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Most Intelligent Woman in the Ancient World

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A community’s development can be easily measured by the level of women’s education or status. If we take all the ancient cultures into account, India has a unique place in the world. Lot of countries gave women-- education, freedom, right to inherit property, right to attend religious ceremonies and a status ---several centuries after ‘India that is Bharat’ gave them.


Vedas and Sangam Tamil literature have the highest number of women poets (poetesses) in the world. It is amazing to see they were able to compose poems and attend assemblies. Gargi Vachaknavi was the only example one can quote for women’s education and freedom from the most ancient days. She was invited to attend an assembly of scholars to discuss philosophical matters. King Janaka of Videha convened the conference. It happened at least 3000 years ago. Even the foreign scholars, who always underestimate and underrate anything Indian, gave the date 800 BC for the Brihad Aranyaka Upanishad, where Gargi appears for the first time. Gargi, a great philosopher, not only attended the conference, but also challenged the most revered philosopher of the day, Yajnavalkya.


Thousand years later, the grand old dame of Sangam Tamil literature Avvaiyar appeared on the scene. She was able to attend the great assembly of the three most powerful kings of the Tamil speaking world-- Chera, Choza and Pandya. The occasion was the great Rajasuya Yajnam done by Choza king Peru Nar Killi. She praised them for their unity and wished them long life. She was able to enter any palace without a permit or visit any country without a visa. Poets and ascetics had more rights than the diplomats of the modern world. They can challenge the kings in the assemblies and question their misbehaviour.


We have over 25 Vedic poetesses and over 25 Tamil Sangam poetesses. No culture in the world had so many poetesses 2000 years ago. It was a world dominated by men. Law giver Manu said that a community will be destroyed if women are not respected.


Indian women were so intelligent that they can easily solve knotty problems. A boy wanted to study Vedas. But he knew only his mother Jabala. When he went to the teacher he asked what was his Kulam, Gotra (clan and sub sects), names of parents etc. He replied truthfully that his mum asked him to give the mother’s name only as Jabala. The teacher was so impressed by his honesty, he took him immediately as his student. He gave the boy a new name-- Satyakama (one who seeks truth) Jabala.


Vedic and Sangam Tamil period women did not sing only about Gods and Kings. They sang about everything in the world. Women like Draupadi and Kannaki challenged the most powerful kings of the day. They vowed to destroy injustice and they did it. Women like Damayanti and Savitri fought for their husbands and won the cases. Sita and Mandodari, wives of rivals, were praised for their chastity. They will inspire women for generations to come.
In Vedic days, women were teachers as well. Panini, the first and foremost grammarian in the world, explains the distinction between acaryaa and acaryani, upadhyayaa and updhyayini.

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Manu, author of the great law book Manava Dharma Shastra, says,

‘’women must be honoured and adorned by their fathers, brothers, husbands and bothers-in-law, who desire their own welfare. Manu 3-55
‘’Where women are honoured, there the gods are pleased; but where they are not honoured, no sacred rite yields rewards. Manu 3-56
Where the female relations live in grief, the family soon wholly perishes; but that family where they are not unhappy ever prospers. 3—57
The houses, on which the female relations, not being duly honoured, pronounce a curse, perish completely, as if destroyed by magic’’ Manu 3-58
Hence men, who seek their own welfare, should always honour women on holidays and festivals with gifts of ornaments, clothes and dainty food. 3-59

Sanskrit and Tamil literature even entered the magic or the superstitious world to show that chaste women can do miracles. They can bring fire and rain by their power. But women never abused their powers. Sita says to Hanuman, the first International ambassador, that she can burn the 14 worlds with her power, but she wanted her husband to take the credit of finishing the demon king Ravana of Sri Lanka.


Great poet Valluvar went one step further and says that any chaste woman has the power to make rain at her bidding (Kural 55)


Seeing Arundhati Star
Arundhati: Wife of great ascetic Vashista. Symbol of faithfulness, symbol of Indian womanhood and astral goddess in the Saptarishi Mandalam (Great Bear Constellation in the Northern Sky). Every Hindu must see the star on the First Night in the sky. She was the most praised woman on earth. 5000 year old Vedas and 2000 year old Sangam Tamil literature praised her sky high.


Manu says
‘’Akshamala, a woman of the lowest birth, being united to Vashista and Sarangi (being united) to Mandapala became worthy of honour’’(4-23).Akshamala=Arundhati.

Sangam Tamil literature refers to Arundhati in several places: Ainkuru.442; Puram.122; Kali.2-21;pari 5-44, madu.610.
In the later days we have great women poetesses like Karaikal Ammaiyar,
Andal, Gangadevi , Mirabhai and Lalleswari.

Two thousand years ago Hindus believed in the same values from Kashmir to Kandy in Sri Lanka. This is another blow to the racists who advocated Aryan Dravidian Race Theory.

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Here are the Lists of Vedic and Sangam Tamil Poetesses:

Aditi, Apala, Dakshina, Gosha, Indrani ,Juhu, Kadru, Lopamudra, Ratri, Romasa, Sasi, Sashvati, Sikandini kashyapi, Sraddha, Sarama, Sikta, Sudevi, Surya, Sarasvati, Ushas, Urvasi,Visvara, Visvruha, Vispala, Vakambhirini, Vachukra’s wife, Vac, Yami


From Sama Veda – Nodha, Agnishta basha, Sikatani vavari, Ganpayana,
Later day great women—
Gargi vachaknavi, Maitreyi, Nalayini, Savitri, Kaikeyi, Sita, Mandodari, Ahalya, Arundhati, Kunti, Draupadi. (Kaikeyi was a great driver. She rode the chariot when Dasaratha went to war with the demons and defeated them)


Tamil Poetesses

(Like Rig Vedic compiler Vyasa, Tamils also followed Vyasa’s technique of naming anonymous poets with abstract expressions. So we don’t know for sure how many poetesses were there in Vedic period or later. But poetesses were there, which is confirmed by later day mythologies. Slight change of spellings or some suffixes to names made enthusiasts to count more number of poetesses!! One surprising thing about Sangam Tamil names is most of them have prefixes like Sanskrit names Su=Nal. Lot of poetess’s names have this Nap or Nal prefix.


This shows ancient Indians followed the same method in naming. I have already written about the Sanskrit names among Sangam Tamil poets such as Valmiki, Damodaran, Markandeyan, Kamakshi, Kesavan, Mahadevan, Nagarajan,Paliyathan,Vishnu dasan, Kannadasan etc.

1.Avvaiyaar 2.Aadimanthiyaar 3.Anjil anjiyaar 4.Uunpiththai
5.Kaamakkanipsalaiyaar 6.Kaavarpendu 7.Kuramakal kuriyeyini
8.Maarpiththiyaar 9.Maasaaththiyaar 10.Nachchellaiyaar 11.Nakkannaiyaar
12.Nedumpalliyathai 13.Nalvellaiyaar 14.Nalveliyaar 15.Nanmullaiyaar 16.Nappasalaiyaar 17.Naagaiyaar 18.Paari makalir 19.Perungkoppendu
20.Peymakal ilaveyini 21.Ponmaniyaar 22.Ponmudiyaar 23.Puunkan uththiraiyaar 24.Pullaankanniyaar 25.Vennik kuyaththiyaar 26.Velli viithiyaar
27.Venpuuthiyaar 28.Kakkaipaadiniyaar.


Pictures are taken from World Tamil Souvenire;thanks.
 
My answers in blue.

‘’women must be honoured and adorned by their fathers, brothers, husbands and bothers-in-law, who desire their own welfare. Manu 3-55


What a wonderful way of sugar coating words..if we read in between lines..it just makes it sound that a woman is fully dependent on a male at every stage and for the rest of her life! No freedom! each time a decision is made for her by some male.
Glorification is always a subtle form is subjugation!LOL

Great poet Valluvar went one step further and says that any chaste woman has the power to make rain at her bidding (Kural 55)

Then how come we still have drought?

When a country faces drought then why don't all self proclaimed Patinis get together and make the rain fall at their bidding??
I guess no guy dare ask his wife to wish for rain cos in case rain does not come he might not want to know why.

Ignorance is always bliss!LOL
 
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Hi Renuka

Thanks for your comments.

In the first place, my general comment:

I have always wondered whether all the rules or laws were practically implemented. Probably the law books acted as deterrents or that was the maximum punishment prescribed for any offence. I have lots of anecdotes to prove that the law was NOT enforced literally.

Now to the issues raised by you,

First of all, we are reading about the beliefs in a society that existed at least 2000 years ago. You have to compare it with other communities of that time and evaluate. Human thoughts developed according to its age and needs. Manu clearly says his laws were applicable to Aryavarta, ie, beyond Vindhyas, the area between two rivers of North India. So practically we, Tamils, should not bother. But our inscriptions and epigraphs say Chera Choza and Pandyas ruled according to Manu Neethi. Probably that was the best available, they thought. Even Brahmins in those days knew 20 to 25 other Smritis were there in addition to Manu. They made Manu the basis. Sringeri Shankaracharya ,in one of his lectures, say they were not contradictory, but complimentary to one another.

If you go to the meaning behind those words, one must protect the women and honour. I deliberately left one more sloka of Manu, which was oft quoted by foreigners, which says women are not independent. I dropped it because the overall meaning is women must be protected, foreign scholars misled the world by giving that one sloka only.

When foreigners like Yavans, Huns and Sakas invaded India, Manu wrote it (if we accept the date given to Manu by many scholars).So you have to take that into consideration. Original manu existed during Rig Vedic days or before that.We have lots of references to Manu in RV.

Above all, in the very first chapter, Manu says Law book is not static or final. It changes according to Kala, Desa, Vardhaman. We see it in America even today. Every state has different rules.

If you take abortion and Gay marriage it changes in different parts of the world. What I mean is laws will always be different to different communities in different parts of the world living at different times. You cant blame one was injustice and another was justice. (By the way Tamil Sangam book Kalitokai also says women dont belong to the place she was born like sandal etc. I will write an article separately)

Going to back to Valluvan,
Again it was the maximum a woman could do like Kannaki. But Sita avoided that extreme step of burning all the 14 worlds, just to give credit to Rama (See my Kamba Ramayana reference). If any one is pure by Mano, Vak, Kaya (Thought,Word and Deed), that person can do miracles.This is what Valluvan meant. If you read Tirukkural he says one will be deemed God in at least four places. One will be worshiped by everyone in at least three places. What he meant is you will be a person with divine qualities.

In short, look at the spirit behind those words, dont take them literally.
 
(By the way Tamil Sangam book Kalitokai also says women dont belong to the place she was born like sandal etc. I will write an article separately)

Dear Sir,

Frankly speaking..does anyone male or female belong to the place they were born??

What is the place they were born??

Is it only a geographical location??

As far as I know a human being just shifts from these 2 locations in cyclical repetitive manner from life to life....

1)Uterine Cavity

2)Cremation grounds


So actually it is funny to read that the Indian males of the past thought that a woman does not belong to the place she is born in when he himself is never a permanent resident anywhere.

This only goes to show that males of the past though that a woman is a movable property and nothing more.
 

திருக்குறள் என்பதால் தமிழில்............

எங்கள் பள்ளித் தமிழ் ஆசிரியர் அமுதன் வேடிக்கையாக ஒரு விளக்கம் சொல்லுவார்!

தெய்வம் தொழாள் - தெய்வத்தைத் தொழ மாட்டாள்;

கொழுநன் தொழுதெழுவாள் - கணவன் தொழுது எழுவாள்; ஆதாவது, கணவன் காப்பிக் கோப்பையுடன்

வணங்கிய பின் எழுவாள்;


பெய்யெனப் பெய்யும் மழை - அவள் 'பெய்' என்று சொன்னதும், மழை பயந்து கொண்டு பெய்துவிடும்!!


இன்னொரு விளக்கம் என்னவெனில்,

'தெய்வத்தைத் தொழாமல், கணவனையே தெய்வமாக மதித்துப் போற்றுபவள், 'பெய்' என்று கேட்டவுடன்

பெய்யும் மழையைப் போல மகிழ்ச்சி தருபவள் ஆவாள்! :)
 
Dear Rajiram

My Tamil teacher told me that it is grammatically possible to interpret the way you have given in your reply.

Dear Renuka

Please Time travel back to 2000 years. You will be happy. You have to place yourself in 1st century BC. If anyone argues with you saying that it is right even for today, then you can argue against it. But now we Indians follow a constitution written by eminent jurists under Dr Ambedkar, the great Harijan leader.
 
Looks like women of Egypt were much more powerful & intelligent, of that times.

they were equal before men, owned properties, financially independent, remarriage for widows, freedom to divorce, presided as Judges, knew the knowledge about spermicides, crowned as Pharaohs, there existed a large number of goddesses too.

Women in Ancient Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

not to forget, the inter-continental dating of Cleopatra !!

 
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But now we Indians follow a constitution written by eminent jurists under Dr Ambedkar, the great Harijan leader.

I always notice that Dr Ambedkars caste is always mentioned as the great Harijan leader.

BTW I feel the word Harijan is not too correct too cos why is only a certain caste called Harijan when technically every human being is a child of Hari?

Ok back to what I want to convey..Why don't we call Dr Ambedkar the Father of Indian Constitution without the need to mention his caste.

When we talk about Mahatma Gandhi no one mentions his caste..everyone sees him as Father of The Nation(India) without the caste tag.

So same way... lets just call Dr Ambedkar the Father of Indian Constitution sans the caste tag.
 
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I always notice that Dr Ambedkars caste is always mentioned as the great Harijan leader.

BTW I feel the word Harijan is not too correct too cos why is only a certain caste called Harijan when technically every human being is a child of Hari? ....
Babasaheb Ambedkar himself rejected this epithet calling it for what it is, condescending. Even SC/ST which is nothing but a list has taken on a socially demeaning meaning. Dalit is the terminology that is respectful for two reasons, (i) it recognizes the historical oppression these groups were made to suffer and (ii) these groups have rejected the Harijan tag and embraced Dalit, therefore it is disrespectful to keep using the Harijan.

thanks ....
 
post #9:

Babasaheb Ambedkar himself rejected this epithet calling it for what it is, condescending. Even SC/ST which is nothing but a list has taken on a socially demeaning meaning. Dalit is the terminology that is respectful for two reasons, (i) it recognizes the historical oppression these groups were made to suffer and (ii) these groups have rejected the Harijan tag and embraced Dalit, therefore it is disrespectful to keep using the Harijan.

Harijan was a word used by Gandhi who was a simpleton. He could not think in a complicated way. He thought the evil of untouchability will take a beating if the people were called harijan. That good intention was lost in the world of politics. SC/ST is nothing but a list and would have stuck but for the OBC/MBC lumpen who saw to it that they were not included in the same schedule. They did not want to keep company with the panchamans even in the list of a schedule to the Constitution of India. Even the idea was not liked by them. So SC/ST list became just a panchaman list. Dalit is a word which has victimhood connotations and a seething rancour and bitterness. It suits politicians to keep the embers of bitterness alive for ever. So dalit is the chosen word for politicians with all its advantages(not to the panchamans but to the politicians). Ambedkar proved that he too was just a politician. For our intellectuals whatever is there existing is all bad and has to be completely demolished so that something equally or more obnoxious may be placed there. That is what has happened with the word dalit too.
 
Renuka

I dont agree with the epithets Father of India= Mahatma Gandhi, Father of Indian Constitution=BR Ambedkar. Both are wrong. They were all pebbles in the mighty ocean of Indian History. They never called themselves with those titles.They were great but humble.

In my dictionary, Harijan is not a derogatory word. Gods Children=Harijan became derogatory in course of time like Pariah. Even Tiruvalluvar is also called a Pariah by profession by some scholars.

Apart from it, people always miss the main points in the thread and hijack the thread by picking up one or two words. If they mentioned such things as a passing remark with their other comments, that is fine.

What I mean by Harijan, is though born in a lower caste he was able to progress to the highest post and gain respect from every one.
 
Dear VKC

I posted an article a year ago under the title Dravidian Queen 1320 BC in Tamil and English. It is based on one scholar's interpretation. If it is correct we have also had powerful queens. Megasthanes of 3rd century mentioned about Pandya queen (Meenakshi).

It is always good to compare Egyptian women and ancient Indian women. Nothing wrong in it.If you google you will get a few Grek poetesses names as well.

But I mentioned in my post:
There was nothing like Swayamvaram in any part of the world
No other part of the world had a galaxy of women poets (poetesses) 25+25 at least 50 from tamil and sanskrit.

There was no woman philosopher equal to Gargi Vachaknavi in the eighth century BC or before that.

But if you still think Egyptian women were greater than Indian women, you are entitled to your views.
 
Renuka

I dont agree with the epithets Father of India= Mahatma Gandhi, Father of Indian Constitution=BR Ambedkar. Both are wrong. They were all pebbles in the mighty ocean of Indian History. They never called themselves with those titles.They were great but humble.

In my dictionary, Harijan is not a derogatory word. Gods Children=Harijan became derogatory in course of time like Pariah. Even Tiruvalluvar is also called a Pariah by profession by some scholars.

Apart from it, people always miss the main points in the thread and hijack the thread by picking up one or two words. If they mentioned such things as a passing remark with their other comments, that is fine.

What I mean by Harijan, is though born in a lower caste he was able to progress to the highest post and gain respect from every one.
I commented only because the discussion turned to the term Harijan. The point here is not whether Harijan is a derogatory word, or what you think it means. If we allow ourselves not to be self-centered for a few moments, we can see that when you want to bestow a title upon a group of people taking their views into account is a good thing and not insist that they must accept the title you have chosen for them. Just think if a Christian tells you you are a sinner, and gives an explanation why that is not such a bad thing quoting their God, how will you feel? You are no different from such Christians if you insist on using the term Harijan even though the target group does not want to be called that.

thank you...
 
Renuka

I dont agree with the epithets Father of India= Mahatma Gandhi, Father of Indian Constitution=BR Ambedkar. Both are wrong. They were all pebbles in the mighty ocean of Indian History. They never called themselves with those titles.They were great but humble.

In my dictionary, Harijan is not a derogatory word. Gods Children=Harijan .

Dear Sir,


Most men are just Fathers of their own children.

But in cases of great men...the world confers upon them a title as an appreciation of their greatness.

Now coming to the word Harijan...I myself do not think its derogatory(in fact I never mentioned that it has derogatory undertones in my post)..but I feel the term Harijan is sans logic.

Ok lets translate the word Harijan to Sanskrit proper.

Hari =Vishnu

Jan=People.

So according to Sambandharthka -Taddhitantah rule:

People of Vishnu would translate as Vaishnava.

Just like how according to the same rule of grammar People of Shiva would translate as Shaiva.

Now you tell me...is this terminology Harijan correct?

To call only a certain portion of the society as Vaishnava and the rest as not?

Even if we want to stick to the term People of God..that would still make it sans logic cos why should People of God be treated inhumanely and kept out of temples?

No logic right??

So I feel the term Dalit is very accurate cos it actually denotes the actual situation of the community.

Life is not a Madhurasthakam.

Harijan terminology makes everything sound Madhuram(Sweet).

Dalitam is NOT Madhuram.
 
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Thanks,Renuka.
I am going on holiday for three weeks from tomorrow.
I may not be able to see many of your posts.
Anyway I will keep myself updated as soon as I come back
 
This article only serves to show we (women) live in a man's world, whether in the past or the present. When a man is told to love and honour women it just shows that society DOES NOT respect its womenfolk or consider them equal to men.
Also, I found the illustrations a little inappropriate. Were these "intelligent" women of the past dressed so provocatively, and were they all so - umm- curvy? The pictures are decidedly sexist, just like the scantily-clad women used in car ads nowadays.
I am sorry if what I say offends anybody, but this is what I feel.
 

Not only the pictures depicting women of olden days, even the sculptures have such huge curves!

Women have been treated as property (as many point out) and may be the guys need to add glamour to the imaginary figures!

All the queens in the cinemas are shown with see-through dresses and a 'kachchai' as a top! Mod-women follow the trend! :)

Nikeesha%20Patel%20in%20red%20blouse.jpg
 
Also, I found the illustrations a little inappropriate. Were these "intelligent" women of the past dressed so provocatively, and were they all so - umm- curvy? The pictures are decidedly sexist, just like the scantily-clad women used in car ads nowadays.

Dear Padders ji,

Males need to drool..that is the only way females can rule!LOL
 
Hi Raji:
Absolutely! What struck me was the irony of the whole thing- the article was about "intelligent" women in the past, and how they were (supposedly) equal to men, but the pictures suggest something quite the opposite. (A male fantasy about the ideal female form). I have no problems with women wearing what they want, but somehow these pictures struck me as being incongruous with the article.
 
hi renu,

may be little change in ur words,,,,,,,,males need ????????????????........that is the way females can use the tool..LOL

Under tool options one can choose:

1)Create application short cuts..hence resorting to visual stimuli!

2)Task Manager..one has to manage the task well.

3)View source..under clear moonlight!

4)Report an issue..if one is not satisfied with the outcome.
 
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This article only serves to show we (women) live in a man's world, whether in the past or the present. When a man is told to love and honour women it just shows that society DOES NOT respect its womenfolk or consider them equal to men.
Also, I found the illustrations a little inappropriate. Were these "intelligent" women of the past dressed so provocatively, and were they all so - umm- curvy? The pictures are decidedly sexist, just like the scantily-clad women used in car ads nowadays.
I am sorry if what I say offends anybody, but this is what I feel.
Hi padders,

I have read an account (on google books) about the history of Sri Lanka according to which the females did not cover their upper body.

Please see this for another piece of info :Ibn Battuta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although determined to continue his journey to China, he first took a detour to visit the Maldive Islands. He spent nine months on the islands, much longer than he had intended. As a Chief Qadi, his skills were highly desirable in the formerly Buddhist nation that had recently converted to Islam. Half-kidnapped into staying, he became chief judge and married into the royal family of Omar I. He became embroiled in local politics and left when his strict judgments in the laissez-faire island kingdom began to chafe with its rulers. In the Rihla he mentions his dismay at the local women going about with no clothing above the waist, and the locals taking no notice when he complained.From the Maldives, he carried on to Sri Lanka and visited Sri Pada and Tenavaram temple.

I quite missed the point I wanted to make - Apparently covering much of the body parts came into vogue after the onset of the moghul/papal rule in India. So, our ancenstors must have been quite scantily clad, one would tend to think, with only the essentials covered.
 
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Thanks, auh. Perhaps I'm over-reacting? Yes, I also heard/read that women in the past did not wear any upper body covering, and it was only after the advent of the Mughals and the British that Victorian principles of modesty in dress came to our society.
I just thought the illustrations were a bit too"sexy" for the content of the article. And no criticism of Londonji, who as usual has given a very interesting piece. Although the artist covered up the upper bodies, he/she hasn't left out much to the imagination!
I wonder how men in ancient India dressed? And if an artist were to depict them, would he/she make them handsome Romeos or just normal-looking people.

On another note- Renuka, I love your descriptions of the Tool function! :))
 
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