaving the toilets clean behind you) because it hasn’t given you anything in the first place. That is why Indian industrialists are not philanthropists. Rockefeller always gave a tenth of his earnings to the Church, and then donated hundreds of millions, fighting hookworm and educating black women. Bill Gates gave $25 billion (around Rs1.2 trillion), and his cause is fighting malaria, which does not even affect Americans. Warren Buffett gave away $30 billion, almost his entire fortune. Andrew Carnegie built 2,500 libraries. Dhirubhai Ambani International School has annual fees starting at Rs47,500 (with a Rs24,000 admission fee) and Mukesh Ambani’s daughter was made head girl.

This guy is generalizing too much. There are lot of Indian industrialists who are philanthropic but don't say it outside. He is picking whom he wants to pick to support his argument. Why don't he pick the Narayanamurthys or Premjis or the Tatas?

An interesting thing to know is this: Has our culture shaped our faith or has our faith shaped our culture? I cannot say. To return to the question we started with: Why is Brahma not worshipped? The answer is obvious: He has nothing to offer us. What he could do for us, create the universe, he already has. There is no gain in petitioning him now.

Ha Ha, Shri. KRS. I want to write to this guy because I think I have an argument. I live in Dubai where generally the practice is you don't jump the queue, keep toilets clean, drive within lanes, don't honk on the roads and has never bribed anyone here. But I am also a staunch Hindu who does the fire sacrifice and do poojas at home for no specific reason, don't do barter deals with gods. I think these two have no connection. You tend to live in a society as per the rules of a society. We have a office nearby populated by Arabs from neighboring countries who create a mess in the rest room by washing their feet in the wash basins during prayer times. If you ask me whether their religion has asked them to do it I would say no because I have also seen Muslims doing a symbolic washing of their feet by sprinkling water. To associate all our behavioral attitudes to religion is a bit too much.
 
To generalise all brahmins are abodes of god is not acceptable. Not All of them really deserve to be called to a good human being first. In other words, just as in other sections of the society, good and bad are mixed amongst brahmins too. But, regarding the proportion, I do not want to hazard any guess.

At the same time, with one bizarre incident painting all brahmins with the same brush is clearly condemnable.
 
Dear all,

Thank you for your responses. I am still thinking about this topic. I do not think that any of us would deny the charecteristics of Indians that were discussed in the e-mail, starting from que jumping, to the traffic behaviour, handling garbage etc. By the way, I believe these are common to all Indians irrespective of their current religions.

If these behaviours do not stem from culture, which in turn stems from the moral aspects stemming from one's religion, wherefrom we witness these seemingly unique charecteristics applicable only to Indians?

Our giving to others, especially if we are vaishyas has not codified any tithe as both Christianity and Islam enjoin all their followers to do. It is a known fact that our rich ones have not traditionally contributed in proportion to their wealth.

If it is not religion, then what is making a majority in our society to behave this?

Regards,
KRS
 
KRS,

i don't know but i have been thinking about this for a long time.

not particularly about our mass behaviour but about the consequences of over population and crowding.

i am not sure if the chinese behave like this. but another more overpopulated society ie japan, has a completely different attitude towards order.

a fmarathi riend of mine, who grew up in bombay of the fifties and sixties, used to say how quiet and civilzed the thoroughfares of bombay used to be, till the south indians came en masse and drove down the public morals.

brought up in a quiet madras of the 50s thru 60s, i am surprised at the crowds. when i grew up, queueing in bus stops was the norms. nobody jumped ahead. but nowadays, it is survival of the fittest and God save the sick, the children and the women.

in mid 70s, i was coming on an air india flight out of montreal to bombay. all the other airline booths were civilzed except ours. there was pell mell, melee with the kids and moms screaming and masses & masses of luggage.

the white air canada staff who were doing the check-ins were treating us naughty kids. that was the last time i flew an indian airline till recent jet/kingfisher who know how to hold crowds at bay by giving extra good service :)

too many people, brought up in an era of scarcity and limited availablity post independence. i find that the newly arrived i.t. guys have a poise and dignity about them, which myself and those of us who migrated in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s did not have.

even in the airports and public places, these guys stand out with their laptops, blackberries and above all a trademark smirk, which might irk the locals but as one who has been a பட்டிக்காட்டான் for whom the RBI would give only US$8 when i left india in 1973, the sight of these is a matter of pride and joy.

regarding charity, the chinese are just like us. they are tight fisted and even though extremely wealthy in canada, they are on par with the indians regarding show of charity either monetarily or such events as blood donations (blood in canada is a honour affair and provided to the needy & cannot be bought or sold) or food banks.

there are plenty of indian and chinese kids volunteering in hospitals, because this gives them brownie points in their medical college application.

just now i had this email sent to me that indians have 70 lakh crores of ruppees stored in swiss banks. apparently neither the ruling party nor the opposition wants disclosure from the swiss government, as it is suspected that a good portion of this money belongs to the politicians.

my school masters used to point out our lack of social civility. they attributed this to the british rule, in the sense, that public property was (british) government owned, and hence any disregard for that was ok.

i think prosperity over the years, new generations not knowing ration and starvation, internet and cell phones, all of these will improve our public morals. bolly/kolly/tool and the movie making woods of india can go a long way in public education. but these appear to set silly examples of instant falling in love and talking of marriage as soon as boy meets girl. fantasy is practised in reality, apparently in all aspects of indian life (!)

i agree with you, this mass (mis)behaviour cuts across all religions and appears equally present with pakistanis, banglas and srilankans.
too many people, too little space, too small a pie and above all absence of strong ethics all over. what to do?

just imagine, if our population had remained stable at the level of the independence time ie 425 million. we definitely would have more space and a bigger share of the pie for everyone.

thank you.
 
this is a chain letter that i received just a little while ago. though i believe this to be exaggerated, it is telling, that in a short period of about 20 years since we opened up the economy so much wealthy has been transported to switzerland illegally.

i have no way to verify the truth in this:

Our Indians' Money - 70,00,000 Crores Rupees In Swiss Bank

1) Yes, 70 lakhs crores rupees of India are lying in Switzerland banks. This is the highest amount lying outside any country, from amongst 180 countries of the world, as if India is the champion of Black Money.


2) German Government has officially written to Indian Government that they (German Government) are willing to inform the details of holders of 70 lakh crore rupees in their Banks, if Indian Government officially asks them.

3) On 22-5-08, this news has already been published in The Times of India and other Newspapers based on German Government's official letter to Indian Government.

4) But the Indian Government has not sent any official enquiry to Germany for details of money which has been sent outside India between 1947 to 2008. The opposition party is also equally not interested in doing so because most of the amount is owned by politicians and it is every Indian's money.

5) This money belongs to our country. From these funds we can repay 13 times of our country's foreign debt. The interest alone can take care of the Centre's yearly budget. People need not pay any taxes and we can pay Rs. 1 lakh to each of 45 crore poor families.

6) Let us imagine, if Swiss Bank is holding Rs. 70 lakh crores, then how much money is lying in other 69 Banks? How much they have deprived the Indian people?Just think, if the Account holder dies, the bank becomes the owner of the funds in his account.

7) Are these people totally ignorant about the philosophy of Karma? What will this ill-gotten wealth do to them and their families when they own/use such money, generated out of corruption and exploitation?

icon_cool.gif
Indian people have read and have known about these facts. But the helpless people have neither time nor inclination to do anything in the matter. This is like "a new freedom struggle" and we will have to fight this.


9) This money is the result of our sweat and blood. The wealth generated and earned after putting in lots of mental and physical efforts by Indian people must be brought back to our country.

 
Individual behaviour often reflects the society... and society is but the collection of individuals...

I think that these might have to do with what one perceives as individual goals - which is to become successful at any cost.

This thought is so drilled into our minds that when questioned, we point examples of the other...

It can only be set right by example... and that means the law. But law is just a piece of paper which has no real value in practice, except for the purse-heavy...

IMO, this starts from early days. Most of the children are compared with others, be it caste, colour, richness, education or any other. The only thought in the mind of the child is to best the other, come what may. This leads to a sub-consciousness general insecurity in the mind. As the child grows up, this branches and may result in a totally different behaviour... like piling in airports... 'you see, I am first in queue' or ' I got into the plane early' or 'I did not stand in the queue for long'.

People often talk of IQ and EQ being the discriminating factors between the east and the west... more specifically, Indians in this case. High intellect does not equate to literacy, but may relate to the ability to get things for themselves when it is known that the consequences are not that bad.

For instance, occuping the other side of the road is a common scenario, but still it goes on daily unheeded. Coz, they can always argue with the traffic-police that the route was clear. Worst case - dash out some money to satisfy the ego of the cop. Solves the problem. The thought is that - 'if I do not do it, then someone else might, in which case I am a loser. And since it happens regularly, the risk of being caught is remote'.

The unfortunate things is - everyone thinks the same.

The state is no exception. Instead of leading by example, it has jumped into the fray. The general conclusion seems to be that since the people themselves are jumping the line to their convenience, why should they bother about a bigger stage. That is why, in governance, we have a limited set to choose from - varying slightly only in their gradation of hypocrisy.

Any correction to be done must begin from down the hierarchy, ie., the state. Therefore, it takes the credit for the state of affairs, as it is.

If there were no strict law-enforcement in other countries, would this still be only an Indian characteristic?
 
In deciding the degree of discipline in an individual, the following factors come into play.

1. Parental upbringing which itself is influenced by the behaviour of the parents
themselves.

2. Income and wealth level

3. Formal Education / Level of literacy

4. Social environment that includes political too.

5. Group think

6. Legal framework within the country

7. Impartiality and Quickness in delivery of justice.

8. Interaction with other groups or communities through whatever mode

9. Religious codes

10. Morals and Ethics, handed down over generations and generations - need not
be from the same ancestral line. Here, the culture plays a very, very important
role. By culture, we mean, the language, arts & crafts, literature, music, social
manners/etiquette, beliefs, customs and traditions.

In addition to these, the personal choice of the individual concerned determines his path and disciplined behaviour

One of these cannot function in the absence of others and all influence others and get influenced by others.

Therefore, to stem the rot, a beginning has to be made somewhere. All individuals are not capable of realising their mistakes and even if they do, they cannot change themselves that easily. Therefore, a pragmatic approach will be to inculcate discipline at various levels in the following order.

1. At home
2. At school
3. In the friendship circle, by choosing the right kind of friends
4. At Individual level
5. Economic status of the family and the overall economy of the nation.
6. Law and Justice
7. Culture
8. Renaissance in the social sphere, by encouraging only healthy aspects of language, literature, painting, sculpture, music, dance, entertainment etc.
9. Free, quick,reliable and the right amount of information flow
10. Compulsory enrolment in military service for everyone - both boys and girls -
in the age group of 16 to 25 years, for at least 2 years.
11. Increasing the interaction with the healthy societies like Japan

These are just some suggestions.

But one thing. The malaise is widespread in India and is easily noticeable by a layman too. But, larger malaises at very few places at the top of ruling and business estblishments and in some cases religious entities too, are not known to everybody.

That doesn't mean everything is fine, everywhere. In fact, these are the malaises that spoil the whole country's image and show wrong ways to the youth.
 
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Indian characteristics:

1) Greed:
Ah well, its the system. Not my problem. I didn't create it. I am forced to be a part of it. If someone asks for a bribe, i might haggle, but i'll pay. Since i pay, i expect someone to pay me a bribe as well.

2) Selfishness:

a) I will throw litter all around, i don't care abt others.

b) I want to get on to the bus first - and get a window seat. I am blind that there is an old man and a handicapped girl standing. There are so many old people, handicapped people, poor people in this world, i cannot be responsible for all of them, when others don't care why should i.

c) I will care only about me and my own.

d) I love hoarding, my few crores are not enuf, no one knows when i may need it. I won't give a penny to anyone.

e) I will do a sloppy job. Who cares about quality.

3) Image problem

a) I will never sweep the roads around my house, my neighbours will laugh. Let it be dirty. Its the corporation's job.

b) I must buy the most expensive gifts for everyone in my family and the neighbourhood, otherwise my image will get spoiled.

c) I will remain a show-off, even if i cannot afford it.

d) We indians are the most intelligent people on earth, you know, we never work hard to invent anything, we only talk, claim, live in old 'glory', and call ourselves intelligent.

e) We indians are so wise with a high EQ, we are considerate and never hurt even animals. But we don't mind watching beggers eating from dustbins - its their karma and not our problem - the government does not do anything, so why shd i.

f) The system is corrupt, but i am so good. My only philosophy is that we must learn to adjust, adjust and adjust.

g) I love to point fingers at everyone else, but i will never look inside myself.


Regards.
 
hi folk.
according to me indians are having peculiar characteristics...
we point out others easily....when we pointing one finger to
others and three fingers towards us...it means...
1, gready
2, overconfidence
3 selfish...
indians are generally okay ...indian system never works...
i heard a story sometime back....a crab packaging in the world...
japanesse packing the box properly...chinesse with proper care...
indians packing the boxes openly...without any seal/cover the
box... so somebody asked about the technic of indian crabs...
so 1 indian explained that...indian crabs never go out of the box..
if any crab to move out/go up ...other crab grab the leg of other
one...so no need of cover the box....no crab go out of the box...
the moral of the story...is the characteristics of indian nature...
may due to cell/genetical...only GOD protect our MERA BHARAT
MAHAAN...


regards
tbs
 
Thank you all (Sri Sapthajihva ji, Sri Pannvalan ji, Srimathi HH ji and Sri tbs ji) for your input.

A new Indian vegetable market opened in the town I live in USA and this is the only place I have seen over the past weeks paper garbage and other food items being thrown around the store. Where I live this is unusual, as my cuty is usuallt litter free.

On the other hand, when I visted India this year, I stayed in a beach house in Besant Nagar with friends. The beach was filthy and I noticed that there were not any garbage bins near any of the food stalls. But then I witnessed a miracle, As I sat on the store parapeet at the edge of the beach, I witnessed an obviously a middle class couple (non brahmins) who bought ise cream bars from a nearby vendor. I was expecting them to throw away the paper packaged around their bars on the ground, since there were no garbage bins around, the young woman wrapped them and put them in her purse, obviously to throw in their garbage later!

This is all to do with a pride of taking care of one's own, both private and public. I really think that we lack this pride about public places - and this is the difference between us and the western world - and I think it is starting anyway.

I think only peer pressure will accelerate this behaviour. And education.

Regards,
KRS
 
I think only peer pressure will accelerate this behaviour. And education.

Regards,
KRS

well and rightly said oh wise moderator. as always ofcourse :)

to see anything else coming out of your noble pen, the earth has to stop rotating and the sun not shine. and barack obama suddenly acquires a white skin :)

education. forbidding stares from strangers. but placing a lot of garbage bins all over, would also help. i think.
 
Hey Raghy, you may throw some light on this one mate:

US Marine Tells Australian Girls To Cover Up, Offends Nation

Don't forget to click on the link at the end of the article :)

Cheers!

Sri.Nara,

I see those girls are very decently dressed for the occassion. What is wrong with that marine? does his religion forbid girls showing a bit of skin? well, The Aussies enjoy the freedom in secured comfort. Northern Terrotory post was right to post the link; that link represents most of the Aussies. there is a positive advantage to this type of culture; most responsible people are very healthy!

(I did not go through all the 109 pictures in the link though. Those girls are quite decently dressed for the occassion. :) ).

cheers!
 
raghy,

i don't know... but i think they are sort of overdressed :)

Yes, I was some what disappointed too :laugh:

I was in a hurry leaving Seattle so I could not explain why I posted this link. In a different thread we are talking about how women can make men go into a tizzy. This is just upside down thinking. In the U.S. and I am quite sure if this true in conservative U.S. it must be more so elsewhere in the west, when a woman says no, it is no, even if the couple is in the middle of it.

Talk about guarding against woman's natural charm or dhooshanam or whatever, is downright 6th century Islam. If a man, that too vipashrita, can't control himself it is his fault, not that of the woman, or her nature, or anything else.

Further, if at an advanced age and during Thapas he can't control himself, like the great sage Viswamaithra, then don't blame Menaka, the great sage must take responsibility. What does the great sage do after having all the fun, consumed with his own selfishness he just abandoned the child he produced.

Should he be our role model or Kanva Maharishi who raised the child as his own?

This marine captain, if he is real, will make Manu proud.

Cheers!
 
........
Talk about guarding against woman's natural charm or dhooshanam or whatever, is downright 6th century Islam. If a man, that too vipashrita, can't control himself it is his fault, not that of the woman, or her nature, or anything else.

....
Yes, that is what Manu says - you are too much in a hurry so as to grab any garbage meaning which is against manusmriti.

Whether the literal shows Manu's character or not, your's surely do... :)
 
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