Caste system and Hindu society

Respectable members,

I am known to this forum as a person who seeks a casteless society. As the forum would have noticed, our friend, Sri. Senthil looks at the caste system with a different outlook. Since he hails from a different caste background to majority of the members here, he talks about customs and practices unknown to many of us. In the past we had the pleasure of Sow.Happy Hindu sharing some customs from her elders. I am sure, this forum has multitude of members who can coherently share the customs followed widely in the caste Brahmin community. I request members not to turn this thread in a debate analysing the merits/ demerits of caste system; we are doing that in many different threads.

So, do the different castes complement each other? What are the various caste based customs? If we find many different customs based on caste, region, language and other factors, then, what is 'Hindu custom'? I request the honourable members of this forum to enlighten us, please. Thank you.

Cheers!

R. Ramanujan said:

If you can't love a person whom you see, then how can you love GOD whom you have never seen.

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Sri.Ramanujan,

Is the quoted message directed towards me, personally? If it does, can you kindly explain the reason for directing such a message towards me, please? thank you. (this is not the first time I notice such messages from you directed overtly/covertly towards me. In one instance, you wrote such a message in reply to a message I wrote in compliment to your message!).

Cheers!

Raghy said:

Respectable members,

I am known to this forum as a person who seeks a casteless society. As the forum would have noticed, our friend, Sri. Senthil looks at the caste system with a different outlook. Since he hails from a different caste background to majority of the members here, he talks about customs and practices unknown to many of us. In the past we had the pleasure of Sow.Happy Hindu sharing some customs from her elders. I am sure, this forum has multitude of members who can coherently share the customs followed widely in the caste Brahmin community. I request members not to turn this thread in a debate analysing the merits/ demerits of caste system; we are doing that in many different threads.

So, do the different castes complement each other? What are the various caste based customs? If we find many different customs based on caste, region, language and other factors, then, what is 'Hindu custom'? I request the honourable members of this forum to enlighten us, please. Thank you.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Shri Raghy,

There is no single thing which can be called as "hindu custom". All the customs followed by all those who come under the umbrella term "hindu" will come under the term. Perhaps our members can furnish their account/s of various special customs they follow/have observed among other groups and this thread will then become a compilation useful for reference.

ohho no sir, it was just an inspirational msg. not directed towards anybody sir. ranganathar mela satyam. I was searching the appropriate thread I thought here it would be good. I just went to the bottom of the page and posted it. don't mistake me sir. my intentions are good. it was directed towards all those who don't treat humans beings with self respect and dignity. my mistake. will certainly be a bit careful in future. as far as the previous msg was concerned i misquoted u. u were rite. take care raghy ji.

To all,

pls abolish the caste system. This system deprives one who is in a lower strata of dignity and self respect. Most religions apart from hinduism are getting popular coz of equality among all humans and absence of cast ism. A child is born in tn and ppl inda mudivu ku varanga that whether that child is civilised or not by seeing whether she/he is born in a brah family or not. They are taught from chinna vayasu that she are lower and they should do only prof that their forefathers have done. They have no right to be drs. Cas. Engins. Islam and christanity is getting popular coz of this. Save our women folk. Pls marry the widows. Dont overlook their plight. Don't take dowry. Spend less in marriages. SAVE WOMEN FOLK SAVE HINDUISM.

ELLARUKKUM NANDRIGAL TERIVITHTA KOLGIREN.

முத்தாலம்மன் பொங்கல்

Respectable members,

I was reading about an interesting narration about a festival in one village near Madurai. Kindly read this.....

சிறப்பு என்னன்னா.. எந்த மூலையில இருக்குற கல்லுப்பட்டிக்காரானுகளயும் அன்னைக்குப்பாக்கலாம். நீ நாயக்கரு, செட்டியாரு, தேவரு, தலித்து அப்படின்னு எந்த வித்தியாசமும் இல்லாம ஊரே ஒண்ணா சேர்ந்து கொண்டாடுற திருவிழா இது.

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The narration (in the village Tamil!) by Sri.Vetri Selvan can be read from here...

??????????? » ???????????? ???????

Cheers!

Raghy said:

Respectable members,

I was reading about an interesting narration about a festival in one village near Madurai. Kindly read this.....The narration (in the village Tamil!) by Sri.Vetri Selvan can be read from here...

??????????? » ???????????? ???????

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Shri Raghy,

The "pongAla" (pongal in native Malayalam, pongu +aalai=fireplace for cooking) at Attukaal ஆற்றுகால் devi temple, Trivandrum, in the month of mASi has gone into the Guinness records as the largest congregation of women in the world. The crowd is increasing year after year (Guinness Worlds Records certified the crowd strength was 1.5 million when it was assessed for the first time in 1997. Last year - 2009 turnout was 2.5 million and this year-2010, according to festival organisers, it was estimated to be 3 million.) All castes including from other religions and foreigners too offer pongaala. This city, with all its drawbacks manages the festival nicely and silently.

sangom said:

Shri Raghy,

The "pongAla" (pongal in native Malayalam, pongu +aalai=fireplace for cooking) at Attukaal ஆற்றுகால் devi temple, Trivandrum, in the month of mASi has gone into the Guinness records as the largest congregation of women in the world. The crowd is increasing year after year (Guinness Worlds Records certified the crowd strength was 1.5 million when it was assessed for the first time in 1997. Last year - 2009 turnout was 2.5 million and this year-2010, according to festival organisers, it was estimated to be 3 million.) All castes including from other religions and foreigners too offer pongaala. This city, with all its drawbacks manages the festival nicely and silently.

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Sri.sangom Sir,

2.5 Million! That is a very big congregation! Kerala is managing crowds very well, from what I heard. For example, Sabarimala crowd is also increasing every year.

Cheers!

Raghy said:

Sri.sangom Sir,

2.5 Million! That is a very big congregation! Kerala is managing crowds very well, from what I heard. For example, Sabarimala crowd is also increasing every year.

Cheers!

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Yes, Sabarimala crowd is dispersed over 45 days or so, I think but the Pongala is a one-day congregation and gets over by the evening. The arrangements made to take the enormous crowd out of the city in about 4 or 5 hours in all available modes of transport is IMO the most commendable; provision of drinking water is also a real task. Amenities for primary requirements (calls of nature) are extended by all houses in the city for the devotees. All in all, it is a real event-management achievement.

Respectable members,

When we talk about strange practices in worship, we have to mention about Kodungallur Baghavathy - Bharani festival.

Worship could also take some of the weirdest forms, yet the worship that comes from the depths of the heart is what true worship is.

Buzz up!
A huge crowd thronged at the Kodungallur Bhagavathy temple, Kerala for the Bharani festival (March 26-March 29, 2009). It normally falls between the months of March and April.



A lot of festivities go with the Bharani festival in the Bhagavathy or [COLOR=#9A0003 ! important][COLOR=#9A0003 ! important]Goddess[/COLOR][/COLOR] Kali temple in Kodungallur.

The Bharani festival normally starts with the ritual called 'Kozhikkallu moodal' which involves the sacrifice of cocks and shedding of their blood which forms an important feature of this temple. The members of the Kodungallur Bhagavathy temple are allowed toparticipate in this ritual. It is to appease the Goddess Kali and her demons who take delight in offering blood.

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More here - Kodungallur Bhagavathy Temple | Bharani Festival | Temple Rituals | Kerala Temples - Oneindia Living

I thought only men could become a 'Velichappadu'; I see many women carrying the sword here.

Kodungalloor Bharani – Festival of Oracles, Thrissur, India, Kerala Videos

(more videos on the right side too).

Cheers!

Raghy said:

Respectable members,

When we talk about strange practices in worship, we have to mention about Kodungallur Baghavathy - Bharani festival.


More here - Kodungallur Bhagavathy Temple | Bharani Festival | Temple Rituals | Kerala Temples - Oneindia Living

I thought only men could become a 'Velichappadu'; I see many women carrying the sword here.

Kodungalloor Bharani – Festival of Oracles, Thrissur, India, Kerala Videos

(more videos on the right side too).

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Thanks for the links Raghy sir. Saw some more videos from the links on the right too. Very interesting stuff. Cud not help noticing that their weapons are also shaped like agricultural implements (some swords are shaped like sickles).

We talk abt how kings in tamilakam used brahmins for "controlled-power", but am sorta wondering how much the "vedic" dieties could have altered worship practices in south...

And there is no naga worship in the vedas. Yet in some temples the priests of naga kavus are 'brahmins'.

As such, which are the "vedic" dieties we worship today (seems like just a handful from those listed in the vedas). Even "Saraswati" was used for a river in the rig but is worshipped today as a human form (representing knowledge). Shiva was used an adjective to define qualities of Rudra. Lakshmi was also used as an adjective type of term to define something auspicious. Plus we do not worship most of the "proper vedic" gods like Varuna, Vayu, Dyaus, etc in human form.

There are some historical records of village sorcerors sanskritising themselves into brahmins. Am sorta wondering if the sanskritization events were somehow linked to the creation of puranic gods / popular gods / puranic definition of gods...

Interesting stuff indeed..

castism must be decimated if hinduism has to be saved frm missioneries and islamic orgs.. lets create a better india and a better world.

Raghy said:

Respectable members,

When we talk about strange practices in worship, we have to mention about Kodungallur Baghavathy - Bharani festival.

More here - Kodungallur Bhagavathy Temple | Bharani Festival | Temple Rituals | Kerala Temples - Oneindia Living

I thought only men could become a 'Velichappadu'; I see many women carrying the sword here.

Kodungalloor Bharani – Festival of Oracles, Thrissur, India, Kerala Videos

(more videos on the right side too).

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Dear Shri Raghy,

The Kodungalloor Bharani (KB) is unique in many ways. It has the dalits and adivasis worshipping the goddess and one part of such worship is by means of very, very obscene verses (songs), so much so that in day to day Malayalam the word "bharanippaattu" means abuse of the worst order!!

This worship used to be during the night of the bharani star. All high caste females used to stay very much indoors from the evening of that day because if a dalit or adivasi found any high caste female (irrespective of age) and placed his hands on her, she belonged to that person and got expelled from her caste of birth. This right had the royal assent and so was not questionable. The dalits/adivasis were extra vigilant to look out for any high caste female on that night during which they could freely roam about anywhere.

i remember having read, long ago, that the Kodungalloor temple was a place of worship of adivasis who were displaced from the area. Though they were willing to vacate their dwellings, they fought for the place of worship and the king ultimately entered into a treaty in terms of which the original worshippers were allowed to worship their favourite deity (Kali) one day in a year in their own fashion. As an additional sop the booty of captured women was also allowed.

Perhaps the web pages do not refer to these, or these customs have been discontinued with passage of time (during the last 50 years, not earlier, I am sure.).

Another interesting info. about that temple is that in a "deva prasna" conducted during the 1970's, it was revealed that a "kanya" has been sacrificed for creating the power of the idol. And so the prasna wanted that utmost care should be taken to follow all the rules and rituals meticulously since another such sacrifice was not possible to keep the deity's power undiminished. These are from my memory but I am sure these cannot be very much off the mark.

sangom said:

Dear Shri Raghy,

The Kodungalloor Bharani (KB) is unique in many ways. It has the dalits and adivasis worshipping the goddess and one part of such worship is by means of very, very obscene verses (songs), so much so that in day to day Malayalam the word "bharanippaattu" means abuse of the worst order!!

This worship used to be during the night of the bharani star. All high caste females used to stay very much indoors from the evening of that day because if a dalit or adivasi found any high caste female (irrespective of age) and placed his hands on her, she belonged to that person and got expelled from her caste of birth. This right had the royal assent and so was not questionable. The dalits/adivasis were extra vigilant to look out for any high caste female on that night during which they could freely roam about anywhere.

i remember having read, long ago, that the Kodungalloor temple was a place of worship of adivasis who were displaced from the area. Though they were willing to vacate their dwellings, they fought for the place of worship and the king ultimately entered into a treaty in terms of which the original worshippers were allowed to worship their favourite deity (Kali) one day in a year in their own fashion. As an additional sop the booty of captured women was also allowed.

Perhaps the web pages do not refer to these, or these customs have been discontinued with passage of time (during the last 50 years, not earlier, I am sure.).

Click to expand...

So the law most apparently did not depend on the dharmashastras. The king seems to have passed a law which his people themselves wanted.

Another interesting info. about that temple is that in a "deva prasna" conducted during the 1970's, it was revealed that a "kanya" has been sacrificed for creating the power of the idol. And so the prasna wanted that utmost care should be taken to follow all the rules and rituals meticulously since another such sacrifice was not possible to keep the deity's power undiminished. These are from my memory but I am sure these cannot be very much off the mark.

Click to expand...

Reminds me of a Kalibangan Seal which depicts two men holding their swords above the neck of a woman. Supposedly these people used to decorate a female and then offer her as a human sacrifice for 'shakti'. Apart from female figurines, fire altar pits were also found in Kalibangan. Some suggest that they must have followed a combination of both, fire as well as idol worship. Which may have been a common feature in its surrounding areas also. Perhaps they were the early "shaktas".

Regards.