Thread: Brahmin by Birth?

Sri.Kunjuppu,

"i do not know about you, but i have met people with tamil names from south africa, fiji, trinidad, jamaica, zimbabwe, guyana and mauritius. these people's [COLOR=#5ea0c3 !important][COLOR=#5ea0c3 !important]ancestors[/COLOR][/COLOR]

left over 100 years ago from india.

"...they were cut off from india. they do not know tamil. their names are also quaint from our viewpoint, because we do not name our chldren sarojini or pakkirisami any more."

Sir, my previous assertion was with respect to 'forgetting Tamil after learning it' only. Yes, even from the second generation, learning Tamil becomes a difficult task. But nowadays we have sources in the net, which may hopefully tilt the balance in Tamil favour. Of our children, our son (27 yrs) talks very little Tamil. He was born in India. Our daughter (17 yrs) can hold a conversation by relpying in English (She was born in Australia). But amoung them, they speak in English. As Kunjuppu rightly pointed out, the group which left India continue to live in the same year (kind of a time warp). I feel that too.

Cheers!

raghy,

of interst to note here, is that, the indian consulate in durban, south africa, i heard, has started tamil lessons finally. they had originally started hindi lessions, but were convinced by the local tamil community of tamil heritage, to start tamil classes too. yeah!

a very nice love story here. happened a few years ago. i had a lady middle aged bengali colleague. all of a sudden she quit her job of nearly 25 years. when asked her reason, she replied that she had asked for a 3 month leave of absence, which was refused.

the reason? to go to calcutta to arrange her canadian born brought up son's marriage. it appears, this english speaking only child, while on a vacation to calcutta, fell head over heals in love with a bengali girl, who told him that unless he learned to be fluent in bengali she would not deal with him.

sure enough, in six month, our romeo, learnt from the web, c.ds and from his mom, fluent speaking bengali, proposed to his lass, was accepted. 'what more pleasure could a mother want than this?' mused my colleague, as she cheerfully handed over her resignation letter.

I'm 1/4 Tamil 1/4 Malayali 1/4 English 1/4 Celt (mostly Irish with a bit of Scot), but I am also a 4th generation Karachiite. My Tamil speaking mother died when I was young and there was no way for me to keep up the language. My Ammachee (that's what I call her, I'm not sure if it's a Tamil term though) is the only one left who can read Tamil, all of the people from my mother's side can still speak and understand it fluently though. "Arul Pillai" is actually an ancestor's name and not mine, I have an English name.

AP

I'm 1/4 Tamil 1/4 Malayali 1/4 English 1/4 Celt (mostly Irish with a bit of Scot), but I am also a 4th generation Karachiite. My Tamil speaking mother died when I was young and there was no way for me to keep up the language. My Ammachee (that's what I call her, I'm not sure if it's a Tamil term though) is the only one left who can read Tamil, all of the people from my mother's side can still speak and understand it fluently though. "Arul Pillai" is actually an ancestor's name and not mine, I have an English name.

AP

ArilJi this is very interesting. I never knew there were tamil people in Pakistan (im assuming Karachiite as in Karachi Pakistan)

Originally Posted by ArulPillai

I'm 1/4 Tamil 1/4 Malayali 1/4 English 1/4 Celt (mostly Irish with a bit of Scot), but I am also a 4th generation Karachiite.

Dear brother Arul, whatever mix you may be, 1/4, or 1/2, your choice of moniker could not be more beautiful. Arul is the ultimate love, love for all life forms, just because, the unconditional love only a mother can have for her child. Here is what the greatest of great Thiruvalluvar says about Arul:

அருள் செல்வம் செல்வத்துள் செல்வம் பொருள்செல்வம்
பூரியர்கண்ணும் உள.

The greatest of treasures is Arul, other material wealth, even the wicked have.

One more,

அருள்சேர்ந்த நெஞ்சினார்க்கு இல்லை இருள்சேர்ந்த
இன்னா உலகம் புகல்.

Those with love for all (Arul) in their hearts, are free from the grief of this sinister world.

Dear friend, hope you continue to stay with us and be a part of our lives.

Cheers!

Originally Posted by Dr.S.Ramanathan

There are two questions raised by Sri Pillai in this thread.
In so far as the caste is concerned, I agree with most of the points given by RVR. But, because of the chromosome factor of the male which decides the sex of the child perhaps,it is the caste of the father that is generally followed.There are many such families where Upanayanam is done without any qualms.
In sofar as language is concerned, I agree with Ms.Amala that an ethnically threatened group clings to its culture,language and religion far more ferociously than others.In so far as TBs or Tamils in general is concerned,majority consider speaking in English gives them a status and , therefore speak less and less in Tamil, even among themselves. In this respect, we have to salute Bengalis and a few similar linguistic groups.
Ramanathan.

Dear Dr RamanathanJi,

Even though it is the male who decides the gender of the offspring
but women in India or even in Malaysia are blamed when they give birth to female child.

I have seen so many patients get blamed by their Mothers In Law.
I just tell them that the male Y chromosome which decides...

Man can get away with anything.... Yet to see anyone blaming them for producing female child.

Respected Renuka mam

Is that happens even in Malaysia? What about the marriage systems there? Why dont you throw some light over that...

Respected AP sir
As quoted by Nara ji, Arul is exactly a tamil name. Pillai denotes to 'child' 'boy' at the same time a community too. Which system you follows now? I mean marriage and other social gatherings, since much of the customs have been mixed. (I think all the 4, which you said have rich in there cultures, ofcourse in their own way too)

Pranams

Originally Posted by DURGADASAN

Respected Renuka mam

Is that happens even in Malaysia? What about the marriage systems there? Why dont you throw some light over that...

Respected AP sir
As quoted by Nara ji, Arul is exactly a tamil name. Pillai denotes to 'child' 'boy' at the same time a community too. Which system you follows now? I mean marriage and other social gatherings, since much of the customs have been mixed. (I think all the 4, which you said have rich in there cultures, ofcourse in their own way too)

Pranams

Dear DurgadasanJi,

You know you can take an Indian out of India but you can't take India out of an Indian.

Even here people blame DIL when they keep on giving births to girls.
Some even say that its the female who has no luck to carry a son etc.
Parents want their first child to be a boy always...
If its a girl they are disappointed.
Even chinese are like that.
For them they must have male to pass on the family surname.
Some traditional chinese do not consider their daughters children as their grandchildren because of the different surname they carry.

Well coming to marriage in Malaysia... Its like this..The engagement cost will be bourned by the Girls side and the Marriage cost will be bourned by the Boys side.
Groom has to buy saree/gold/clothes for bride for both engagement and marriage.
Buy clothes for inlaws and gold ring for mappilai tholen.

This is for Non Brahmin/Non dowry type of Tamilian/Malayali/Telegu.

Some Non Brahmins like Gounders/Chettiars..still have dowry system like in India.
Its mainly the bussiness community type of tamilians who still practise Dowry system.
Some Non Brahmin Telegus also have dowry system.

Sri Lankan tamilians practise Dowry system till now and are very rigid about it too.

Tamilian Brahmin marriage system here I have no idea.
May you can ask fellow Malaysian Citizen Ms Amala to elaborate on it.(She is Iyer Ponnu)

renu