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Shraddha Mantram

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To drsundaram:

யன் மே மாதா ப்ரலுலோபாஸ்சரந்தி அநனுவ்றதா
தன் மே ரேத: பிதா வ்றுங்க்தாம் மாऽபுரன்யோऽவபத்யதாँ ஸ்வதா நம:
பித்ர இதம் ந மம

yan me mAtA pralulobhAScarantyananuvratA
tan me reta: pitA vr^ngktAm mA/bhuranyo/vapadyatAg^m svadhA nama:
pitra idam na mama

I do not know who really is my father. still I am considering her as my real father's wife and am doing this Sraaddham, the complete meaning is far worse..
 
Hello
Kindly buy a book aapasthamba parvana srardha prayogam wriiten by srivatsa somadeva sarma available in giri traders and also in bhavani book centre station road west mambalam.. He has given tamil meaning for these mantras.
 
ty Mr Gopalan

i knew the meaning and that's why ask someone 'learned' as to why such a mantram is used or may be even exist in our rituals...questioning what aspect of life ??
 
Dear Gopalan

The book which you had recommended is not available at
Giri Trading Agency or Bhavani Book Centre. I hope you
would be having a copy of the same.I request you to post the
meaning of the mantram for the benefit of the members of
this forum.
 
enathu thai pathivratha dharmapadi pathiyin dharma vrathangalai poornamaha anushtikamalirundalum ennai undu pannina pithavae intha havissai perattum.vidhi thavari irundal havissai pera varum pira asuradhigal/bramaratchidhargal ithai adaya vendam.water in tha havissai en pithavai thavira marravargal kondu pokatha padi thadukkattum. Pitha mahi pitha maharudan anuvratham seyyathirunrhalum pitha maharukke ithu sellattum.

prapitha mahi than pathudan anuvratham seyyadhirundhalum prapitha mahare ithai erkattum. rithu, ahorathram;sandhya kalam;maadam;paksham;mountains;eight directions earth; aagiyorin adhistana devadaigal pira asuradhi brahma rakshadhar galai thadukkattum.

raedhah pitha enbadhal adhillatha another pitha indha havissai pera varuvadhaghavum avargalai thaduppathu indha manthram ena silar koorugirargal; idhu mother i asudha paduthuvadhal indha manthramae koodathu ena silar koorru. Pira suthrathil idhu illai.

Thaai pathiyudan orumitha karmaavil eedupadavittaal asurargalum; brahma rakshadhargalum ithai apagarippathaaga sasthram koorugirathu.

sri vatsa somadeva sarma is writing like this in his book.
 
post #6 in tamil script...(to the best of google's ability) :0

எனது தாய் பதிவ்ரத தர்மபடி பதியின் தர்ம வ்ரதங்களை பூர்ணமஹா அனுஷ்டிகமளிருண்டலும் என்னை உண்டு பண்ணின பிதாவே இந்த ஹவிஸ்ஸை
பெறட்டும் .விதி தவறி இருந்தால் ஹவிஸ்ஸை பெற வரும் பிற அசுரதிகள் / பிரமரட்சிதர்கள் இதை அடைய வேண்டாம் . வாட்டர்
இன் தா ஹவிஸ்ஸை என் பிதாவை தவிர மற்றவர்கள் கொண்டு போகாத படி thadukkattum. பீதா மகி பிதா மகாருடன் அனுவ்ரதம் செய்யதிருன்ர்ஹளும்
பிதா மகாருக்கே இது செல்லட்டும் பிறப்பித்த மகி தான் பத்துடன் அனுவ்ரதம் செய்யதிருந்தலும் பிறப்பித்த மகாரே இதை ஏற்கட்டும்
. ரித்து , அஹோரத்ரம் ;சந்த்யா காலம ;மாடம் ;பக்ஷம் ;மௌண்டைன்ஸ் ;eight directions earth; ஆகியோரின் அதிச்டன தேவதைகள்
பிற அசுரதி பிரம்மா ரக்ஷதர் களை தடுக்கட்டும்
.ரேதாஹ் பிதா என்பதால் அதில்லாத அனொதெர் பிதா இந்த ஹவிஸ்ஸை பெற வருவதாகவும் அவர்களை தடுப்பது இந்த மந்த்ரம்
என சிலர் கூறுகிறார்கள் ; இது mother இ அசுத படுத்துவதால் இந்த மந்த்ரமே கூடாது என சிலர் கூற்று . பிற சுத்ரத்தில் இது இல்லை
.தாய் பதியுடன் ஒருமித்த கர்மாவில் ஈடுபடாவிட்டால் அசுரர்களும் ; பிரம்மா ரக்ஷதர்களும் இதை அபகரிப்பதாக சாஸ்த்ரம் கூறுகிறது
 
எனது தாய் பதிவ்ரதாதர்மப்படி பதியின் தர்மவ்ரதங்களைப் பூர்ணமாக அனுஷ்டிக்காமலிருந்தாலும் என்னை உண்டு பண்ணின பிதாவே இந்த ஹவிஸ்ஸைப் பெறட்டும். விதிதவறி இருந்தால் ஹவிஸ்ஸைப் பெறவரும் பிற அஸுரர்கள்/ப்ரஹ்மரட்சிதர்கள் (ப்ரஹமரக்ஷஸ்?) இதை அடையவேண்டாம். வாட்டர் (ஜலம்?) இந்த ஹவிஸ்ஸை என் பிதாவைத் தவிர மற்றவர்கள் கொண்டுபோகாதபடி தடுக்கட்டும். பிரபிதாமஹி தன் பதியுடன் அனுவ்ரதம் செய்யாதிருந்தாலும் பிரபிதாமஹரே இதை ஏர்க்கட்டும். ரிது, அஹோராத்ரம், ஸந்த்யாகாலம், மாதம், பக்ஷம், மலைகள், அஷ்டதிக்குகள், பூமி, ஆகியோரின் அதிஷ்டானதேவதைகள் பிற அஸுராதி ப்ரஹ்மராக்ஷதர்களைத் தடுக்கட்டும்.

ரேத: பிதா என்பதால் அதில்லாத another பிதா இந்த ஹவிஸ்ஸைப் பெற வருவதாகவும் அவர்களைத்தடுப்பது இந்த மந்திரம் எனச் சிலர் கூறுகிறார்கள். இது மாதாவை (mother-ஐ) அசுத்தப்படுத்துவதால் இந்த மந்திரமே கூடாது எனச் சிலர் கூற்று.


தாய் பதியுடன் ஒருமித்து கர்மாவில் ஈடுபடாவிட்டால் அஸுரர்களும், ப்ரஹ்மரட்சதர்களும் இதை அபகரிப்பதாக சாஸ்திரம் கூறுகிறது.

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When we look at the mantra without prejudice, it is like this:

यन्मॆ माता प्रलुलॊभा भवन्त्यननुव्रता ।

तन्मे रेतः पिता वृङ्क्ताम् मा आभुर् अन्यो अवपद्यताँ स्वधा नमः ।
...गॊत्रॆ ...शर्मणे पित्रॆ स्वाहा । पित्र इदम् न मम ।

yanme mātā pralulobhā bhavantyananuvratā |
tanme retaḥ pitā vṛṅktām mā ābhur anyo avapadyatām̐ svadhā namaḥ |
...gotre ...śarmaṇe pitre svāhā | pitra idam na mama |


The word meanings are -


pralulobhā - being specially fascinated

ananuvratā - not devoted, disobedient
retaḥ pitā - biological father
me - my
vṛṅktām - after selecting, after finding out
ābhu: - empty, without effect or result
avapadyatām - fall down

Based on the above meanings, the mantra will mean -


"If my mother, out of special fascination, had not been devoted (obedient) then may this oblation (offering into fire) be given to my biological father, after (selecting him) finding him out; let this not fall down or become empty (without effect or result); prostrations to svadhā."


After this the offering is given with the mantra, " I welcome (svāhā = su + āhā = good calling, this means welcome in an apprximate sense, I feel.)xxx śarma of ...gotra, pitṛ."


Here, the word pitṛ should mean "father" because the samkalpa for the śrāddha ceremony clearly says that it is for the father of the karttā. Further, the same mantra is repeated replacing 'mātā' and 'pitā' with ’pitāmahī’ and’pitāmah’,’prapitām
ahī’” and ’prapitāmah’, subsequently.

Srivatsa Somadeva Sarma seems to have added an additional dimension saying that if the wife errs in following the codes for a pativrata, the oblations will be taken away by asurās and brahmarakṣases. Again he does not clearly say about the biological grandfather and the biological great grandfather, which the mantras clearly mean.



These mantras were introduced into the āpastamba gṛhyasūtra only, since Shri Srivatsa Somadeva Sarma says so.


The reasons can only be conjectured at this distance of time. Let me hasten to state as clearly as possible, that I do not at all contribute to the view about women which this mantra represents, or hold that it is the reality, or that, therefore, all -or, at least those who follow āpastambasūtra - should (do) have their paternity and entire lineages in doubt. I am writing this caveat specially to prevent such an impression being gained by anyone, and I am viewed as hypocritical if I happen to express my own views on subsequent occasions.


I feel some guesses about why such a mantra was incorporated can be made.


One possible reason might have been the overimportance given to the "gotra" or bloodline concept by āpastamba. If the biological father belonged to a gotra different from the socially accepted one, perhaps, it was believed that the oblation becomes "empty" (like an "addressee not found" letter which is sent to the DLO). This could be envisaged because the criteria of gotra, śarma and the depiction as 'father', 'grandfather',etc., will not tally in the other world when agni or his consort svadhā carries the essence of the oblation to the world of pitṝs and hence it goes to satisfy the hunger of asurās and brahmarakṣases. (actually the word used is "rakṣases" and not brahmarakṣases which are supposed to be the souls of brahmanas suffering for certain types of sins or as a result of curse - 'apahatā asurā rakṣām̐si vediṣadaḥ’ , the last word means 'sitting in or on the altar' - I am following what Shri Gopalan has said) The use of the words "ābhu: - empty, without effect or result" and "avapadyatām - fall down" seems relevant in this regard.


However it is important to note that immediately following this request to svadhā, the known father designated by his gotra and śarman details is addressed with the svāhā mantra.


2. There could have been a time when womenfolk had much independence, and the society, therefore, was more open to sexual freedom, than we have known about our past from various sources so far. Probably to remind the menfolk in the most poignant manner against such freedom for women in society, āpastamba could have inserted this mantra. Again this is just a conjecture and I do not hold the view that our ancestors lived in a society with lot of promiscuity, sexual abandon, etc.
 
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Homam for father

the homam is after all performed for the father, rather than jus' calling out his name, his attributes why invoke the mother...raise unrelated questions and thereafter justify about asuras partaking the havisu...

li'l more understanding required pl
 
the homam is after all performed for the father, rather than jus' calling out his name, his attributes why invoke the mother...raise unrelated questions and thereafter justify about asuras partaking the havisu...

li'l more understanding required pl


You are right in saying that the homam is for the father. But this mantram revolves around the question of the "proper" father or the biological father. The openly acknowledged father, for whom and after whose demise, these rights are performed, do not seem to fit in with the concept of rightful father as viewed by
āpastamba. Here the mother is not "invoked" in the sense of summoning, calling, praying but squarely, her fidelity is suspected.

In this context I have read a story, long ago, that in ancient times (may be in the past yugas) the pitrus used to be visible to the offerer of oblations. But with the advent of Kaliyuga, some great person (Sri Rama, some versions hold) found that the person who appeared before him was not his father but a servant of his. Then this great man prayed to Lord Yama and requested him to make the pitrus invisible to living humans. One version of the story goes on to add that it was from then on that the manes started coming in the form of crows.

Thus, it looks as though there was a strong current of suspicion about the faithfulness of women to their husbands and that lies at the root of these mantras.

Hope your doubt is cleared now.

 
Firstly, sincere thanks for the effort you took in replying to my post..

If I were to describe myself a bit, am an inclusive practitioner, in the sense, whatever the doubt, knowledge on veracity, power of our mantrams, samskarams, traditions etc. I seek answers whilst still being a practitioner rather than questioning it and holding that as a reason for not performing ordained rituals (as much as possible)....I see the penance in performance is greater though...

The question on this mantra is bugging me for atleast 11 years now...jus' now this forum gave an opportunity to interact with someone outside known circles...

Now some pertinent issues...more answers are required to for questioning the mother

...why at all, she has no role in the partaking being offered to the father

...doesn't apasthambar hold mother in high esteem, isn't she the first of our gods

...now the shraddam has come to be performed after the father (let us say, who has been introduced by the mother) has passed away, the biological father may after all be alive...some contradiction (did yudishtra perform rites after pandu died ?? i donno)

...in comparison doesn't the other mantram for the homam "yasthishtanthi" innocuous looking ?
 
Firstly, sincere thanks for the effort you took in replying to my post..

If I were to describe myself a bit, am an inclusive practitioner, in the sense, whatever the doubt, knowledge on veracity, power of our mantrams, samskarams, traditions etc. I seek answers whilst still being a practitioner rather than questioning it and holding that as a reason for not performing ordained rituals (as much as possible)....I see the penance in performance is greater though...

The question on this mantra is bugging me for atleast 11 years now...jus' now this forum gave an opportunity to interact with someone outside known circles...

Now some pertinent issues...more answers are required to for questioning the mother

...why at all, she has no role in the partaking being offered to the father

Our systems recognise the males only as pitrus. The spouses are considered part of them. This is how there is no rik for the tarpana for the females. When the offering is given in the sraaddha, and the father gets it, it is supposed to satisfy the father and his spouse.

...doesn't apasthambar hold mother in high esteem, isn't she the first of our gods
Earlier to the injunction "maatrudevo bhava" in Taittireeya upanishad I don't think the importance of mother has been so clearly spelt out in our scriptures. The wife was considered as chattel of the man, probably, meriting no special mention.

...now the shraddam has come to be performed after the father (let us say, who has been introduced by the mother) has passed away, the biological father may after all be alive...some contradiction (did yudishtra perform rites after pandu died ?? i donno)
This is a very logical issue. I would say that so long as the biological father is alive, the havis will be waste and grabbed by rakshases and asuras. But since you say you persevere in performing the rituals even if they are found illogical, this may not matter to you. As for Pandu, etc., I am not an authority, but "niyoga" was an accepted rule and so even the 'divyagarbhas' of Kunti and Madri did not tantamount to adultery or "ananuvrata". I am not aware if M.Bh. gives narration of Sraaddha for Pandu.

But why Yudhishtira only? According to our present norms, though the cremation and immediate funeraru rites till aabdeeka sraaddham is to be done by the eldest son alone, in subsequent years all sons are required to perform Sraaddham, if they cannot join the eldest. Is this not illogical? Similarly what about tarpanam?

So, there are only two ways - 1. don't enquire into religion for logical answers. 2. If you enquire, find illogicality, be bold to reject such things.

...in comparison doesn't the other mantram for the homam "yasthishtanthi" innocuous looking ?

Needs study. Will write later.
 
Shri Jpoosha,

I could not locate a mantra beginning "yasthishtanthi" in the aapasthamba sraaddha mantra book which I have, an old book in grantha lipi, much of which has been eaten by white ants. But there is a verse like this in Atharva veda-

ब्रह्मा - त्रिष्टुप् - वरुण:

यस्तिष्टति चरति यश्च वञ्चति यो निलायं चरति यः प्रतङ्कम् \
द्वौ संनिषद्य यन्मन्त्रयेते राज तद्वेद वरुणस्तृतीयः ॥ AV.4.i6.2^.

yastiṣṭati carati yaśca vañcati yo nilāyaṃ carati yaḥ prataṅkam ।
dvau saṃniṣadya yanmantrayete rāja tadveda varuṇastṛtīyaḥ ||

If you can give the full mantram which you refer to and also where it comes - in agnisandhaana, sraaddha homa - it will be possible to say further.
 
yaasthisthanthi yadhavanthi yaa aardhrognihi parithasthushihi adbir visvasya barthribirandaranyam.pithurdathae
 
yaasthisthanthi yadhavanthi yaa aardhrognihi parithasthushihi adbir visvasya barthribirandaranyam.pithurdathae

Shri Gopalan,

It is not found in the remnants of the book which I have. It is also not easy to figure out the correct Sanskrit words from what transliteration you have given. To me the sanskrit mantra appears - from the above - will be as follows:

यास्तिष्ठन्ति यधावन्ति (यद्धावन्ति? or याधावन्ति?) या आर्ध्रोग्निः परितष्ठुभिः
अद्भिर् (?) विश्वस्य भर्तृभिर् अन्दरन्यम् । पितुर्दतॆ

This is very difficult to decipher. As such it does not appear to cast any reflection on women. Since you have the book please post the tamil meaning also for our knowledge.
 
I have a book written by Sri. aNNA where the manthram is given in Tamizh.With my limited knowledge of Sanskrit I won't dare to transliterate it. So I am reproducing the manthram
below, as it has been printed in the book.

யாஸ்திஷ்ட்டந்தி யா தாவந்தி யா ஆர்த்ரோக்னீஃ பரி தஸ்துஷீஃ|

அத்பிர் விச்வஸ்ய ர்த்ரீபி - ரந்தரன் யம் பிதுர் தே |
 
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From the two transliterations given by gopalan and saarangam, I feel that the correct mantra might be as follows:

यास्तिष्ठन्ति या धावन्ति या आर्द्रॊऽघ्नीः परितस्तुषी ।
अद्भिर्विश्वस्य भर्त्रीभिरन्तरन्यम् पितुर् दधॆ ॥

yāstiṣṭhanti yā dhāvanti yā ārdro:'ghnīḥ paritastuṣī |
adbhirviśvasya bhartrībhirantaranyam pitur dadhe ||

I think this is the mantra which has been explained by Shri Srivatsa Somadeva Sarma in the words "வாட்டர் (ஜலம்?) இந்த ஹவிஸ்ஸை என் பிதாவைத் தவிர மற்றவர்கள் கொண்டுபோகாதபடி தடுக்கட்டும்". The words in the first line describe the waters [āpa:] as those static (sitting - tiṣṭhanti) or the ponds, lakes, etc., those which are running - like the rivers (dhāvanti - running), paritas means on all sides, everywhere, tuṣī means quiet, satisfied, etc.. The word bhartrī means female supporter, mother. Only, the word "ārdro:'ghnīḥ" is not clear; 'ārdra' means moist, ghna means 'kill' and so the word ārdro:'ghnīḥ describes waters as those who 'make moist and kill', i.e., to dissolve. This is a prayer to the waters to see that the oblation - meant for the father - does not fall into others' hands.

Probably Shri jpoosha was led to believe that this mantra also has some unpalatable meaning by the presence of the words "viśvasya bhartrī"; but taken by itself the meaning of the mantra looks harmless to me, though, if considered along with the other mantra, viz., yan me mātā...etc., it may sound offensive to some (but my personal view is that this mantra by itself is harmless and is a prayer to the waters to ensure proper delivery of the oblations to the father of the kartā, whatever type of father it may be that is specified by the previous mantra).

I find, now, from the available portion of the page in my book that similar prayers to the mountains, earth, the four directions, etc., in the same vein, to ensure that the oblation to pitāmaha is not delivered to anyone else except the biological pitāmaha, is there, and, in the case of the prapitāmaha, the agencies invoked are the seasons, day and night, the sandhyās, the lunar pakshas, the months, etc.
 
TO ALL,
I do not know why anyone should get upset or annoyed with such mantras in our religious texts.I really appreciate the learned Scholars
for understanding human behaviour and making provision in the religious texts for such a situation which may be in a few cases.
I have read a tamil book several years ago(printed in 1923) about old stories of Maharastra translated in tamil.Almost in every stories it was highlighted about a custom of offering one's wife to a guest(Athiti).In another story, guest comes to the house,her husband has gone out and the wife receives the guest with usual honours.There is nothing to offer to the guest.The wife goes to a vaishya's shop and wants provisions to feed
the guest.The shopkeeper agrees to provide if the lady agrees to sleep with him for one night.She thinks that her husband will get annoyed
if the guest is not treated with honour.She accepts the condition of the vaishya, with a proviso, after husband returns home.She gets the provisions and feed the guest.In the meantime the husband returns and is very happy that his wife has taken proper care of the guest.
The wife narrates everything to her husband who also permits her to go to vaishya's house.She prepares herself mentally and when she visits the vaishya's house, he had realised his mistake, bows before the lady and sends her back with presents.Next day he visits the house and apologises
to the husband.
We do not know the'VALUES' which existed in those times.It is better not to judge or crticise earlier customs with the present day values as
yard stick.When Society changes, Values also change.
It is better to follow what Shri.Sangom has said in post no:12.
Accept old practices,even if you find them illogical or be bold to reject them.
Old timers may remember "NANAVATHI Case".Mr.NANAVATHI was a senior officer in INDIAN NAVY and was to become the next chief boss of
Indian Navy.His wife developed illicit relation with one Mr.Ahuja.This incident took place in 1950 in Bombay.Mr.Nanavathi loved his wife very much and pleaded with her to break her relationship with Mr.Ahuja.However the relationship continued.One day Mr.Nanavathi went straight to Mr.Ahuja's place and shot him dead with his service revolver,then drove straight to the police and surrenders and tells the whole episode.
He was taken into custody and the case went to the court.He was awarded life sentence.The entire country including Mr.Jawaharlal Nehru was sympathetic with Mr.Nanavathi, who was pardoned by the Governor of Maharastra and allowed to leave the country and go to England with his wife.
We should develop the habit of accepting things as they happen and move on in Life.Let us not get stuck up in the middle.
Let me conclude with a quote from Reinbold Niebubr.
GOD, grant me the
Serenity
to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage
to change the things I can, and
WISDOM
to know the difference.
 
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...
Old timers may remember "NANAVATHI Case".Mr.NANAVATHI was a senior officer in INDIAN NAVY and was to become the next chief boss of
Indian Navy.His wife developed illicit relation with one Mr.Ahuja.This incident took place in 1950 in Bombay.Mr.Nanavathi loved his wife very much and pleaded with her to break her relationship with Mr.Ahuja.However the relationship continued.One day Mr.Nanavathi went straight to Mr.Ahuja's place and shot him dead with his service revolver,then drove straight to the police and surrenders and tells the whole episode.
He was taken into custody and the case went to the court.He was awarded life sentence.The entire country including Mr.Jawaharlal Nehru was sympathetic with Mr.Nanavathi, who was pardoned by the Governor of Maharastra and allowed to leave the country and go to England with his wife.
We should develop the habit of accepting things as they happen and move on in Life.Let us not get stuck up in the middle.
.

BK,

you kindled long dormant memories by mentioning nanavati. during the nanavati trial, this used to be a topic of intense debate in my house, between mom and dad. i was a child then, expected to be seen and not heard.

from the distance of years, what i remember, is that as a family, both parents found fault with sylvia nthe british wife, for testifying in the court and thus reinforcing the stereotype that all white women are basically loose in character and unfaithful. . the underlying conviction was that an indian wife would never do such things.

a few months ago, i came upon this wikipedia article, which gives a quite different version of the incident. several years older now, and more familar with western mores, i tend to look upon the wikipedia version, and also cmdr nanavati & syliva a little more kindly.

in today's india, the sensationalism of such incidents would probably be still there, but not sure how much different the society would view the mores of the people involved.

incidentally cmdr nanavati died only 8 years ago, in toronto canada.

KM Nanavati v State of Maharashtra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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The problem, to me, seems to be that in the Nanavati case, Sylvia did not feel any guilt till Ahuja said that he might marry other girls also, perhaps later - after divorcing Sylvia, the details are not given in the wikipedia page. So, the problem boils down to this -either both the husband and wife should be faithful to each other, or, if one party is unfaithful that party should allow the same freedom to the partner also and forget about it. Here Sylvia did not want just the illlicit connections to just remain like that (under the carpet); she wanted to marry Ahuja and expected him to be a faithful husband to her until, perhaps, she got attracted to yet another man and ditched Ahuja on some flimsy grounds like Nanavati leaving her for long time on assignments.

Looking at present day situation, this seems to be the truth, viz., women turn to be attracted to some one or other as a substitute mate, if the legal one (husband) has to stay away for long intervals and there is the assurance that the husband will not return unexpectedly. Such instances among the Keralites working in gulf countries is common; while some of them end up in murder - like the Nanavati case - there are many unreported cases where the fool of a husband returns after two or three years to find things gone awry in his home front and divorces the wife, quietly.

I only wonder why the menfolk in such cases marry; it is like buying a cow and maintaining it for a cup of milk once in a blue moon!

There is probably no solution to such human situations!!
 
The problem, to me, seems to be that in the Nanavati case, Sylvia did not feel any guilt till Ahuja said that he might marry other girls also, perhaps later - after divorcing Sylvia, the details are not given in the wikipedia page.
Trust is the most important ingredient in a marriage, a close second is love. It certainly would have been better if Sylvia first get a divorce and then slept with Ahuja. But, I am hesitant to condemn a young and lonely Sylvia for lacking moral clarity at a time of utter vulnerability.

Yes she erred, she got carried away by this suave Ahuja, believed him, but once reality set in, IMO Sylvia redeemed herself coming clean with her husband, didn't hide anything.

I wonder how the Indian public would have reacted if Nanavati was having an affair outside of marriage and Sylvia was the one to commit the crime of passion.

BTW, this case makes me think of Salman Rashdi's Midnight's Children, I don't know why.

Cheers!
 
Well, we all know the legend of Parasurama. His mother who at the mere admiration of the sight the shadows of Gandharvas was supposed to have lost her chastity.

By recalling the stories of moral turpitude of the present times, what purpose is going to be served?

Deviations will always be there, but to portray them in a manner as to justify them will end up throwing the society into chaos. It is like arguing that as most Indians have scant regard for traffic rules, we might abandon those altogether.

It is very unfortunate that elderly members instead of showing the deviations in a perspective as to promote ideal behaviour, blow them up as any tabloid newspaper does for titillating the readers.
 
how do i close this discussion/ thread ?

may be the discussion is deviating... out of context...and isn't it time to close the thread...many thanks to sangom for an exceptional effort
 
may be the discussion is deviating... out of context...and isn't it time to close the thread...many thanks to sangom for an exceptional effort

Threads can be "locked" only by the owner or moderator. so, don't worry. this sort of deviating discussions is not uncommon here in this forum.
 
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