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Yuddhishtara and the Crane: Essence of Dharma in the Mahabharata

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P.J.

P.J.

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Yuddhishtara and the Crane: Essence of Dharma in the Mahabharata


In the great story of the Mahabharata war, the five Pandava brothers, during their exile in the forest, went through many adventures, some of which are highly symbolic and instructive. One such incident occurred towards the end of their stay in the forests. It so happened that the Pandavas, tired by their constant wanderings, sat down on the ground and one of them went in search of water. When he did not return even after a long interval, another of the brothers went after him. He too did not return. The others followed one by one till finally only Yuddhishtara, the eldest of the five remained. Worried, he also went their way till he came to a lake. There he saw his brothers lying lifeless on the ground.

As he lamented his loss, he heard a voice from the sky: "O Yuddhishtara, I warned your brothers not to drink water from this lake which belongs to me, but they did not respect my words. Hence, I have sent them all to the other world. If you too try to take water without first answering the questions I ask, you will have the same fate."

Yuddhishtara looked up and saw a crane perched atop a tree; he then replied: "I do not want to touch what belongs to you. Grieved as I am by my brothers’ fate, I will try my best to satisfy you with my answers." The divine bird then started to ask its questions:

Question: Who makes the sun rise? Who travels on all sides of the sun? What makes the sun set? Where is the sun established?

Yuddhishtara’s Answer: It is the Vedas which make the sun rise. It is the gods who travel with the sun. The sun sets because of Dharma, and it is established in truth.

Nilakantha, the most ancient and authoritative commentator on the Mahabharata has clarified the meaning of this verse. According to him, it is through the Vedas that we realize that there is a soul beyond our physical body. This is the ‘arising’ of knowledge. The gods who travel with the sun are the various qualities like control of senses, mind etc. which we have to cultivate on the path of knowledge. The setting of the sun symbolizes the end of physical knowledge, achieved by the practice of our Dharma. Finally we are situated in the True knowledge of the One Supreme Reality.

May be some one from this forum will throw more light on the Question and Answer !!

Please do not try to ridicule the greatness of Mahabharata by your answer, please educate members like me with more knowledge.

Thanks


Yuddhishtara and the Crane: Essence of Dharma in the Mahabharata
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Dear PJ sir,

Technically the Sun neither rises nor sets..its the the Earth that orbits around the Sun.

Going by what Yudhi said..if Dharma makes the Sun set..this is Kali Yuga and everyone is screaming "Adharma Adharma" even then the Sun sets..so how can this be true?

May be there is a possibility that the Sun here is not the physical Sun.

There is a terminology known as Jnanabhaskara..the Sun of Wisdom.

I have read before that the heart is the inner sky...the Sun that shines is Buddhi or intelligence(Jnanabhaskara)

Now lets look at the original Q and A:

Question: Who makes the sun rise? Who travels on all sides of the sun? What makes the sun set? Where is the sun established?

Yuddhishtara’s Answer: It is the Vedas which make the sun rise. It is the gods who travel with the sun. The sun sets because of Dharma, and it is established in truth.
Click to expand...

Vedas gives us wisdom..hence makes the "Sun" a.k.a. Buddhi rise.

When we thread the Vedic path we are threading the path of the Gods(Uttarayana) hence it can be said that gods travel with the "Sun".

Next is the Sun sets becos of Dharma.

The setting of the Sun denotes the end of the day..even birds fly back to their nest at the end of the day during Sun Set.

So here Sun sets denotes the "end of our journey" after sailing across the Ocean of Samsara in the raft of Dharma.

This is just my opinion.
 
Renukaji

Being a Doctor , your knowledge in Spirituality is amazing!!

Let me wait for other knowledgeable members answers.
 
Dear P J Sir,

I was curious to know about the other question - answers and searched HERE.

Liked the following one the most!

Question No. 2: Yaksha enquired: What instills 'divinity' in Brahmins? What is the quality of virtuosity in a Brahmin? What is the human-like

quality of a Brahmin? What is the conduct akin to a non-virtuous person in a Brahmin?

Yudhisthira replied: The self-study (Swadhyana) of the Vedas is divinity in a Brahmin. Penance is the quality like a virtuous person in a

Brahmin. Death is human-like quality in a Brahmin. Criticizing others is conduct in a Brahmin like a non-virtuous person.
Click to expand...
 
Raji Madam


Why I selected the first question is because that the question itself looked like lay man's question as we all know Sun never rises or sets; Even prior to Mahabarata Days, Sages could fix the days of Amavasa/ Pounami etc etc So they were very highly knowledgeable and Yaksha asking this Question arose my interest in it; renukaji answered it very well, and i am hoping to get more knowledgeable answers from other members.
 
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P.J. said:
Raji Madam


Why I selected the first question is because that the question itself looked like lay man's question as we all know Sun never rises or sets; Even prior to Mahabarata Days, Sages could fix the days of Amavasa/ Pounami etc etc So they were very highly knowledgeable and Yaksha asking this Question arose my interest in it; renukaji answered it very well, and i am hoping to get more knowledgeable answers from other members.
Click to expand...

Dear PJ,

It is debatable whether the ancient people in the Mahabharata days knew much about astronomy. Those were the times when the belief still was that the earth was held aloft by the aṣṭadiggajas or the eight directional elephants. Obviously their earth was flat and the four cardinal directions ESWN had each its own protecting/presiding devas whom the brahmin worships even today as part of his sandhyaavandanam.

Calendar-keeping was one of the duties which was entrusted to braahmanas (and not even to kshatriyas or vaishyas). If one makes a deep study of the compulsory vedic yagas or sacrifices which every braahmana was obliged to do, it will be found - without much difficulty - that those routines were designed to keep track of the lunar and solar movements. Hence, a brahmin could always tell the tithi and nakshatra of any day and even predict those for any future date, but the accuracy of such predictions would have been highly questionable; but the word of the braahmana was final in such matters and could/would not be questioned even by the king/ruler.

Hence, there is no reason to go in search for any deep and mystic meaning/s behind/underlying the 18 questions in the Yakshaprasna and the answers supposed to have been given by Yudhishtira, etc. These answers are based on the orthodox scriptural beliefs of those times; that's all. For example, even today our Vaadhyaars chant a portion from our yajurveda which talks about a class of asuras called "mandehas" (மந்தேஹாள் என்னும் அசுராள் - your vaadhyaar will explain if you enquire) who are constantly at war with the sun and make it set in the west everyday; if the arghyams of the braahmanas in the morning do not reach the heavens and turn to vajraayudha and defeat these மந்தேஹாள் என்னும் அசுராள், the sun will not rise at all - at least on that day, punctually.

Therefore, the question which you have cited could very well have been answered by Yudhishtira as :—

Who makes the sun rise? — The arghyams of braahmanas given during sandhyaavandanam.
Who travels on all sides of the sun?— The vajraayudhas which are the arghyams transformed.
What makes the sun set?— The mandehas, or, மந்தேஹாள் என்னும் அசுராள்
Where is the sun established? — In the sky or bhuvarlokam

Why the Mahabharatha gives a different set of answers is because there always seems to have been a Brahmana-Kshatriya clash of interests and a good portion of our scriptures is occupied by the tales or aftermaths of such clash of the Titans. Detailing this will make this post unduly lengthy.



 
sangom said:
.... if the arghyams of the braahmanas in the morning do not reach the heavens and turn to vajraayudha and defeat these மந்தேஹாள் என்னும் அசுராள், the sun will not rise at all - at least on that day, punctually.
Click to expand...
Surprisingly, there are some brahmis who still believe this. A few years ago I was chatting with a bunch of Veda Phatashala teachers, mostly young fellows in their twenties, teaching younger kids in the teens. At that time Tamil Nadu was undergoing severe drought. These guys were convinced it is the fault of bramanas. Their argument was, if only they will stop offering arghayam for a few days, the sun won't rise and there will be rain.

Surely this view is limited to just a few kids taking what their elders taught them to be absolutely true, but then, this is what is there in the Vedas, this is among the teachings of the Vedas.
 
Sri Nara Sir

I still believe that even during Mahabarata days, and even prior to that, Sages were highly knowledgeable in Astronomy!!

The Yaksha's questions and Dharmaraja's answers must have deeper meaning.
 
P.J. said:
I still believe that even during Mahabarata days, and even prior to that, Sages were highly knowledgeable in Astronomy!!

The Yaksha's questions and Dharmaraja's answers must have deeper meaning.
Click to expand...
Dear P.J. whether these sages were knowledgeable enough or not is a matter of faith, I don't want to question your faith. Please note, what I was commenting on is the present day youngsters indoctrinated in the Vedic idea that Brahmins offering argyam causes the sun to rise and if only they stop offering argyam, the sun won't rise and somehow that result in the much needed rain.

I am sure it is only a miniscule minority of brahmins, those confined to sequestered and insulated vedic studies, but they got these silly ideas from Vedic teachings, that is my point, I hope you see it.

best regards ...
 
Sri.Nara Sir

I fully agree with your point; yes, there are a few miniscule minority of brahmins who believe offering argyam causes the sun to rise and if only they stop offering argyam, the sun won't rise and somehow that result in the much needed rain.

Thanks Sir.


 
P.J. said:
Sri.Nara Sir

I fully agree with your point; yes, there are a few miniscule minority of brahmins who believe offering argyam causes the sun to rise and if only they stop offering argyam, the sun won't rise and somehow that result in the much needed rain.

Thanks Sir.
Click to expand...


But I thought its becos of chaste women it rains.

very confusing!LOL
 
Children Sitting inside the Train compartment used to push it, thinking because they push it, the train is moving!!

In the same way minority of brahmins who believe offering argyam causes the sun to rise and if only they stop offering argyam, the sun won't rise and somehow that result in the much needed rain.

Dharmaraja's answer must have a very deep meaning and renukaji's explanation is wonderful.

Still i feel there is something more to it, like Nature's Law , which is a permanent Truth and Truth represents Gods.
 
renuka said:
But I thought its becos of chaste women it rains. .... very confusing!LOL
Click to expand...
Dear Renu,

There is another explanation for the following 'kuraL' you have in mind.

'தெய்வம் தொழாள் கொழுநன் தொழுதெழுவாள்
பெய்யெனப் பெய்யும் மழை.'

The woman who will not pray God but pray her husband when she gets up (in the morning)

is comparable to the rain which rains when requested! :)

She will be so obedient that she will fulfill whatever is her husband's wish!
 
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Raji Ram said:
Dear Renu,

There is another explanation for the following 'kuraL' you have in mind.

'தெய்வம் தொழாள் கொழுநன் தொழுதெழுவாள்
பெய்யெனப் பெய்யும் மழை.'

The woman who will not pray God but pray her husband when she gets up (in the morning)

is comparable to the rain which rains when requested! :)

She will be so obedient that she will fulfill whatever is her husband's wish!
Click to expand...

Dear RR ji,

The rain fall here in Malaysia is much higher than India!LOL
 
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P.J. said:
Dharmaraja's answer must have a very deep meaning and renukaji's explanation is wonderful.
Click to expand...

Dear PJ sir,

Thank you but all credits should go to the works of Sathya Sai Baba..reading Sathya Sai Speaks gives us answers to many questions.
 
Nara said:
Dear P.J. whether these sages were knowledgeable enough or not is a matter of faith, I don't want to question your faith.
Click to expand...

It is not a question of faith. It is a question of fact. Anyone who has read at least some portion of taitittiriya samhita which documents the nakshatras etc. would know that there is at least rudimentary knowledge (which may not be error free)in the vedas. Please be clarified that I am talking of astronomy and not phalita-jyotisham or astrology.

Please note, what I was commenting on is the present day youngsters indoctrinated in the Vedic idea that Brahmins offering argyam causes the sun to rise and if only they stop offering argyam, the sun won't rise and somehow that result in the much needed rain.
Click to expand...

You may use fancy terms like "indcotrination" etc. But the readiness with which Sri PJ agreed to both your posts and Sri Sangom's just shows that the readiness with which people accept the knowledge shared by the people who they think are in position of better knowledge, notwithstanding the fact that the knowledge disseminated is partial and inaccurate at best.

A discerning student who uses "kalviyaRivum and paghuththaRivu thanmaniyum" will explore further and will come to know that there are things like "lakshaNam" of various RuThus including varsha Ruthu and it is a cyclic event as can be found in taittiriya Aranyakam

I am sure it is only a miniscule minority of brahmins, those confined to sequestered and insulated vedic studies, but they got these silly ideas from Vedic teachings, that is my point, I hope you see it.
Click to expand...

Contrary to your opinion the miniscule minority of brahmins who have "good vedic knowledge" will know the made up theories and force fitted stories and will not believe the C & b bull stories.
 
P.J. said:
Children Sitting inside the Train compartment used to push it, thinking because they push it, the train is moving!!

In the same way minority of brahmins who believe offering argyam causes the sun to rise and if only they stop offering argyam, the sun won't rise and somehow that result in the much needed rain.

Dharmaraja's answer must have a very deep meaning and renukaji's explanation is wonderful.

Still i feel there is something more to it, like Nature's Law , which is a permanent Truth and Truth represents Gods.
Click to expand...

Dear Shri PJ,

A small number of brahmins/brahmin boys believe that it is due to their 'arghyam' that the sun is enabled to rise after defeating the asuras known as mandehas, even in the 20th. or the 21st. century A.D., is the matter to be noted, imo. All these youngsters must surely be learning about the solar system, planetary movements, rotation/revolution of the earth, how the seasons are caused, etc. Still, if some of them are convinced about the arghyams and their effectiveness against an imagined group of mandehas fighting to destroy the sun forever, etc., then such a theory is no longer mystical or 'deeper meaning' of some verse but sheer nonsense.

Even in regard to the clarification given by you in your OP (Nilakantha, the most ancient and authoritative commentator on the Mahabharata), it appears to me that the word Brahma in the original sloka (ब्रह्मादित्यमुन्नयति - It is Brahman which makes the Sun rise.) may be more appropriate than an involved interpretation of Brahma=Vedas, because unnayati is singular and so the original writer of this Yaksha Prasna has, obviously, not intended Vedas (plural) but, if at all, only "veda" (singular); but Mahabharata in other contexts talks about three or four vedas, to the best of my knowledge.

Again, to the part of the first question of Yaksha, कश्चैनमस्तं नयति=who leads this (i.e.,sun) to its setting (astam)?, the original reply धर्मश्चास्तं नयति=Dharma leads to setting, is quite appropriate; to make a very contorted meaning by saying things like "Sun sets denotes the "end of our journey" after sailing across the Ocean of Samsara in the raft of Dharma (because,) setting of the Sun denotes the end of the day..even birds fly back to their nest at the end of the day during Sun Set.", is not very elegant, according to me. If sun is Buddhi in line 1 of the sloka, how can it be said that this Buddhi sets or "appears to disappear" at the end of the sailing across of the ocean of samsaara? Further, if this Buddhi rises only when Vedas gives us wisdom (Vedas gives us wisdom..hence makes the "Sun" a.k.a. Buddhi rise.) what about all the births before vedas could make the Buddhi rise? What about those who are not authorized to even hear the vedas?

If one considers all these aspects, it will be found that such slokas are like quicksand, and the deeper one tries to delve, the more fatal it will become. It is the best policy to float on such slokas and be satisfied, therefore.
 
Sri sangom Sir

Thanks for your detailed explanation on this verse.

I am not agreeing with the Nilakantha explanation for the Dharmaraja's answer; hence i was requesting learned members here to share their views on this Verse. Nilakantha's explanation is more confusing.

Definitely i am not agreeing to view that because of brahmins who believe offering argyam causes the sun to rise and if only they stop offering argyam, the sun won't rise and somehow that result in the much needed rain.



 
zebra16 said:
It is not a question of faith. It is a question of fact.
Click to expand...
Dear Narayan, First, please take my comment as relating to the idea that sun rising is due to the arghya offering, To take this as a fact because sages of yore were knowledgeable about astronomy requires faith. That is what I was talking about.

Finding some astronomy in the samhitas does not make everything stated in the samhitas true or the sages who wrote those samhitas were very knowledgeable in astronomy. The sky was out there for all to see, and when writing about these stars even somebody who is clueless about astronomy can get some details right. I am not saying these sages were rubes, just that to see them as "highly knowledgeable in Astronomy" -- that is what P.J. said -- is a matter of faith.

There are many other cultures around the world who also had rudimentary knowledge of the skies, or even sophisticated knowledge for their times. I am sure you know of Mayan astronomy. The level of sophistication they achieved without any advanced tools is simply amazing.

Also, the astronomy we find in the samhitas is more than compensated by the preponderance of irrational superstitions we find in them.



Anyone who has read at least some portion of taitittiriya samhita which documents the nakshatras etc. would know that there is at least rudimentary knowledge (which may not be error free)in the vedas.
Click to expand...
Yes, I am not objecting to this at all. Sure they had rudimentary knowledge, which also means they were ignorant of a whole lot about the skies. How would you explain the Vedic claim that earth is kept aloft by 8 elephants?

You may use fancy terms like "indcotrination" etc. But the readiness with which Sri PJ agreed to both your posts and Sri Sangom's just shows that the readiness with which people accept the knowledge shared by the people who they think are in position of better knowledge, notwithstanding the fact that the knowledge disseminated is partial and inaccurate at best.
Click to expand...
I never claimed to have better knowledge. If people form such opinions I can't be held responsible for it. Your second charge that I disseminated partial and inaccurate knowledge is completely unfounded. You are just jumping to conclusions.

A discerning student who uses "kalviyaRivum and paghuththaRivu thanmaniyum" will explore further and will come to know that there are things like "lakshaNam" of various RuThus including varsha Ruthu and it is a cyclic event as can be found in taittiriya Aranyakam
Click to expand...
This is good advice, one I can get behind. All of us must be discerning students, we all must use கல்வியறிவு and பகுத்தறிவு and take only what makes sense, reject what does not, and reserve final conclusion when there is some evidence but is inconclusive.

Contrary to your opinion the miniscule minority of brahmins who have "good vedic knowledge" will know the made up theories and force fitted stories and will not believe the C & b bull stories.
Click to expand...
Narayan, I did not express any opinion about the handful of young veda phatashala teachers who believe it is the power of their arghya that makes the sun appear. I did say they are a miniscule minority. The opinion I expressed was as follows,

"Surely this view is limited to just a few kids taking what their elders taught them to be absolutely true, but then, this is what is there in the Vedas, this is among the teachings of the Vedas."

​
I agree with you that most brahmins, even the ones with ""good vedic knowledge" will not believe in the cock and bull story that arghyam makes the sun rise. But my point was not that at all. See above for what I said and meant.
 
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What makes the sun rise? Brahma
Who moves around him? Gods
What causes the sun to set? Dharma
How is he held firm? Truth

kimsvidadityamunnayati
ke ca tasyabhitashcarah
kashcainamastam nayati
kasmimshca pratitishthati

brahmadityamunnayati
devastasyabhitashcarah
dharmascastamnayati ca
satye ca pratitishthati


Commentary

i) There are two interpretations to this riddle;(11) one sees the sun (aditya) as the natural wonder, the life-giving center of this world system and a principal creation of Brahma; the other interprets the sun to be the atma jyoti, the inner light.

The sun rises into view each morning as ordained by the Creator, Brahma. At the same time, the supreme knowledge of the Vedas causes the illumination of the atma jyoti.

ii) As Savitri said to Yama in an earlier section of the Mahabharata, "It is the truth of the good (people) that causes brilliance in the sun." Also, "By the power of the Rig Veda the sun rises in the morning; the same sun stays fixed at high noon by the power of the Yajur Veda; It is the power of the Sama Veda that causes his brilliance at setting."*

iii) Gods keep the Atman company, just as the planets, named after the Gods, circle the sun. When the self is realized through knowledge, that inner illumination leads to the man-God relationship which is the quest of Hinduism.

iv) The sun and the atma j yoti are firmly fixed in truth. The sun is held in space by physical laws of gravitation, energy and motion - by evident truths. The atma jyoti is sustained by eternal Truth, which exists beyond time.

v) The end result of this knowledge is dharma or right conduct. Dharmic action performed under the guidelines of one's own faith is interpreted as the cause for the brilliance of the atma jyoti.

*from the Taittiriya Brahmana.


Summary

The sun in all its phases, rising, setting or fixed in space, recalls the rising within us of the atma jyoti. The natural laws governing time and the heavenly bodies and the moral law, dharma, are equated here.


Yaksha Prasna
 
P.J. said:
< snipped >

Summary

The sun in all its phases, rising, setting or fixed in space, recalls the rising within us of the atma jyoti. The natural laws governing time and the heavenly bodies and the moral law, dharma, are equated here.


Yaksha Prasna
Click to expand...

Dear Shri PJ,

The problem I have is with the highlighted sentence. The physical sun rises, makes its course through the sky and sets every evening as definitely as it rises the next morning. We now know, thanks to many a Mleccha scientist and astronomer how and why exactly these phenomena appear to happen; the sun remains where it is while the earth rotates around its axis once a day.

If the Atma jyoti is likened to the sun, will it not look that the Atma jyoti (sun) remains where it is (i.e., within us) while something else makes a periodic movement which makes it appear as though the Atmajyoti rises, stays in course and sets. You will agree that such comparisons will be odious, as the saying goes. That exactly is why I still hold the view that searching for deeper meanings in such slokas is a meaningless affair. I recall Kamalahasan's dialogue in one movie, பழமொழி சொன்னா அனுபவிக்கணும் - should stop with that!

Take for example what is said in your own post:

ii) As Savitri said to Yama in an earlier section of the Mahabharata, "It is the truth of the good (people) that causes brilliance in the sun." Also, "By the power of the Rig Veda the sun rises in the morning; the same sun stays fixed at high noon by the power of the Yajur Veda; It is the power of the Sama Veda that causes his brilliance at setting."*

*from the Taittiriya Brahmana.

Here also Kamalahasan's words are apt. How else could this hilarious statement be understood?
 
Sri.sangom Sir

Yes, i see your point; using the words Sun rising and Sun setting in the explanation is not acceptable .
 
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P.J. said:
Sri.sangom Sir

Yes, i see your point; using the words Sun rising and Sun setting is not acceptable .
Click to expand...

Thank you, Sir. It is better not to read too much into such puranic stories. The impression I get is that someone at some point of time thought of emphasizing some of his own views on certain matters. So, he wrote in the entire crane-yudhi episode or at least included his own questions into it. The Mahabharata itself can be likened to our TBF archives but here we don't have stories interconnecting the various threads, that's all.
 
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