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Time to perform Srardham

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வணக்கம்,

சிரார்த்தம் செய்ய உகந்த நேரம் எது? சில பேர் சொல்வது பகல் 9 மணிக்கு மேல். இன்னும் சில பேர் சொல்வது பகல் 11 .30 மணிக்கு மேல் செய்ய வேண்டும் என்று? இதில் எது சரியானது? சான்றோர்கள் விளக்கம் சொல்ல வேண்டுகிறேன்.

அன்புடன்

சுரேஷ் குமார்
 
வணக்கம்,

சிரார்த்தம் செய்ய உகந்த நேரம் எது? சில பேர் சொல்வது பகல் 9 மணிக்கு மேல். இன்னும் சில பேர் சொல்வது பகல் 11 .30 மணிக்கு மேல் செய்ய வேண்டும் என்று? இதில் எது சரியானது? சான்றோர்கள் விளக்கம் சொல்ல வேண்டுகிறேன்.

அன்புடன்

சுரேஷ் குமார்
Dear Sureshkumar,

I am not very familiar with Tamil. Hence if you have difficulty pl. get this translated.

Apastamba dharmasUtra (II. 7. 16. 4-7) provides certain times for the performance of srAddha viz. ... that the afternoon is preferable for it. Manu (III.276-278) states that the afternoon is preferable to the forenoon for the performance of a sraddha. Apastamba holds that when once a srAddha is begun in the afternoon and owing to some cause there is delay and the sun sets then the performer should perform the remaining rites the next day and he should observe a fast till the placing of the pinDas on the darbhas.

Very learned disquisitions are held in aparArka, hEmAdri and other writers and digests as to the meaning of aparAhna which is the time for srAddha prescribed by Manu (in. 278). There are several views. Some hold that the part of the day after noon is 'after-noon'. The word 'purvAhna' occurs in rgvEda X 34. 11. Others relying on a Sruti text that 'the forenoon is for gods, mid-day for men and afternoon for pitr^s', hold that the third part of the day, divided into three parts, is 'aparAhna.' A third view is that aparAhna is the 4th part of the day divided into five parts and they rely on Satapatha brAhmaNa II. 2. 3 9. The five parts are called prAtaH, sangava, mAdhyandina (or madhyAhna), aparAhna and sAyAhna (or sAyam or astagamana). The first three are expressly mentioned even in the rgvEda V. 76. 3.

prajApati-smr^ti (verses 156-157) says that each of these five parts extends over three muhUrtas (the day being divided into fifteen muhUrtas). It further states that kutapa is the 8th muhUrta from sunrise and that srAddha should be begun in kutapa and should not last
beyond rauhiNa muhUrta and that five muhUrtas (from 8th to 12th) are the maximum time for srAddha. The general rule is that srAddhas are performed in the afternoon (but this applies to srAddha on New moon, mahAlLaya, ashTaka and anvashTaka srAddhas), while vr^ddhisrAddha and srAddha in which only corn is offered - and no food (AmasrAddha) may be performed in the morning.

In this context it is relevant to note that most rituals, including srAddha, have undergone vast changes in regard to the rules and observations connected with them. For instance, there was a type of srAddha called 'ashTakA' in which a cow was sacrificed for the pitr^s. (hiraNyakESi
gr^hyasUtra II.14 & 15. There is divergence in the offerings also. The kAThaka gr^hyasUtra (61. 3), jaimini gr^hyasUtra. 2. 3 and SAnkhAyana gr^hyasUtra (III. 12. 2 ) provide that on the three different ashTakAs the offerings are of cooked vegetables, flesh and apUpas* (cakes) - mAshApUpam means "uLundu vaDai", guLApUpam means "appam" - while the pAraskAra gr^hyasUtra III, 3 and khAdira gr^hyasUtra III 3. 29-30 put apUpas for the first ashTaka (and hence Gobhila Gr. III 10. 9 designates it apUpAshTakA) and boiled vegetables on the last. According to khAdira gr. III. 4.1 a cow is sacrificed. According to ASvalAyana gr^hyasUtra II. 4. 7-10, gObhila gr. IV. 1. 18-22, kauSika 138. 2, baudhayana II.11, 51-61, on the 8th day very many options are given, viz. either to sacrifice a cow or a ram or a goat; or to offer some jungle flesh that may be available or flesh mixed with sesame and honey, or flesh of the rhinoceros, deer, buffalo, ram, boar, spotted deer, hare, rOhita deer, pigeons, sArnga and other birds or an old red goat; fishes or rice cooked in milk so as to form a thin gruel, or gifts only of uncooked corn or fruits and roots, or gold may be offered or only grass for cows or oxen or one may burn some thickets in a forest or present jars (pitchers) for holding water to those deeply learned in the vEda or one should merely recite the mantras relating to srAddha, saying "this is the ashTakA I offer", but one should not remain without observing the ashTakA day in some such manner as above.

The ashtakA srAddha as well as amAvAsi srAddha and the regular srAddha required one cow to be sacrificed, its omentum and flesh to be cooked separately and to be used for oblation in the fire, etc. etc. Even reading these may now be repulsive to many, but I am mentioning just to show that thereis no such thing as "proper time" unless we take some gr^hyasUtra as authority and when we do that we will find that many of the prescriptions there are just impossible to be implemented today. So, it is better to adapt to the convenience of our times and follow what will suit you and the vAdhyAr.

Note: All the information given above has been taken from "History of Dharmasastra" by Mahamahopadhyaya p.V. Kane.
 
Last edited:
One naaligai=24 minutes; one muhurtham is 2 naligai=48 minutes.therefore 7th muhurtham is over by 11-30A.M and ends by 3-30 P.M. after which you should do srardham.

Therefore you may start ( first take bath in the morning dry your clothes which must be wear during srardham) by giving gingilly oil to the sastrigals by about 10.30 A.M. then you have to take maadhyanika snanam wear the dried cloth do maaadhyanikam ;gayathri japam; wear new poonal; do vischinnagni hothram and oupaasanam.

by 11.30 A.M. you can start srardham and it will be finished by 2 P M. In kali yuga as people will be very sexy the use of the flesh of animals is abandoned for srardham. instead of that you have to use plantain unriped fruit(monthan vaalaikai). and also you have to offer in the agni only CURD for astakai srardham.

You are feeling the heat of the sun in the month of may. Imagine what will be heat near the sun and to the sun. The shadow of the Sun is falling on the Sun is the kuthapa kalam, and at that time only the heat will be lessoned for the sun and the sun is able to bless all.

The pithrus are coming down and took their place in the inner aura of the sastrigals which is 2 inches above their physical body. during aavaahanam of the pithrus the dharbai should be one inch atleast above their physical body. (hand) and not touching their physical body. only gingilly oil is having the capacity to remove the dirts in the inner aura. Therefore the sastrigals should take oil bath before srardham.It is not enough to take only one teaspoon of oil in their on their head.
 
Sorry for the mistake . In the first LIne ending it must be you should not do srardham. Kirleokan photography now a days is taking and showing you the inner and outer aura of our bodies. In Tamil nadu chennai one docter in arumbakkam is having that.You are inviting the pithrus and you should not provide them dirty places to sit down.Only they will get angry. The sastrigals are after taking bath in their houses are going out. But the inner aura they have to clean them by taking oil bath in your house. For some persons srardham will come on amavasaior on dwadasi day and nobody should take oil bath on those days. But here the sastrigals is taking oil bath
only from the kartha's earned money's oil and for the good sake of the kartha the sastrigal can take. There is no harm in it.

On these days instead of pure gingilly oil you can mix small amount of ghee and pepper and betel leaf and thulasi leaf and heat them and then give that oil to the sastrigals. now it becomes thailam and anybody can use thailam on any day.
 
திரு சுரேஷ் குமார் அவர்களே,

உசிஷ்டம் தேவ நிர்மால்யம்
ரஜதம் ஸ்வேத பர்ப்படம்
ஸ்ரார்த்தே சப்த பவித்ராணி
தௌஹித்ரா குதபஸ் தில

என்று ஒரு ஸ்லோகம் உள்ளது. அதாவது ஸ்ரார்தத்துக்கு ஏழு அவசியங்கள் உள்ளன. அவை புதிதாகக் கறந்த பால், கங்கை நீர், வெள்ளி, வெண்பட்டு, பெண்வயிற்றுப் பேரன், குதப காலம் மற்றும் எள். இந்த ச்லோகத்தின்படிப் பார்த்தால் ஸ்ரார்த்தம் குதப காலத்தில் அதாவது பத்தரை மணிக்கு மேல் தான் செய்ய வேண்டும். இந்த விளக்கம் உங்களுடைய சந்தேகத்தை தீர்த்துவைக்கும் என்று நம்புகிறேன்.
 
திரு சுரேஷ் குமார் அவர்களே,

உசிஷ்டம் தேவ நிர்மால்யம்
ரஜதம் ஸ்வேத பர்ப்படம்
ஸ்ரார்த்தே சப்த பவித்ராணி
தௌஹித்ரா குதபஸ் தில

என்று ஒரு ஸ்லோகம் உள்ளது. அதாவது ஸ்ரார்தத்துக்கு ஏழு அவசியங்கள் உள்ளன. அவை புதிதாகக் கறந்த பால், கங்கை நீர், வெள்ளி, வெண்பட்டு, பெண்வயிற்றுப் பேரன், குதப காலம் மற்றும் எள். இந்த ச்லோகத்தின்படிப் பார்த்தால் ஸ்ரார்த்தம் குதப காலத்தில் அதாவது பத்தரை மணிக்கு மேல் தான் செய்ய வேண்டும். இந்த விளக்கம் உங்களுடைய சந்தேகத்தை தீர்த்துவைக்கும் என்று நம்புகிறேன்.
I am illiterate on this But I am told that 'venpattu' should not be worn while doing theertha tharpanam etc.When we are doing tharpanam as part of shrardham how this is possible.please clear my doubt.
 
I am illiterate on this But I am told that 'venpattu' should not be worn while doing theertha tharpanam etc.When we are doing tharpanam as part of shrardham how this is possible.please clear my doubt.

It is a common belief and custom that venpattu is not worn during sraddha ceremony probably to show that this is not a 'mangala karyam'. But there seems to be no 'shastra pramanam' ie support of the scriptures for this custom. If it is there, I would request that it may be posted in the forum. Please also note that though the son performs the sraddham of his parent, it is his sister's son and not his own son, who is required to be present for the sraddham.
 
Ven pattu not to wear but should be given to the 2 sastrigals who are taking food there. On those days they will invite sister's son or any other relatives for srardham as all brahmins will not go to work in offices and should not do any busuness. and also no facilities to go abroad or to far off places.
 
Ven pattu not to wear but should be given to the 2 sastrigals who are taking food there. On those days they will invite sister's son or any other relatives for srardham as all brahmins will not go to work in offices and should not do any busuness. and also no facilities to go abroad or to far off places.

Thanks Mr. Gopalan Sir. The sloka I quoted does not explicitly say that ven pattu should be given to the brahmins. It only states that seven things that are considered sacred for srarddham includes ven pattu. If someone is willing to give pattu veshti to the shastrigal, there can be no objection. In any case, if one wants to give ven pattu then it should be to the shastrigal who sits in pitru sthanam. But would the other shastrigals accept this?

one of the sacred shraddah items is silver (there is a saying that 'rajatham pitru vallbham ie pirtus desire silver); but there is no practice of giving silver items to the shastrigals during shraddha.

while one may call relatives one likes, grandson through the daughter is desired by the pitrus according to the sloka I quoted. Incidentally calling too many relatives, not closely related to the dead person, makes sraddham a big function which is not desirable.
 
Pithru sthanam sastrigal and visvedevar sthanam sastrigals will accept ven pattu dhoti. silver vessals are used on those olden days for serving meals to sastrigals.and to keep gingilly seeds;thulasi; ghee for homam etc;
 
Only sastrigals and the kartha's family can take srardha samayal, others should not take pithru sesham and so they will never come. bachlors are used to sit in vishnu elai meals daughter or daughter's are eligible to take meals in vishnu elai.
 
The Time to perform Shrardham is normally after 11.30AM , which ideally is the Madhyanika kalam . This is the ideal time as per shastras , however with modern day living conditions like office pressures , knowlegde of cooking as applicable to shrardham , availability of Vadhyar etc , things have changed and it depends on an individual as to how serious he is. Acutually Shrardham refers to shraddha i.e dedication but unfortunately now a days all karta's have sufficient time and energy for every thing else in life ( specifically applies to Iyers), however when it comes to devoting a day or 2 days in an year ( assuming that mother and father are dead ) people give all sorts of reason and in a cut short manner perform a Hiranya Shrardham ( many people even do not remember the thithi also) and buzz off to work . Very few people across the country are still dedicated in performing these karma's . More over Vadyhar's are also hand in glove in these acts and in order to earn more dakshina's they encourage Karta's to perform Hiranya Shrardham so that they can cover maximum ground and make lots of money on any given day. I too belong to an Iyer family but i am saddened by the way our culture is dwindling and i am sure that going by this rate in another 10 -15 yrs the concept of shrardham will become an endangered species.
 
The Time to perform Shrardham is normally after 11.30AM , which ideally is the Madhyanika kalam . This is the ideal time as per shastras , however with modern day living conditions like office pressures , knowlegde of cooking as applicable to shrardham , availability of Vadhyar etc , things have changed and it depends on an individual as to how serious he is. Acutually Shrardham refers to shraddha i.e dedication but unfortunately now a days all karta's have sufficient time and energy for every thing else in life ( specifically applies to Iyers), however when it comes to devoting a day or 2 days in an year ( assuming that mother and father are dead ) people give all sorts of reason and in a cut short manner perform a Hiranya Shrardham ( many people even do not remember the thithi also) and buzz off to work . ) A joke to enjoy on the time for shraardham .No one to be affended. only for jokesake.A proverb 'thasildar athu shrardham pola'It goes like that.In those days of British rule Most thashildars are brahmihns.One such Thashildar has asked the vathiar to come very early in the morning for performing shrardham.Vathiyar was ready.Thashildar has returned from night works belatedly.The shrardham started The RDO has sent a message.The thashildar is restless and asks the vathiyar to be precise.There was some trouble in his area The police officer ask for his advice.
He hears that the Collector is also to visit his place.With all that he asks the vathiyar to perfom the shradham himself and runs for his duty.
 
Namassadhasae.

Silver panchapathram, sombu etc. are quite OK for offering to pithru & visvedheva sthanams. At the time of first year ceremony (varusha aabdheegam) items of silver are offered. If the gruhasthan can afford, giving silver items every year, it is welcome for the beneficiaries. It all depends on the affordability and kala desa varthamanam. Vasthram, Swarnam, Rajatham, dhakshinai - all depends on the affordability of gruhasthas. Even a crore is given, the manthram is 'yath kinchith' only
and 'nama:' & 'na mamaa' (these two expressions are Sanskrit pls.) , without any ego by the giver.

The time prescribed for sradhdham is after madhyannikam. How can madhyannikam be done in the early morning. The more the start of the sradhdham is delayed, the better it is.

Above all, sradhdhai is important in performing sradhdham. 'Rest yatha sowkaryam' is the practical solution and conclusion.


அவரவர் இச்சையில் எவை எவை உற்றவை அவை தருவித்தருள் பெருமாளே!
 
I am illiterate on this But I am told that 'venpattu' should not be worn while doing theertha tharpanam etc.When we are doing tharpanam as part of shrardham how this is possible.please clear my doubt.
A clarification to my post itself .I got the answer from one Jadavallabar . Generally we use venpattu for performing devapooja. We dont wash it.Beause when it is drenched in water it loses its purity (MADI) So we want to be more careful that water is not allowed tobe springled on that knowingly or unknowingly.That is the reason we are not using Venpattu during doing tharpanam,Taking food ,and while answering nature's call.
 
In cotton dhoti the negativity will go by drenching in water. But in venpattu the negativity will never go by drenching in water. so the kartha will never use venpattu. The venpattu must be given to the sastrigals who are sitting as viswedevar and pithru 's.sthanam. on those days. according to their financial status.

Abisravanam of rig veda; sukla and krishna yajur veda and samavedam will be there while the sastrigals are taking meals. This must be only to avoid wavering mind in other unpleasant thougts while eating. Both the sastrigal's mind will go hearing the abisravana mantras.
 
Only sastrigals and the kartha's family can take srardha samayal, others should not take pithru sesham and so they will never come. bachlors are used to sit in vishnu elai meals daughter or daughter's are eligible to take meals in vishnu elai.

When nimanthrana brahmanals are about to leave the kartha's house The kartha asks them anna seshai hi kim kriyatham? ie what can we do with the left out meals etc. The brhmanals say Ishtai saha up pujyatham.You can eat it with people whom you consider near and dear to you , naturally the siblings of the family. In practice only the family members and gnathis take food with them.
 
Dear Wrongan ji,

I think it is correct as you said, but in custom I think this has been changed and stopped with karthas and gnathis and sahagothras. Anyhow, what I personally feel is only the karthas and gnathis have the rights to eat that also since they are the one involved in the karma and also in one or other way related to the respective pithru. How the sesham should be shared then with near and dear who does not have any sort of even knowing about the respective pithru?? I think this should be clarified even better to know it fully.


Pranams
 
Dear Wrongan ji,

I think it is correct as you said, but in custom I think this has been changed and stopped with karthas and gnathis and sahagothras. Anyhow, what I personally feel is only the karthas and gnathis have the rights to eat that also since they are the one involved in the karma and also in one or other way related to the respective pithru. How the sesham should be shared then with near and dear who does not have any sort of even knowing about the respective pithru?? I think this should be clarified even better to know it fully.


Pranams

I have given the shrardha mantram and its meaning only.The word ISTAI SAHA means whom you like or prefer.I do accept that I am not so much a competent person to give clarifications myself. But I will be searching for clarifictions when I happen to meet highly learned persons .I will not hesitate to expose my moudyam before persons having knowledge
 
Dear Wrongan ji,

I think it is correct as you said, but in custom I think this has been changed and stopped with karthas and gnathis and sahagothras. Anyhow, what I personally feel is only the karthas and gnathis have the rights to eat that also since they are the one involved in the karma and also in one or other way related to the respective pithru. How the sesham should be shared then with near and dear who does not have any sort of even knowing about the respective pithru?? I think this should be clarified even better to know it fully.


Pranams
What Shri Durgadasan states seems to be the present prevailing practice (sagOtra not sahagotrA). But the ancient smritis allowed a different practice, as may be seen from the following extract of The History of Dharmasastra by Mahamahopadhyaya Dr. P.V. Kane in the section dealing with "SrAddha":

He should then make according to his means presents (to the brah-
manas) of cows, land, gold, clothes, splendid beds and
whatever else was liked by the brahmanas or by the perfor-
mer Inmself or his father. He should not be stingy in his
presents. Then he should request the brahmanas to say
'svadhA' and they should do so. Then he should request the
brahmanas to pronounce the following benedictions and should
receive them from them while he faces the east. They are 'May
the pitrs be kind (not dreadful) to us' ; the brahmanas should
say 'so be it; 'May our family increase'; they should
say 'so be it'; 'May donors in my family prosper and also
(the study of) the Vedas and progeny and may these benedictions
come out true'; they should respond 'so be it'. He should
then remove the pindas and request the brahmanas to utter the
word 'svasti' and they should do so. The remains of the food
eaten by the brahmanas remain (unremoved & unwiped) till
the brahmanas leave. The remnants of food that lie on the ground
are the share of the group of slaves that were straight-forward
and not roguish (dishonest or shirkers). The performer holding
a vessel full of water and muttering the
verse 'vaje vaje' (Rg. VII. 38 8, Vaj S. IX 18, Tai S. I.7.8.2)
should touch the brahmanas with the tip of kusas and allow them
to depart. He should follow them out of his house for eight paces,
should circumambulate them, should then return with his
relatives, sons and wife, should then perform the daily Vaisvadeva
and balihoma. Then after Vaisvadeva he should together with
his relatives, sons, guests and servants partake of the food
that remains in the cooking pots after what was eaten by the
brahmanas.

The words "ishTai: saha" reflects this position, I feel.
 
Dear sir

Sringeri Mutt, Srirangam is helping brahmins to do their Sradham in vedic way. One magnanimous brahmin gave his house to the mutt having ground floor & first floor.

They have different kitchen on the ground and first floor with mixi, grinder separate for each sradham.

The mami (cook) comes in the morning. Everyday, they buy the item freshly except Curd, Milk which do not have dosham.

Mami can start cooking only 4 naligai after sunrise. The priest comes about 10.00am.

Whatever the balance material (rice, dall or anything) will be kept separately and given to the poor people once in a year. (means, they will not use the balance quantity for other sradham).

i do not know whether this post is relevant to this tread, but i wish to share my knowledge about the place where sradham is being done as per shastra and you can use it in case you need.
 
Namassadhasae.


Thanks for the information on the facility of performing sradhdham at Srirangam at Sringeri Mutt. The information will be of use to community members, who like to perform sradhdham at Srirangam.

I like to add that in Mylapore Sankara Mutt (Near Chithrakulam), earlier there were arrangements to perform only two sradhdhams at a time (facilities to perform sradhdhams by two parties). Just four months back, this facility is increased to 5 sradhdhams at a time (on any given day), to meet the demands of the public, at a nominal cost for the place.

I am sure various efforts are being made in this area and it is better these facilities are made known to the users attractively and the facilities made use of by the users fully.

It is suggested that places like this, may provide maximum facilities including vaidheegals, mami for cooking (A to Z in the conduct of a sradhdham) at nominal cost. There need to be qualitative and quantitative improvements in offering these services. Infact, this is a very great community service.

அவரவர் இச்சையில் எவை எவை உற்றவை
அவை தருவித்தருள் பெருமாளே!
 
...
I am sure various efforts are being made in this area and it is better these facilities are made known to the users attractively and the facilities made use of by the users fully.

It is suggested that places like this, may provide maximum facilities including vaidheegals, mami for cooking (A to Z in the conduct of a sradhdham) at nominal cost. There need to be qualitative and quantitative improvements in offering these services. Infact, this is a very great community service.
Shri Soundararajan,

I do not consider that spending a little more, once or twice a year, on Sraddhams is unaffordable to the majority of the members here. Hence it is alright even if the cook and vaideekars are charging reasonably well. I would on the contrary suggest that there can be subsidised rates for those who are unable to afford the regular charges and this may be cross-subsidised from the rest.

After all it was mainly due to the reluctance on the part of tambrams to pay more for vaideekans that many left that field. We must remember that also.

Having said all these, it is worthy to note that the Dharmasastras do not consider the cooking done by some member outside the family, as in order. They allow the performer of the Sraaddham, his wife, daughter-in-law etc., to cook the food for the 'brahmanas'; others are not allowed and such a Sraaddham - where others cook the food for being served to the brahmanas - does not seem to be valid as per the Dharmasastras!
 
Shri Soundararajan,

I do not consider that spending a little more, once or twice a year, on Sraddhams is unaffordable to the majority of the members here. Hence it is alright even if the cook and vaideekars are charging reasonably well. I would on the contrary suggest that there can be subsidised rates for those who are unable to afford the regular charges and this may be cross-subsidised from the rest.

After all it was mainly due to the reluctance on the part of tambrams to pay more for vaideekans that many left that field. We must remember that also.

Having said all these, it is worthy to note that the Dharmasastras do not consider the cooking done by some member outside the family, as in order. They allow the performer of the Sraaddham, his wife, daughter-in-law etc., to cook the food for the 'brahmanas'; others are not allowed and such a Sraaddham - where others cook the food for being served to the brahmanas - does not seem to be valid as per the Dharmasastras!

Having said all these, it is worthy to note that the Dharmasastras do not consider the cooking done by some member outside the family, as in order. They allow the performer of the Sraaddham, his wife, daughter-in-law etc., to cook the food for the 'brahmanas'; others are not allowed and such a Sraaddham - where others cook the food for being served to the brahmanas - does not seem to be valid as per the Dharmasastras!

Q. Are the dAyadhis permitted to cook, as per sastras? I know that they can partake the shradda meal.

Regards,
Swami
 
Having said all these, it is worthy to note that the Dharmasastras do not consider the cooking done by some member outside the family, as in order. They allow the performer of the Sraaddham, his wife, daughter-in-law etc., to cook the food for the 'brahmanas'; others are not allowed and such a Sraaddham - where others cook the food for being served to the brahmanas - does not seem to be valid as per the Dharmasastras!

Q. Are the dAyadhis permitted to cook, as per sastras? I know that they can partake the shradda meal.

Regards,
Swami

Shri Swami,

My memory is that the cooking of the food to the brahmanas is best done by the performer of Sraaddha himself; the addition of his immediate family itself seems to be a later allowance. Daayaatis can partake of the "SEsham" but curiously, many smritis enjoin that the SEsham be shared by the performer with his near and dear including the servants (caste not specified, but).

Anyway I will again go thorugh and post, in a day or two, if there is any change/s to be made to the above.
 
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