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Whether there is provision for Upanayanam after getting married

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kannapiran_viswanathan

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One of my close relative son( Iyer Vadama) got married with an other community girl. Unfortunately Upanayanam was not been done due to some unavoidable reasons. Is there any provision for Upanayanam ? As the boy is now wants
the same, kindly inform if there is any provision.

K.Viswanathan.
 
I don't see why he couldn't. A friend of mine received it when he was in his mid-30's, but he was single at the time as well.
 
Hello,

As far as i know there are several complications into this. the upanayanam needs to be completed before the 13th age. After upanayanam only the guy gets his rights to recite the veda mantras. There are prayaschittas for late upanayanam but there also it has some restrictions.

The Way of Life is designed in such a way as it progress from step 1 to step 2 and so on and there is no reverse gear. Till upanayana the guy is considered to be a child. Upanayana is the gate pass for the entry into the first stage called "Brahmacharya" and then only he can enter into the family life called "Grasthasrama". In the case mentioned by you , since he has not had the upanayana happened the validity of his marriage is also in question as he doesn't have the rights to recite the vedic mantras(If the marriage happend in Our way). I personally feel there is no going back as per the sasthras and even if it is done there is no legitimate use in it.

This is just my opinion and the elders and veterans may have other opinions too.


Ram Ram,
Arun M
 
Brahminization through community “Upanayanam”

Held under the auspices of the RSS-body, “Kerala Kshetra Samrakshana Samithi” (Kerala Temple Protection Forum), nine children from different castes were given the holy thread amidst chanting of vedic rites and performance of various rituals under the control and guidance of “Thantris”, the Brahminical priests. The nine children who thus attained the “noble status” of Brahminism through wearing of holy thread belonged to the non-Brahminical upper castes of “Kshatriyas” and “Nairs”, the Backward “Ezhava”, the OBC “Viswakarma” and the Dalit “Araya” castes.


The function was held under the ostensible ground that a person could attain “Brahmanyam” through performance of duty and not by right of birth. This, according to the organisers, was the “important essence” of what is known as “Paliyam Declaration” of 1987 following the congregation of Kerala’s Vedic Pandits and scholars at Paliyam, near Chennamangalam in Thrissur District. According to the “Paliyam Declaration”, anybody can attain “Brahmanyam” through “Karma” (duty), even if he was born in a different non-Brahmin caste. All such Brahmins through performance of duty can also become priests to perform “Pooja”, including in Temples, according to the “Paliyam Declaration”. The organisers of the community “Upanayanam” claimed that the function was a fulfillment of the 14-year old “Paliyam Declaration”. It was also claimed that this would be a land-mark event in Kerala’s history of social progress to eliminate caste.

The Iskcon (International Society for Krishna Consciousness), a spiritual organisation of worldwide reputation, functioning all over the world, have members of various religions who have undergone Upanayanam, grow tuft, wear saffron clothes and function as Hindus.
 
A Brahmin friend's daughter married an American (anglo-sexton), the Hindu priest conducted the wedding. Just before the wedding he decided that the boy should have poonal. So he conducted upanaynam and then the marriage.
Happily they have beautiful family and successful life. I do not know if the boy still does his Sandyanavandanam.

Recently they celebrated the Upanayanam of their son who is now 12 years old.
 
My dad was a "vaideega" and the similar request came from a relative. My dad, then told him that it cannot be done after marriage. Though, they got it done through other priests. As per our shastras, as someone mentioned, we go through the steps. Once you miss it, you miss it. You can't go back.
 
Sir,
If there ia a desire, there is a way to get done anything. In Hinduism you can find excuse to get around any "so called Sashtras".
Shastras are not Vedas. No body has any authority on shastras. So find the right priest and get done what ever you fancy. But for true realization you do not need to convert or go through any procedure.
 
Upanayanam is to be done for the boy who has spatika-like mind. That is, after 7 yrs. He is supposed to be taken to a teacher without a corrupted mind. After many a travail and turmoil, one should have become comparatively a better man and acquiring a bit of knowledge of what the scriptures say. So the poonal becomes unnecessary for those who are well past that impressionable age. Suppose you want to give treats to your friends and near and distant relatives in the manner you want, then there are people who will do anything for money. In the modern world it is always one's choosing. Shastras tell you only when to do a thing right. I doubt that anybody can challenge this.
 
"The Dharmashastras are bound to shock the sensibilities of many educated modern men and women. These scriptures belong to an age when people conducted their lives based on certain beliefs, values, traditions and assumptions. It is not fair to judge them based on our present day values and social norms. On the positive side Hinduism marched ahead while these law books lost their relevance and fell aside into the dustbin of history. The books have become relics of the past while Hinduism assimilated new currents of thought and transformed itself into a progressive, evolving and expanding religious tradition."
"Some of the laws prescribed in the Dharama Sutras are therefore bound to offend the sensibilities and sentiments of many modern day Hindus, who have been brought upon the values of equality, individual liberty and social justice. Many verses in these scriptures stand in contrast to these fundamental values that define many democratic societies today and characterize the free world. Readers are requested to consider these scriptures from an academic or historical point of view to understand the times they represent. To consider them as the authoritative text books of present day moral or social values of Hinduism would be an anathema. They belong to a particular time frame and represent certain social and moral values most of which are irrelevant today."






By V.Jayaram
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/hinduism/dharma/dharmashastras.asp

Mr. Iyyarooraan,
Shastras tell you only when to do a thing right. I doubt that anybody can challenge this.
Manu Is so much biased and prejudiced against woman that he denies her any property and marital rights. Even the
Vedas proclaim that the mind of a woman is uncontrollable and there can be no friendship with women for they have wicked hearts. Later works of sruti have also described women as weak and wretched", and no sympathy or kindness must be shown to a woman. In Dharmasastra the position of woman sank to an all time low level.

Criticisms of the Laws of Manu


Present-day scholars have criticized the work significantly. The rigidity in the caste system and the contemptible attitude towards women are not acceptable today. The almost divine reverence shown to the Brahmin caste and the despicable attitude towards the 'Sudras' (the lowest caste) is objectionable. The Sudras were forbidden to participate in the Brahmin rituals and were subjected to severe punishments whereas the Brahmins were exempted from any kind of reprimand for crimes. The practice of medicine was prohibited to the upper caste. Women were considered inept, inconsistent, and sensual and were restrained from learning the Vedic texts or participating in important social functions. They were kept in abject subjugation all their lives.
 
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"The Dharmashastras are bound to shock the sensibilities of many educated modern men and women. These scriptures belong to an age when people conducted their lives based on certain beliefs, values, traditions and assumptions. It is not fair to judge them based on our present day values and social norms. On the positive side Hinduism marched ahead while these law books lost their relevance and fell aside into the dustbin of history. The books have become relics of the past while Hinduism assimilated new currents of thought and transformed itself into a progressive, evolving and expanding religious tradition."
"Some of the laws prescribed in the Dharama Sutras are therefore bound to offend the sensibilities and sentiments of many modern day Hindus, who have been brought upon the values of equality, individual liberty and social justice. Many verses in these scriptures stand in contrast to these fundamental values that define many democratic societies today and characterize the free world. Readers are requested to consider these scriptures from an academic or historical point of view to understand the times they represent. To consider them as the authoritative text books of present day moral or social values of Hinduism would be an anathema. They belong to a particular time frame and represent certain social and moral values most of which are irrelevant today."






By V.Jayaram
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/hinduism/dharma/dharmashastras.asp

Mr. Iyyarooraan,

Manu Is so much biased and prejudiced against woman that he denies her any property and marital rights. Even the
Vedas proclaim that the mind of a woman is uncontrollable and there can be no friendship with women for they have wicked hearts. Later works of sruti have also described women as weak and wretched", and no sympathy or kindness must be shown to a woman. In Dharmasastra the position of woman sank to an all time low level.

Criticisms of the Laws of Manu


Present-day scholars have criticized the work significantly. The rigidity in the caste system and the contemptible attitude towards women are not acceptable today. The almost divine reverence shown to the Brahmin caste and the despicable attitude towards the 'Sudras' (the lowest caste) is objectionable. The Sudras were forbidden to participate in the Brahmin rituals and were subjected to severe punishments whereas the Brahmins were exempted from any kind of reprimand for crimes. The practice of medicine was prohibited to the upper caste. Women were considered inept, inconsistent, and sensual and were restrained from learning the Vedic texts or participating in important social functions. They were kept in abject subjugation all their lives.

Over the centuries modifications to the actual truth would have happened..thats why Dharma is said to be on the decline.

So everything has to be taken with a cup full of salt!!

I do not know why woman are always described to be less trustworthy but when a mother us who our father is..that word we believe till we die!
 
To be precise, as a common sense according to Hindu rituals, one has to have Upanayanam
prior to Marriage only to become eligible to chant Veda Mantras. Upanayanam is not done
for the mere purpose of marriage only. It makes a boy to become eligible to chant Veda
Mantras and follow all Hindu rights/rites. In fact, according to Hindu rituals, he enters the
fray of a Brahmin fold. If a boy is not performed Upanayanam, he is not even eligible to do
the Karma of his parent. A boy becomes ineligible to do Puja in the Temple, if he is not
having Sacred Thread, in some temples, according to Temple Agamas.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur
 
In Arya samaj every one reads all veda mantras. They do not have to have Sacred Thread. Even women read it. We have local female priest who conducts Havan.
 
Who are those "present day scholars", who have read the entire Vedas, understood the meaning to say that women were treated badly? I am curious to know. It's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to read the entire Vedas, understand it as sanskrit words, when you split or add with one, can give completely different meaning, to get the conclusion.

Just for your information, during Vedic period, women have also participated in Vedic debates on par with Men. If they were not supposed to be treated equally, why do you think they were allowed to participate in debate? We all consider Lord Shiva as "Arthanareeswaran", who has given half of him to Goddess Parvati, to show that both gender are equal.

"The Dharmashastras are bound to shock the sensibilities of many educated modern men and women. These scriptures belong to an age when people conducted their lives based on certain beliefs, values, traditions and assumptions. It is not fair to judge them based on our present day values and social norms. On the positive side Hinduism marched ahead while these law books lost their relevance and fell aside into the dustbin of history. The books have become relics of the past while Hinduism assimilated new currents of thought and transformed itself into a progressive, evolving and expanding religious tradition."
"Some of the laws prescribed in the Dharama Sutras are therefore bound to offend the sensibilities and sentiments of many modern day Hindus, who have been brought upon the values of equality, individual liberty and social justice. Many verses in these scriptures stand in contrast to these fundamental values that define many democratic societies today and characterize the free world. Readers are requested to consider these scriptures from an academic or historical point of view to understand the times they represent. To consider them as the authoritative text books of present day moral or social values of Hinduism would be an anathema. They belong to a particular time frame and represent certain social and moral values most of which are irrelevant today."

Criticisms of the Laws of Manu

Present-day scholars have criticized the work significantly. The rigidity in the caste system and the contemptible attitude towards women are not acceptable today. The almost divine reverence shown to the Brahmin caste and the despicable attitude towards the 'Sudras' (the lowest caste) is objectionable. The Sudras were forbidden to participate in the Brahmin rituals and were subjected to severe punishments whereas the Brahmins were exempted from any kind of reprimand for crimes. The practice of medicine was prohibited to the upper caste. Women were considered inept, inconsistent, and sensual and were restrained from learning the Vedic texts or participating in important social functions. They were kept in abject subjugation all their lives.
 
The point was who or at what time upanayanam should be done. The points raised are not my contention. The world has not ended and the cycle is on. What the world is today is good for today. Let us talk about a time before 50/60 years. There were more girls and many of them suffered hardship, humiliation and their families were slighted by whom? By ladies - mothers-in-law and sisters-in-law. The f-i-l and s-i-l were silent spectators and partners in the nonsense. Many of them must be alive today and they are those who talk of women and their rights. And why it was so. Because the ladies were powerful and made their spouses and issues dance to their tune. Did they not know the other woman's pride and emotions. Having rendered families pauper in the past, we hear the cries of atrocities on women today. I request all brahmins, please do not mouth others words. Judge yourself fairly and do not blame shastras because everybody else does it. Shastras are for guidance for good life and the elements have not ordained you to be stagnant and rot. God has given you intelligence to wean it or weed out. Nobody has said that you should surrender your intelligence to shastras. Intelligence is your exclusive property and the shastras are public property. Glean good things from them and live happily. Once own intelligence is one thing and we should not bask in the glory of borrowed intelligence. Some people have twisted the past and confused people for their own gain. I will not fall between the awards and the people who aspire to get them by these means. Judge yourself if you are right and if you are, that is it.
 
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Worth repeating in bold font. Let us hope part of it at least is understood.

The point was who or at what time upanayanam should be done. The points raised are not my contention. The world has not ended and the cycle is on. What the world is today is good for today. Let us talk about a time before 50/60 years. There were more girls and many of them suffered hardship, humiliation and their families were slighted by whom? By ladies - mothers-in-law and sisters-in-law. The f-i-l and s-i-l were silent spectators and partners in the nonsense. Many of them must be alive today and they are those who talk of women and their rights. And why it was so. Because the ladies were powerful and made their spouses and issues dance to their tune. Did they not know the other woman's pride and emotions. Having rendered families pauper in the past, we hear the cries of atrocities on women. I request all brahmins, please do not mouth others words. Judge yourself fairly and do not blame shastras because everybody else does it. Shastras for guidance for good life and the elements have not ordained you to be stagnant and rot. Some people have twisted the past and confused people for their own gain. I will not fall between the awards and the people who aspire to get them by these means. Judge yourself if you are right and if you are, that is it.
 
Held under the auspices of the RSS-body, “Kerala Kshetra Samrakshana Samithi” (Kerala Temple Protection Forum), nine children from different castes were given the holy thread amidst chanting of vedic rites and performance of various rituals under the control and guidance of “Thantris”, the Brahminical priests. The nine children who thus attained the “noble status” of Brahminism through wearing of holy thread belonged to the non-Brahminical upper castes of “Kshatriyas” and “Nairs”, the Backward “Ezhava”, the OBC “Viswakarma” and the Dalit “Araya” castes.
The function was held under the ostensible ground that a person could attain “Brahmanyam” through performance of duty and not by right of birth. This, according to the organisers, was the “important essence” of what is known as “Paliyam Declaration” of 1987 following the congregation of Kerala’s Vedic Pandits and scholars at Paliyam, near Chennamangalam in Thrissur District. According to the “Paliyam Declaration”, anybody can attain “Brahmanyam” through “Karma” (duty), even if he was born in a different non-Brahmin caste. All such Brahmins through performance of duty can also become priests to perform “Pooja”, including in Temples, according to the “Paliyam Declaration”. The organisers of the community “Upanayanam” claimed that the function was a fulfillment of the 14-year old “Paliyam Declaration”. It was also claimed that this would be a land-mark event in Kerala’s history of social progress to eliminate caste.
The Iskcon (International Society for Krishna Consciousness), a spiritual organisation of worldwide reputation, functioning all over the world, have members of various religions who have undergone Upanayanam, grow tuft, wear saffron clothes and function as Hindus.

1.Wearing the holy thread or poonool does not give anyone a "noble status"(?) of "Brahminism" if there is any such ism at all.
2. Kshatriyas (nowadays we do not know who are these kashatriyas because this caste has conveniently metamorphosed into many castes with colorful names.) and vysyas wore the poonool as a matter of natural right as per the dharma shastras.
3.What is this "brahmanyam" talked about here? a cousin of "brahminism"?. If so both needs definition.
4.Who stops any one from wearing a poonool if one chooses to do that for whatever reason?

Now coming to the question in the OP, upanayanam is done when the boy is ready to go to a teacher to learn. It is meaningless to do it when some one is 30 years old or 60 years old because it would become just a meaningless ritual then. We do not see the Indian National Flag lowered with the sounding of bugles in the morning. Similarly it is not hoisted in the night. Certain things have to be done only at the time meant for them.

Cheers.
 
The much abused varnaashrama system:

There have been innumerable discussions on our Hindu Varnaashrama system which of course is no more in vogue. There was before, there are now and there will ever be such discussions but the subject gives ‘kick’ to all those who get itches to write about or speak about. Please bear in mind these people were not the contemporaries of the system when it was in vogue or rather supposed to be. I would like to view the system and its efficiency totally condemning those who would like to or want to segregate human from human. World has rejected monarchism or autocracy or any authoritarianism and more than half of the world has embraced democracy. Everybody must be happy. But alas, nobody is so. Because democracy has accommodated all isms inside it and they manifest in all vulgar splendours. I think in about a few hundred years hence the world will see new writers, philosophers, analysts, scholars and experts of sorts condemning the word democracy and attribute its ills to Brahminism which will have had second cycle then. Wishing all those buddies a happy life.

Now coming back to operative part of Varnaashrama system, it is in the absence of such system, we are having to many short-circuits and numerous lives are lost. In the absence of such system, many bridges, buildings, flyovers are collapsing. In the absence of such system there are many accidents on railways and roads. Our general administrations have degenerated because there is no varnaashrama system. A girl working in banking system is not willing to marry an IT. Is not that varnaashrama for you. Today’s computer eningeer will pooh-pooh yesterdays engineers of other branches of engineering. Consider these against those dams built by “Karikaalans”, temples built by Kings, Taj Mahal and there are innumerable edifices which stand today as heritage monuments built by the Varnaashramites. Medicines of yore have come to us by Varnaashramites.Vedas have come to us this through Varnaashramites. Arts and Fine arts have come to us through Varnaashramites. Arte facts, Handicrafts, Potteries, Sculptures, and special textile or fabric works, and too many other things have come to us through Varnaashramites only. I may add more if I get more itches
 
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Try meeting a good astrologer and working out with the birth charts and then try working out with upanayam. Hope this would help a lot.
 
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