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The Myth of Brahmin Suppression

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Brahmastra

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The common myth of the supression of other castes by brahmins with regards education etc.
  • The biggest myth is that lower classes were prevented from education – verses from smrithis like the manu are provided in support of this argument. But it is to be noted that only the Vedas or the shruti were exclusive for dvijas. Other texts like the smrithis, the puraanaas, the ithihaasaas and all other sundry literature were open to the wide public.
  • Shankara in his Brahma Sutra Baashya categorically asserts that the Vedaanta should be taught only to dvijas (braahmana, kshatriya, vaishya). But that’s how much it was – only Vedaanta. Vedaanta in Shankara’s terms can be learnt only by sanyaasis and it is only here that he forbids non-dvijas from learning - and not education or secular knowledge. Don’t even the common fruit seller know how to count, even though the numeric system is the Sanskrit numeric system? Other than restricting access to the shruti, whatever knowledge they developed – religious or secular - the Brahmins spread it out for the welfare of the society.
  • If education were open only to the dvijas then how do you have Vaalmiki composing Raamaayana or Thiruvalluvar composing Thirukkural? Or the numerous works on bhakti by non-brahmin bhakti saints etc?
  • Also Hinduism is not a centralized religion. Various forms of it is practiced in various regions of the country. So what applies in Kerala (the "lunatic asylum" of Vivekananda) needn’t necessarily apply in Gujarat or Kashmir or other parts of the country. Even right next door in TamilNadu the conditions and dynamics were totally different.
  • And Hinduism is not the only religion of India. Historically Jainism and Buddhism too were very dominant. And the Buddhist centers of learning like Takshila and Nalanda were renowned for their variety and quality of education. And they were open to all castes.

  • Also even if Brahmins did prevent others from learning Sanskrit, still what about other languages? Praakrit, tamil etc had its own literature. Couldn’t people have studied and learnt from such languages?
  • Also nobody came and handed over such traditional learning to the populace and that Brahmins prevented others from learning. The Brahmins developed such literature and learning by themselves. So why didn’t others develop such stuff themselves the way Brahmins had?
  • Primarily because in the ages yore, education had no economic potential. You could not do your graduation or some such educational course like today and then go and get a job. Because there was no such concept.
  • Traditional industry with economic potential always had its own way of training people in it – jewelers training other jewelers, masons training other masons, accountants training other accountants etc - often heridetary. Brahmins mainly learnt scriptures etc which had little or no economic potential and often paid for it by living a life of poverty (which is an integral part of their worldview).
  • And most of the literature in Sanskrit is primarily religious and philosophical. Not industrial.
  • The modern concept of industries and institutes catering to such industries primarily rose only after the industrial revolution. And in India such a concept and its related practice took shape with the arrival of the British.
  • So it is only in the last 100 years or so that industrial houses and colleges and schools catering to such industries have cropped up.
  • The British in their efforts to destablise traditional culture cut off the traditional grants (devasthaanams etc) to Brahmins. So the Brahmins having no other livelihood took to secular professions. Here their traditional learning and scholasticism aided them. The British recognized their intellectual acumen and also their integrity. So many Brahmins were successful and prospered in secular professions during the british rule.
  • Post independence, in an already impoverished society the non-literate classes suddenly found themselves disadvantaged in comparison to the Brahmins. So envy and greed resulted in claims like “brahmins suppressed us and prevented us from education” cropped up. In a democracy, numbers are the true power. So it was convenient for the masses to blame the Brahmins, discriminate against them and get away with it.
But such arguments as above lack historical validity and logical consistency. It is merely a case of “repeat a lie a hundred times and it will become the truth”.

Even today how many would go for formal education if it didn’t enjoy the economic benefits? How many would be interested in learning for itself?

So how did such misrepresentation happen?

The colonialists started it with the motive of cultural subversion. The Brahmins were the preservers and propogators of dharma – while the masses practiced it, it was mainly the Brahmins who understood the underlying meaning. So with their learning and fervour for the dharma they were its backbone. So for the colonialists and the troika of M’s (mullah, missionary and marxist) who followed them, they presented the number one block against cultural subversion. So anti-brahmin dialectic worked in various forms – the false aarya invasion theory, alleged suppression etc.

I remember our current finance minister M.Chidambaram once writing in the India today about “Brahmin ruled kingdoms”. Out of the total number of kingdoms in the history of India how many were actually “ruled by the Brahmins”? Other than exceptions here and there, such a concept is totally false. Brahmins were priests not rulers. If anything Chidambaram's family ruled a part of TamilNadu historically and he has always had a priveleged life - from studying in Harvard and being a politician with the Congress - in contrast to the great majority of impoverished brahmins many of whom live below the poverty line even today.

But such false propoganda works in India given the prevalance of anti-dharmic activities and the need of the masses to join the industrialized society. Our political class with the twin motive of divide and rule and dharmic subversion (in cahoots with the three Ms) have gleefully embraced this. It helps them in justifying their caste vote bank politics. The sense of right is a strong instinct in man – even the suicide bomber justifies his carnage by claiming that he’s fighting against something wrong done to him or his community. Likewise in India the non-literate masses need a reason and justification for anti-brahmin discrimination and so …

Modern brahmins having abandoned their traditional way of life and being cut off from their traditions, suffer from an unjustified guilt complex and have swallowed this supression propoganda uncritically. Caught between the greed of the masses, the unscrupulousness of the politicians and the malice of the three Ms, they are persecuted mercilessly in modern India.

The most powerful of the dharma shaastra is the Manusmriti. But Manu was not a Brahmin – he was a king – a kshatriya. Likewise Krishna who teaches the Gita. Historically the society forced the Brahmins to embrace poverty and live a life of dharma just for the prestige of being the highest varna. But why should Brahmins live such a life? Are brahmins not humans? Don't brahmins desire comforts and luxury and wealth for themselves and their near and dear ones, the way all people do? Do they not have the intelligence to get what they want? And post independence, the minute they were able to do something about it the whole society turns and gangs up on them to prevent them from getting what they deserve claiming that brahmins supressed them in the past - as if as miniscule and non-violent a community as the brahmins could have kept these horrors away from wealth and power or anything leading to it.

Brahmins at worst have shunned others in the name of ritual purity, have looked down on lower castes or have restricted access to the scriptures - but this doesn't necessarily translate as supression of other castes. There's little doubt that brahmins historically were able to retain their top varna only because they abandoned wealth and power and took their stand under the shade of dharma - else the other castes would have cut their feet under them. So if anything it is the Hindu society which has suppressed the Brahmins historically and not vice versa.

And this is especially true in modern India which claims to be a democracy where all citizens are supposed to have "rights".

Those who historically murdered and raped and pillaged and destroyed are today forgiven in modern India in the name of forgetting the past. But brahmins who historically more than any single section of the society gave their lives for the sake of dharma and the welfare of the society, are persecuted in modern India for their alleged sins of the past.

And the red rag the (anti)Hindu which protests and clamours for the rights of minorities etc is strangely silent regarding the anti-brahmin discrimination in its home state.

Only goes to prove that in modern India there's neither brahmin nor shudra - just the rich and poor, the powerful and the weak, the oppressors and the oppressed.
 
Questions comes to what makes a person brahmin. Brahmin is made by his conducted not by studies or wealth or power [ ravana is born brahmin and still called rakshasha ].

Before we start putting blames on britishers, do we not practice untouchability. I can recollect that the shrudhras were not allowed in the brahmin streets in tamil nadu.

Funny part is that out 12 alwars not more than 5 will brahmins. Those people rose to the level where their scriptures are studied by brahmins and they are part of the pooja along with the principle deity.

It has been missing somewhere. Some where we have lost in touch with vedic scriptures, mantras and assimilation of the mantras to the thoughts to have the power which are supposed to be bestowed by those mantras.

But what is being lied by the politicans, is that the brahmins are no more a power to reckon with in the politics or any sphere of socio economic activity in tamil nadu. Most of the brahmins have moved to other states to find their own nest for survival as it was correct on their part not to fight with 95% morons who have been brainwashed. the crowds has more head but no brains some where i read.

What i feel brahmins must do is not discriminate and be cohesive among themself like web of spider to protect, help and grow among themself.
 
Hey Brahmastra:
A beautifully written piece, man! You know, it is too bad that we are the only ones talking among ourselves - it would be nice if the general public come to know the facts.
 
Must read article:
http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/jun/15franc.htm

To the question who is brahmin: The upanishad 'Vajrasuchika' which is in Krishna Yarjur Veda explains vividly. 'Vajra - Diamond', 'Suchi - Needle'. Perfect upanishad every brahmin should read and understand. If you dont have access to this upanishad, let me know i will provide a good translated version.
 
Dear Brahmastra,

While I agree with your analysis, the opposite camp has statistical data to prove that brahmins have suppressed them. Its only that the data is interpreted in a wrong way.

Say for example if someone say, 99% of the professors in IIT are brahmins, masses conclude that, only brahmins occupy that post. It can be interpreted the following was:
1. Anyone who is a brahmin has more chances of teaching in IIT.
2. Anyone who reaches a certain level of intellect can teach in IIT, and it so happens, brhmins have worked hard and reached that level.

Masses dont go by the second option. Please remember emotions are much powerful than reason. And our political leaders can play with emotions easily.
They can/have created a maya that brahmins are very rich, they have cornered all the opportunities, and people like conditioned monkeys dancing to a tune, just by looking at the symbols of brahminism , get a deep hatred.
And it takes a lot of time to come out of that conditioning.

With regards,
Jai
 
This question is for Sri Venkatraman:

Was Ravanan a Brahmin? I thought he was a King (Kshatriya) just like Lord Rama.

Thank you.
 
Dear SilverFox

From what i know: In olden days, both Brahmana and Kshatriya were the rulers. Both the race ruled.

King Visravasmuni is the elder son of 'Maharishi Pulasthi'.
Maharishi Pulasthi - should be a brahmin.

King Visravasmuni first married to Princes Illavila, the beautiful daughter of a Brahmin - hermit called Bharadwaja Magina gave birth to King Kuwera. Hence Kuwera is perfectly from a brahmin father and mother.

Later King Visravasmuni married Kesini, the beautiful daughter of Sumalin King of Asura so, king Visravasmuni had a group of children by his second marriage with Kesini. They were Rawana, Vibhishana, Kumbakarana Hema and Suparikha.

As Rawana born for a Brahmana Father he can be considered as Brahmana.
though King Rawana born to a Brahmin Father he had to grow with Asura vaasana! :)

Will try to give more details later...

RV
 
correction: "As Rawana born for a Brahmana Father he can be considered as Brahmana." - "As Rawana born to a Brahmana Father he can be considered as Brahmana." :)

RV
 
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07-13-2006, 05:26 PM



This question is for Sri Venkatraman:

Was Ravanan a Brahmin? I thought he was a King (Kshatriya) just like Lord Rama.

Thank you.



SILVERFOX
do u know ?ravana was sama vedhi!
 
Myth of Brahmin suppression

Thanks to Brahmastra for a well-rounded analysis.

The question is what should we do to overcome the currently inclement conditions preventing the betterment of our community.

"Changing the public 's mindset" is an extremely difficult task.Our efforts in that direction are probably a total waste.

Let's think of helping ourselves - pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, so to speak.

I don't mean to lecture - but I will keep prodding, pleading, cajoling and coaxing the members on this board in that direction. ( Thanks Silverfox! ):wave:
 
Hello Ammanji

Yes, Ravana was a brahmin. If you read the above thread you will know that, i have already explained about this point.

Regards
Venkat
 
It is one thing to claim that current FC's/BC's/MBC's are in no way conncected with atrocities perpetuated on sudhras in the past. I support such a statement.

But to claim that sudhras were given equal rights and were not suppressed at all in the past is untrue.

bhramasthra said:
The biggest myth is that lower classes were prevented from education – verses from smrithis like the manu are provided in support of this argument. But it is to be noted that only the Vedas or the shruti were exclusive for dvijas. Other texts like the smrithis, the puraanaas, the ithihaasaas and all other sundry literature were open to the wide public.

In the past sudhras were refused education based upon their caste. Karna was refused to be taught by drona and parasurama because he was a sudhras son.Similiar was the case with ekalaiva.In the past sudhras were only taught job related skills.Somebody who cleans street will not be educated beyond how to clean streets.Devadasis were only taught how to dance and seduce people and were taught nothing beyond that.

Sudhras were given only vocational, job related training.Since their job related education meant very little, for centuries they did not progress and remained as slaves.
 
Sudhras were considered as untouchables.Who will educate them?Even after education he still has to do menial jobs.So why bother to get education at all?

I totally hate this caste based education system in the past.This literally choked off the lower castes.

I am not blaming any particular castes.I am angry at entire FC/MBC/Bc communities of the past.I am not blaming the current generation.

What's done is done.None of us are responsible.But atleast in present let us not repeat the mistakes of past.That's all.
 
Correction

Parashurama had an abiding hatred for Kshyatrias. Karna posed as a Brahmin and got accepted by Parashurama for astra shatra. When Parashurama was sleeping with his head on Karna's lap and a beetle bit Karna, blood oozed from Karna and flowed down to touch Parashurama's face. In order not to wake up his teacher, Karna did not flinch. But when the sage felt the warm moist blood on his cheek and checked to see what was going on, he discovered it was blood. Parasuram knew that if Karna was a true Brahmin he would have screamed "Ouch!". So he inferred that Karna could only have Kshatriya blood in him.

SV




goundamani said:
It is one thing to claim that current FC's/BC's/MBC's are in no way conncected with atrocities perpetuated on sudhras in the past. I support such a statement.

But to claim that sudhras were given equal rights and were not suppressed at all in the past is untrue.



In the past sudhras were refused education based upon their caste. Karna was refused to be taught by drona and parasurama because he was a sudhras son.Similiar was the case with ekalaiva.In the past sudhras were only taught job related skills.Somebody who cleans street will not be educated beyond how to clean streets.Devadasis were only taught how to dance and seduce people and were taught nothing beyond that.

Sudhras were given only vocational, job related training.Since their job related education meant very little, for centuries they did not progress and remained as slaves.
 
Past, Present & future

Hi,

These are mythological stories which are being debated among the hindu community as such.

But under that guise i donot want to tell that there had not been any wrong treatment for shudras. But the question is like this, if my father is thief, in this democracy would you catagories me as a thief ? If yes, all forward community current generation shall be responsible for their forefathers act. But the tragedy and commedy of the story is that the all other than brahmins [ vaishas & khastriyas ] as become back ward.

This is a country consisting of spineless people who take pride in calling themself as backward and would like to enjoy benefits on other people's work. I hope all these people do home work for offspring rather than expecting it from others.
 
I agree entirely

This is specially addressed to Goundamani,

I think for majority communities to seek reservation happens only in India. In rest of the countries the majorities protect the interest of the minorities because the latter do not have political power. In India, the majority seek reservation rather than protect interests of the minorities like Brahmins who do not have and have never had any political power based on their numbers. To have poilitical power plus reservation is a double advantage that majority communities seek.

To a great extent the so called past injustices that the so called backward communities claim they have been subjected to have already been redressed because they now possess political power and are using it left right and center to provide economic advantages to their kith and kin. Is it not time for them to level the playing field and offer some protection to the minorities as well since they have neither political power nor reservations of any kind?

Remember it is the so called forwrd communities which contributed to the so called backward communities getting them power in the first place. Do they remember Gandhi, Nehru, Rajagoplachari, Ranade, Gokhale, Tilak etc ? Did their leadership not seek good for the entire country INCLUDING THE BACKWARD CLASSES rather than only their kith and kin? Will our friend Karununidhi be ever try to be a leader in their mold? Where were the Karunanidhi look alikes during the freedom struggle? Can I have some names please?

The so called backward communities seem to only remember the injustices to them but what about those in the forward communities who championed their cause? Is it not time to say enough is enough. We are all human beings. Let us start thinking of justice to everyone. Coming to power does not mean that it should be used only to get preferential treatment to only your kith and kin or those who keep you in power. Coming to power means that you are now the caretaker of the interests of EVERYONE who comes under your leadership.

The state of being backward is only in your mind. Once you start acting with the generosity and leadership qualities of the forward communities, the inferiority complex you have will be gone. The democratic institutions that were put in place to give you power was an opportunity for you to act and feel like a forward community as well. Why do you insist on continuing to calling yourself backward and perpetuating your feeling of inferiority? Since you have legally labeled yourself backward, how would you like to be called Mr. or Mrs. Backward by anyone - while addressing you? Throughout the world, people like to be called smart and bright - only in India are people falling over themselves in called backward and inferior.

Indian people are one of the most intellectually gifted people in the world. In the past our culture spread all around the world withput raising a single sword. Today our intellectual contributions of our people are making a mark on the economies of almost all the countries of the world. Under these conditions, why would anyone of us like to call ourselves backward and inferior. Is it not a stigma that none of us would like to attach to our future generations?

Will you not ever strive to achieve success in life by merit alone rather than using poilitical power to achieve your ends? Achieving things by political power is NOT equivalent to truly deseved merit and will never be. It is a fact that you ARE as intellectually gifted as the so called forward castes. Dravidian literacy far exceeds the literacy in the North of India. Dont call yourself inferior. Show the generosity of someone who IS gifted.

SV
 
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who cares

Who bothers about the forward community people who fought for the rights of back ward class. The current person in power trires to show that he had done everything. It is the height of shamelessness that prevails where it is nothing but mukastuti and leader wants it and people who give it raise.

The second problem is populaiton. Whatever growth happens it is eaten by the growing population. Unless that is curtailed there will be no growth in real sense. if you look at brahmin it must have come down or it must be the same. Today no bramin has more than one or two children even if they can afford

In one word of vivekanada, world will take care of itself and you take care of yourself. brahmin now must not bother about the world rather bother about themself to protect and grow.

since there is no khaystri nor vaisya to support the brhamins among brahmins people have to form the four classes to earn, serve and protect the culture. Unfornately even among the brahmin WHERE IS THE RESPECT FOR PUNDITS. HOW MANY WOULD SEND THE CHILD FOR LEARNING VEDAS FULL TIME. LET US DO SOME SOUL SEARCHING
 
reply prpsarathy

prp,

This is why I emphasized earlier that our future lies in creating an economic base for ourselves. We have to learn to be businessmen - more than ever. Once you have economic independence, our future generations will have all the time for Vedas and the Shastras. Swayamseva comes before everything. You are absolutely right. The first step is to take care of yourself and then the world will take care of itself. This is the cornerstone of capitalism. You simply cannot depend upon the goodness of others.

Once we depend on politics and jobs all that is happening will haunt us. I realized this long ago and 1-2 years after graduation, I said goodbye to the world of employment after realizing its risks and have been independent for 24 years. We can all do it. Like the TVS group or TTK group or the Bakery Iyengars or Infosys - we have what it takes. It will take atleast 4-5 years of struggle to learn how to stay afloat as a businessman and another 4-5 to learn how to prosper. No age is too early to get started.

SV
 
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micro financing

Hi,

Within our community wherever people are enterprising and they are looking out for funds to expand, i want to form a small community who can fund them and make them successful and distribute wealth. So encourage our community people who are in look out for an assistance to come to this site for discussion.

Regards, sarathy
 
That's the way

Hi Prp,

I kept hearing the words "someone should" from our people too long. This should change to "I will" and things will start changing for the better already. Again, be sure that there will be times of difficulty and stress. But never give up, There is no alternative. God helps those who help themselves.

Prp, you make a start and keep me informed on your progress. I will rally the support of people in SV who will make contributions to your fund. But I want to see successful businessment on the board so the funds are properly utilized and the businessmen get proper advice when needed. I want to see people who are independent businessmen and NOT executives in corporations or government officials or inactive investors. Only people who have started their own businesses and succeeded will be really useful.

Typically thise who receive help should be people who have already taken the plunge and have persisted long enough to show some success.

SV
.
 
Double Standards Against Brahmins

Questions comes to what makes a person brahmin. Brahmin is made by his conducted not by studies or wealth or power [ ravana is born brahmin and still called rakshasha ].

Before we start putting blames on britishers, do we not practice untouchability. I can recollect that the shrudhras were not allowed in the brahmin streets in tamil nadu.

.


To answer your question about untouchability. Many ancient preisthoods throughout the world have practiced it. It was believed that spiritual energy get's built up in the body through tapas from generation and individual tapas which builds a magnetism. That spiritual magnetism gets depleated when the individual is around other individuals whith lower thought forms (thoughts of sex and violence and meat butchery etc.) so to keep the spiritual power strong in the priesthood, they kept all kinds of people away from them so they could have the power to do affective ritual and help people.

Native American shamans practiced untouchability. Jewish rabbis practice untouchability. Catholic monastaries practice untouchability. Hasidic jews have entire blocks within modern western cities in countries like the US and the UK where they practice kosher untouchability with the sanction of the entire world. Try entering a hasidic neighborhood especially during most days of the year and police will arrest you!

Also, anyone can be a brahmin by merit. But there are only a few bloodlines - the gotras that each one of us decsends from. When BLOODLINE is all the rage in Christianity nowadays with DaVinci Code and when the Jews have strong identity with the bloodline of the tribes, why are we ashamed of our bloodlines? Spiritual power gets decsended from these bloodlines. This is acceptable in Christianity and Judaism and even some forms of Islam!

We need to understand what it is that we are being targeted for and whether criticsims are truly justified or not.
 
A thoughtful post by Shanti Brahm and I do agree with the logic of spiritual magnetism which is inherent in humans. People who have been with such company would agree that the magnetism of a person tends to affect the thoughts of another...

And I think it is a great suggestion by Silicon valley-an that brahmins must become entrepreneurs... I am also of the opinion that brahmins should become self-sufficient... how? That would depend on the individual... Moreover, to bring about a change, brahmins who start businesses have to emply brahmins which would be direct support to the community.

Let us ignore this myth of brahmin suppression (whether it is true or not) and march forward with the welfare of our community as the mantra.

Regards,
Seshadri
 
Thus I heard from a Swamiji....

"Even, if our own hands touch parts below waist , one should bathe ....

So within one's own body untouchability is there....."
 
Thus I heard from a Swamiji....

"Even, if our own hands touch parts below waist , one should bathe ....

So within one's own body untouchability is there....."


Kundalini springs forth from the Mooladhara... which is below the waist... that does not make it repulsive or untouchable...

So, it is the intent which defines a person's character and makes him/her untouchable (physically or mentally)
 
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