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Trance

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renuka

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Dear All

I want to ask a question or two regarding the phenomenon called Trance.
I have witness many go into trance during festivals and in temples and this one individual i had seen had come into Hanuman trance.
His behaviour changed and his facial features also changed and mouth resembled a primates mouth.

Many say divine powers do not enter human bodies and its just in the mind but how can even features change if its all in the mind?

Remember even Padmapadha had becomed "Narasimha like" to save Adi Shankaracharya from being beheaded by the Kalabhairava Cult follower.
Give feedback please.
 
Trance is a semi-conscious state. People behave the way the believe in, but not become what they believe in.

Don't trust all cock and bull stories.

kodiyil ondru nadappathai, yavaralum kandunara iyaladhu. anaal, adhu mattume unmai. all others are frauds.
 
Trance is a semi-conscious state. People behave the way the believe in, but not become what they believe in.

Don't trust all cock and bull stories.

kodiyil ondru nadappathai, yavaralum kandunara iyaladhu. anaal, adhu mattume unmai. all others are fraud



Yes.
Mostly, the persons who go into trance are weak minded ones.The trance is a sort of delirium. The frenzy situation created by dazzling lights, terrific beats and rhythm, songs and instrumental sound etc whip up a frenzy in the these type of people. many times this is aggravated or increased by lack of sleep,or skipping the usual sleep cycle.
I have seen these trances many times.The same persons were all quite and calm usually.I have felt their body and found that the concerned persons were not able to control themselves for sometime.They come back to sense after sprinkling water,or some other gesture to consciously bring them back to the present.The subconscious sense erupts sometimes, and out comes the predictions -oracle like.

The hypnotic gesture by the conductor(s) is also causing the trance.
(The mass prayers are examples to this)

In some scenes, there are some vested interests to cause such delirium to exploit the gullible. There are many faking trances also_Only the experienced can distinguish that.

In Saasthapreeti events, there was a tradition that "Saastha" has to "appear" then only Bhajans can be wound up and prasadam be distributed.( Usual goers know there are certain particular bhajan songs with ascending rhythm for bringing this tempo) So sometimes even after going into late night, if "genuine Swami" donot "appear". some experienced clever one will take the responsiblility on him to bring the Swami!!!

It is better to keep those things like that and allow so as far they remain some innocent entertainment suitable to that occasion.

Greetings.
 
I hasten to agree with Sri Suryakasyapa and Sri pannavalan. Trance denotes the states of mind of a person. i have seen in younger days a person who handles monkey by taking it to streets etc regularly and being with monkey altimes his face slowly with a disntinctive change in facial .
 
I do agree that trance is a state of altered sensorium where subconsious mind dominates but in Malaysia Thaipusam in Batu Caves Kuala Lumpur is very grand and can witness many being induced into a trance state by temple priest(Non Brahmin preist).
Once induced into trance piercing of the body is done under non sterile conditions and no bleeding , no injury , no scar and no infection is seen.
Even those who had done firewalking have no burns wound at all.
It surely has to be divine intervention isnt it?
How else can we explain?
 
Dr. Renuka ji,

As you could feel, divine interventions do exists when people involve in spiritual activities (as per your observation in Batu Cave Thai Poosam festival). I too have seen a lot like thin in Chennai.

I believe supernatural powers can not be tested for its practicality and can not be identified with scientific reasons.

Though human beings are doing scientific/technological wonders, plenty of universal things would remain beyond human experience.

Some of us as much educated, smart and intelligent humans many not accept the existence of supernatural divine powers and may consider them as some sort of practices to sting people.

I think, Professor Nara would be able to analyse such peculiar happenings and can help us to understand what is what?
 
Dr. Renuka ji,

As you could feel, divine interventions do exists when people involve in spiritual activities (as per your observation in Batu Cave Thai Poosam festival). I too have seen a lot like this in Chennai.

I believe supernatural powers can not be tested for its practicality and can not be identified with scientific reasons.

Though human beings are doing scientific/technological wonders, plenty of universal things would remain beyond human experience.

Some of us as much educated, smart and intelligent humans may not accept the existence of supernatural divine powers and may consider them as some sort of practices to sting people.

I think, Professor Nara would be able to analyse such peculiar happenings and can help us to understand what is what?
 
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Dear RaviJi,

You know we actually think quite alike.

I feel God accepts the honest prayer of a devotee which ever method he/she chooses to do so.
There can be no so called scientific explanation I can safely bet which can explain why the Kavadi bearers who pierce their bodies do not get infected or injured or even scarred.
When the metal skewers are removed from the body and vibuthi applied to the site,the wound closes instantly.
So great is the love of God for his devotee.
 
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Dear RaviJi,

You know we actually think quite alike.

I feel God accepts the honest prayer of a devotee which ever method he/she chooses to do so.
There can be no so called scientific explanation I can safely bet which can explain why the Kavadi bearers who pierce their bodies do not get infected or injured or even scarred.
When the metal skewers are removed from the body and vibuthi applied to the site,the wound closes instantly.
So great is the love of God for his devotee.

Offcourse

GOD is great and powers are supernatural
Bhaktha is great and dedications are extraordinary
Bakhi is the greatest and is the mantra of life

Whether its spiritual or just True Love between a boy and a girl that leads to all sort of dedications.



 
Dear RaviJi,

You know we actually think quite alike.

I feel God accepts the honest prayer of a devotee which ever method he/she chooses to do so.
There can be no so called scientific explanation I can safely bet which can explain why the Kavadi bearers who pierce their bodies do not get infected or injured or even scarred.
When the metal skewers are removed from the body and vibuthi applied to the site,the wound closes instantly.
So great is the love of God for his devotee.

There was and is -(it is very minimal now )- a ritual called 'Garudan Thookkam" in certain Temples in Kerala, wherein a devotee is hung from a moving crane by a hook pierced into his back. The moving crane( or a pillar like structure) is then circumbulated around the temple once or thrice with the devotee hanging.

Here also ,the piercings do not become sceptic.The vibhhoti, kumkum and such temple prasadams are applied.

The person undergoing the thookkamm may not be the one who vowed and offered.He may be the special trained professional for that. He undertakes vrata for a fixed no of days. Massages the part of the skin where the hook is to be pierced, with certain medicated oil..The skin is thus made loose from the flesh. After perfecting this, if pierced, there will not be blood.

It is all matter of belief and faith. Person who is faithful and devoted sees divine intervention. Person who does not believe/ partly believes , may try to see scientific reason and explanation.

A similar method was reportedly adopted by some smugglers to hide gold and drugs smuggled through special cavities and folds made in their skin to fool searchings(of course before x ray checking).

So all is on faith and conviction.

Just because we do not like something, it need not be taken as wrong, and those who like that need not be opposed.

Just because we like something ,it need not be right, and those who do not like that need not be fought against.

Let us live and let live----And Let us be allowed to Live peacefully.


Greetings
 
Sri.Suryakasyapa Sir,

The 'garudan thookam' as mentioned by you was performed by one of the American natives tribes too; I don't recall which tribe though. In one of the Louis 'L Amour books, he explained that ceremony in detail. The hooks, in that case were applied in the chest and thighs.

Cheers!
 
Dear friends,
In our own house when people in kitchen sees milk boiling and cominup in the stove and even if they do not get any PAKKAD or towel they take the hot vesselin hand and keep it down. Even I have seenmy mother doing so. At that time their ohad is not burnt. At the same time when asked to take down a boiling water vesel down she could not. May be I think it is the prime goal of taking the vessel down had in mind and hence there was no burning sensation.

I have also heard of a story of a mother who climbed steep hill to reach her son in the evening (during the rule of Sivaji). Because the fort on the hill top used to be closed by evening. Next dfay Sivaji (the king) knowing the lady climbed through steep hill called her and asked to do the same. She fainted instantly seeing the steepness and could not believe she had come the same route.

So I think these are all mental thoughts which comes out as trance. No trance so far has given solution to any national or regional problems whichis beneficial to entire humanity.
 
Dear friends,
In our own house when people in kitchen sees milk boiling and cominup in the stove and even if they do not get any PAKKAD or towel they take the hot vesselin hand and keep it down. Even I have seenmy mother doing so. At that time their ohad is not burnt. At the same time when asked to take down a boiling water vesel down she could not. May be I think it is the prime goal of taking the vessel down had in mind and hence there was no burning sensation.

I have also heard of a story of a mother who climbed steep hill to reach her son in the evening (during the rule of Sivaji). Because the fort on the hill top used to be closed by evening. Next dfay Sivaji (the king) knowing the lady climbed through steep hill called her and asked to do the same. She fainted instantly seeing the steepness and could not believe she had come the same route.

So I think these are all mental thoughts which comes out as trance. No trance so far has given solution to any national or regional problems whichis beneficial to entire humanity.
 
Dear K Subramanian,:pray2:
You cannot compare the state of being in trance with a situation in the kitchen :confused:. I think it is the feeling that a devotee get from the vibration of the Divine Lord, Some people cannot control this contact with the Divine and they start to cry( happy tears) or dance with the sound of the Meelam.I have seen Brahmin priest in trance during a MAHA KUMBABHISEGAM of an AMMEN Kovil. The Great Vibrations when the Chief Priest took the Main Diety's Kalasam , round the kovil with the sound of Meelam ,and entered the Kovil to pour this Holy water, to which Mantras had been receited for days,This moment is filled with BAKTHI AND SHAKTI , everyone around can feel the Great Vibrations of the Lord ,You see at this very moment some people just forget their whereabout and we call this Trance.

So trance so far do not give solutions to any national or regional problems.I think
IT IS JUST A PERSONAL SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE:pray:
 
Sow.Sri.Madhavi Eswari said:_

"So trance so far do not give solutions to any national or regional problems.I think
IT IS JUST A PERSONAL SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE:pray: "

So, apparently, our national and regional problems are that complicated, even the gods in trance can't give solutions! (Sorry Sri. Madhavi Eswai, I could not resist slipping in this comment! Sorry).
 
Sow.Sri.Madhavi Eswari said:_

"So trance so far do not give solutions to any national or regional problems.I think
IT IS JUST A PERSONAL SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE:pray: "

So, apparently, our national and regional problems are that complicated, even the gods in trance can't give solutions! (Sorry Sri. Madhavi Eswai, I could not resist slipping in this comment! Sorry).


Raghy Sir,

'trance so far do not give solutions to any national or regional problems' Those are words that I quoted from Subramaniam Sir.

I think that when it comes to a subject like trance we cannot mix it with other subjects like politics or any others.

I think it happens when one individual is deeply engrossed in his prayers to the DIVINE LORD . It is a state where some devotees find themselves in unknowingly , I think those who can MASTER their feelings & Spiritual vibration should understand those on the other side.Each and everyone of us has a different soul evolution stage .
The communication/ communion with the Lord is different for everyone.
I am just writing what I feel.I am sry if it was misinterpreted
 
I have seen people in sulawesi performing trance in a travel show. In the following link you can see that.
http://www.iias.nl/nl/29/IIAS_NL29_27.pdf From this link, I can see trance boosts confidence.

Just came across the following in google. It looks to me from the following link trance helped suffering people to express their sufferings, reasons and possible solutions to their superiors. When they are in trance mode, superiors have to listen to them anyway :)

The following link is the source.
Tamil Language and Murukan Worship in South Africa

Trance

Trance is a part of worship of Lord Murukan. Trance is an important factor which reinforced fear of doing wrong and inspired bhakti among devotees. Trance enabled Tamils to escape from their miseries, sufferings and difficulties under the hands of their own Indian supervisors (called sirdars) and white masters in their daily toil.

This is a part of Muruka worship where the devotee enters into another level of consciousness, losing his body-consciousness. During kāvaţi festival when he carries the kāvaţi singing Tamil songs, the devotee goes into trance. The abnormal behaviour of the devotee in terms of power, strength and knowledge conveyed in Tamil, developed fear on one side and faith on the other to many devotees of Lord Murukan. This is a direct experience between the trance person and the devotee, based on the questions and the answers exchanged.

Trance of this sort served like a ship carrying the devotees freely from their sufferings to a safe place. The trance person used to answer many of the questions raised in Tamil language by pointing out their mistakes boldly and even guided them, showing the ways of atonement with remedial measures. Sometimes the trance person called vēlan explained the reasons for their sufferings in detail to their satisfaction, bringing out their secrets which made them feel surprised, as nobody knew them.

The remedial measures varied from personal discipline to offerings to the temple. Some devotees were reminded of their forgotten vows. All these experiences increased faith and commitment to Lord Murukan. In addition to that, the trance person used to proclaim openly some of the secret information of the supervisors and masters who terrified them. The masters were afraid to punish those devotees and the trance persons as they feared retribution.

Sometimes the trance-person used to guide some of the masters when they had difficulties. So trance helped the devotees of Murukan as a protection and prepared them for their future through faith and devotion to Lord Murukan. In all these communications it was the Tamil language which was used and not English.

A French film maker Jean Rough did a study among a tribal community called Haouka (Songhay) and their cult in Ghana and documented how migrant workers resolved their adaptation to a colonial urban environment through trance. In the same way the Tamil migrants also used this trance in making adjustments to their lives suitable to their environments.

Piercing

The following text is from this link.
http://everywheremag.com/articles/884

It certainly appears that the men are not really in much pain. They are said to be in a semi trance state so they don’t feel it. I honestly think that the fact that they have been fasting for 8 days plays a big role in this whole piercing business. They are probably already hovering between reality and trance due to lack of food. Then you have family members chanting in your ears, therefore making you even more delusional. Finally, the fact that they have been fasting means that they have lost weight; their skin is already hanging loser than normal. It's the lose skin that is being pierced, which may be less painful. There is no (or very little) blood that I saw. The people doing the piercing do know that they are doing, they find the right pieces of lose skin and pinch them and pierce the hook through the skin, they stay clear of any veins - they are professionals! However, I will admit that I never did see any sterilization of the hooks being conducted, so that was a bit disturbing, but no one really seemed to care.

Cheers!
 
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