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Inter caste marriage - problems

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srivatsans121

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Hi all,

Am new to this forum. Need your suggestions.

I am tamil brahmin (Iyengar) loving a Non-brahmin girl. We are planning to get married soon and our families are okay with the marriage. However I have the following questions and problems.

1. After marriage can I perform rituals(like tarpanam etc).

2. If the marriage happens in our way, will the girl's father be able to participate in the marriage rituals. (Will the girl be allowed to get married by sitting in her father's lap ?).

Please let me know your advice/suggestions.
 
About Q.2. I was at an inter-caste marriage involving a non-brahmin recently. And they had a upanayanam ceremony done for the non-brahmin father-in-law in question just before the marriage. And then the rest of the marriage rituals happened in our way (all the important traditional rituals of the other side were also incorporated to ensure that their side was also satisfied)
 
Performing Upanayanam on a non-brahmin mature adult alone does not entitle him to perform brahminical traditional vedic rituals. Does this gentleman know anything about brahminical culture, rites, rituals, performing various poojas etc. It is this kind of unimaginative short-cuts that hurt brahminism. Why can't he just go ahead with a registered marriage and a reception and get along with life.
 
apsarathy said:
Performing Upanayanam on a non-brahmin mature adult alone does not entitle him to perform brahminical traditional vedic rituals. Does this gentleman know anything about brahminical culture, rites, rituals, performing various poojas etc. It is this kind of unimaginative short-cuts that hurt brahminism. Why can't he just go ahead with a registered marriage and a reception and get along with life.
Click to expand...

Well said. A registered marriage will be ideal.
 
srivatsans121 said:
Hi all,

Am new to this forum. Need your suggestions.

I am tamil brahmin (Iyengar) loving a Non-brahmin girl. We are planning to get married soon and our families are okay with the marriage. However I have the following questions and problems.

1. After marriage can I perform rituals(like tarpanam etc).

2. If the marriage happens in our way, will the girl's father be able to participate in the marriage rituals. (Will the girl be allowed to get married by sitting in her father's lap ?).

Please let me know your advice/suggestions.
Click to expand...
Hi
Everything depends on how you look at issues in life.

Anything can be a problem if you view it that way.

Tarpanam Rituals you perform is to remember a person who has passed away.If you believe in it go ahead after marriage with someone you have married.

You require nobodys approval for that.

If you have decided to marry a girl from another caste, you can hardly keep her parents out of it. So you might as well let the girl sit on her fathers lap one

last time at the time of marriage if your iyengar conventions say so.

Pl do whatever common sense and conscience tells you to do without guilt feelings.

I am an iyengar by birth.

This is my honest opinion.
 
srivatsans121 said:
Hi all,

Am new to this forum. Need your suggestions.

I am tamil brahmin (Iyengar) loving a Non-brahmin girl. We are planning to get married soon and our families are okay with the marriage. However I have the following questions and problems.

1. After marriage can I perform rituals(like tarpanam etc).

2. If the marriage happens in our way, will the girl's father be able to participate in the marriage rituals. (Will the girl be allowed to get married by sitting in her father's lap ?).

Please let me know your advice/suggestions.
Click to expand...

Save the money and embarassment . Do a simple marriage and live happily. You didnt consider all these when you were in love..Why do it now for the sake of others??
 
apsarathy said:
Performing Upanayanam on a non-brahmin mature adult alone does not entitle him to perform brahminical traditional vedic rituals. Does this gentleman know anything about brahminical culture, rites, rituals, performing various poojas etc. It is this kind of unimaginative short-cuts that hurt brahminism. Why can't he just go ahead with a registered marriage and a reception and get along with life.
Click to expand...
What to do, Partha Sir? Some sAsthrigaLs are ready to perform any short-cut method, if they are paid well! :popcorn:

I have seen a wedding in which an American father and his brothers had short-cut poonool ceremony, before the wedding

of his son with a brahmin girl. Also, 12 sAstrigaLs were present for the nAndhi ceremony. :cool:
 
srivatsans121 said:
Hi all,

Am new to this forum. Need your suggestions.

I am tamil brahmin (Iyengar) loving a Non-brahmin girl. We are planning to get married soon and our families are okay with the marriage. However I have the following questions and problems.

1. After marriage can I perform rituals(like tarpanam etc).

2. If the marriage happens in our way, will the girl's father be able to participate in the marriage rituals. (Will the girl be allowed to get married by sitting in her father's lap ?).

Please let me know your advice/suggestions.
Click to expand...

It is up to you...You need to set up a priest who will do as per your suggestion...

Our community is wilting...We are all there to do the Tharpanam for the Community!! Good luck to all of us!!
 
Raji Ram said:
What to do, Partha Sir? Some sAsthrigaLs are ready to perform any short-cut method, if they are paid well! :popcorn:

I have seen a wedding in which an American father and his brothers had short-cut poonool ceremony, before the wedding

of his son with a brahmin girl. Also, 12 sAstrigaLs were present for the nAndhi ceremony. :cool:
Click to expand...


I have seen many such weddings. LOL
 
Obstinateostrich said:
About Q.2. I was at an inter-caste marriage involving a non-brahmin recently. And they had a upanayanam ceremony done for the non-brahmin father-in-law in question just before the marriage. And then the rest of the marriage rituals happened in our way (all the important traditional rituals of the other side were also incorporated to ensure that their side was also satisfied)
Click to expand...

Welcome Obstinateji. Good post.
If you have the right priest (Or lot of money) anything is possible.
 
apsarathy said:
Performing Upanayanam on a non-brahmin mature adult alone does not entitle him to perform brahminical traditional vedic rituals. Does this gentleman know anything about brahminical culture, rites, rituals, performing various poojas etc. It is this kind of unimaginative short-cuts that hurt brahminism. Why can't he just go ahead with a registered marriage and a reception and get along with life.
Click to expand...

Good suggestion, but obviously Srivarsanji wants a religious wedding.
I would not discourage anyone from marriage. The customs are there to facilitate that.
 
srivatsans121 said:
Hi all,

Am new to this forum. Need your suggestions.

I am tamil brahmin (Iyengar) loving a Non-brahmin girl. We are planning to get married soon and our families are okay with the marriage. However I have the following questions and problems.

1. After marriage can I perform rituals(like tarpanam etc).

2. If the marriage happens in our way, will the girl's father be able to participate in the marriage rituals. (Will the girl be allowed to get married by sitting in her father's lap ?).

Please let me know your advice/suggestions.
Click to expand...

Congratulation. You need to talk with both the parents and get their expectation. Then you need to find a priest who can facilitate all that. The priest must be persuaded (show a lot of money) to carry out your wishes. The rituals and cultural process can be molded to your need.

If all else fails an Arya samaj wedding or registered marriage may be the option.
 
I feel members should give their blessings to Srivatsan cos he is going to get married soon.

After all these days we can even see in forum matrimonial section how many TB males are almost 40 and still looking for bride.

Here he is going to get married..found a match and still wants to follow some basic tradition...what is wrong with that?

I might not be a TB but at least lets not judge this members actions of deviating from the norm and wish him best of luck and help him out with his query so that he will lead a happy life.

Nothing is really lost if we alter a bit of tradition..after all even the Mangalsutra a.k.a Thali is not a Vedic tradition and is a later cultural addition..so even ancients adapted ..nothing was ever static and nothing will ever remain static.
 
prasad1 said:
Congratulation. You need to talk with both the parents and get their expectation. Then you need to find a priest who can facilitate all that. The priest must be persuaded (show a lot of money) to carry out your wishes. The rituals and cultural process can be molded to your need.

If all else fails an Arya samaj wedding or registered marriage may be the option.
Click to expand...
Prasadji,
Priests are the least bothered about the caste of the persons getting married.It is only economics that dictates.

Rituals are moderated to suit the caste. I think that is a healthy move.

In intercaste weddings , priests combine some aspects of rituals of both castes. Multiple priests can always be got to perform as per requirements of different castes.

Registration of marriages is anyway been made mandatory for all marriages.

India has become more liberal over the years.
 
prasad1 said:
I have seen many such weddings. LOL
Click to expand...
Very true, Prasad Sir. :)

The only son of my cousin sister got married to a girl from Thailand and the priest made her the adopted daughter

of the groom's mAmA, changed her name to Srividhya. Thus she 'became' a brahmin in a few hours! :cool:
 
Usually according to the government rule, when a girl marries a higher caste, she is automatically converted to the caste and loose all concessions of reservation. Like that, if she is willing to follow Brahmin customs and no one on her side is a hindrance, you can still to do whatever you wanted to do since now a days Sastrigal are more minded than want to preserve Pristine culture. This is definitely a setback happening more in Brahmin community than any other. All have become money minded.
 
sowmyasubbaraman said:
Usually according to the government rule, when a girl marries a higher caste, she is automatically converted to the caste and loose all concessions of reservation. Like that, if she is willing to follow Brahmin customs and no one on her side is a hindrance, you can still to do whatever you wanted to do since now a days Sastrigal are more minded than want to preserve Pristine culture. This is definitely a setback happening more in Brahmin community than any other. All have become money minded.
Click to expand...
It is not necessarily wrong to be money conscious if the alternative is penury and starvation.

Brahmins themselves have moderated their stance towards accepting other communities . What they can do is definitely welcome girls who join their community by

marrying TB boys who are finding it difficult to get educated working girls. Many girls from other communities are prepared to modify their lifestyle to suit brahmin

families.Many other caste girls are losing the benefits given to their community due to marrying brahmin boys. So it is a sacrifice for them.We need to be liberal in

acceptance of girls from other castes. They may turn out to be better fits into our brahmin families and may go the extra mile to adopt our puritanical lifestyle -

specially vegetarianism and rituals.I know many other caste/religion girls who have married brahmins more for love than any other considerations. We ought to bless

them .

I have even a servant maid[ cook] of other caste thirty plus who now slowly learnt to talk brahmin tamil after association with us and cooks excellent vegetarian food.

She is more than a daughter for me.She is working for her graduation in open school.No one would believe she is not a brahmin if they judge her by her looks ,talk or

dress. All this talk of brahmin exclusiveness needs to be set aside for a more inclusive society.
 
In Mauritius we have People from different community marrying and it's so beautiful watching two cultures together. Marriage vows are more important step than the rituals associated with wedding.so combine all the rituals and get the blessing of all.good luck
 
You are right Madam. Of late, Vadhyars and Sastrigals have become very flexible. They would perform what the clients want rather than what the sastrams say! On the one hand the boy wants an inter-caste marriage (I am not questioning their prerogative) and at the same time want to continue with the brahminical traditions. I doubt if it will work. Suppose, if their family has a tradition of Sumangaliprarthanai, will this girl will be able to do it or will our sastrams allow her to perform this ceremony? Would like to have the cake and eat it too!
 
apsarathy said:
You are right Madam. Of late, Vadhyars and Sastrigals have become very flexible. They would perform what the clients want rather than what the sastrams say! On the one hand the boy wants an inter-caste marriage (I am not questioning their prerogative) and at the same time want to continue with the brahminical traditions. I doubt if it will work. Suppose, if their family has a tradition of Sumangaliprarthanai, will this girl will be able to do it or will our sastrams allow her to perform this ceremony? Would like to have the cake and eat it too!
Click to expand...

Yes you buy a larger cake, that way you eat half and keep the other half. I have seen Caucasian German lady following all ceremony even way back in 1958 in India. Our shastras are living documents, some people are stuck in 16th century. To them nothing is right with the modern world. Too bad, the world marches on. Who is going to police the society, and with what? Like Renukaji pointed out the thali itself is a later variation, no other Hindu follows that practise. Nobody other than Tamilians use 9-yard sari either. Customs change, we have to adapt or lose family members. If a son marries a non-TB do you disown him, or adapt to include him and his family.
 
hi

i dont want write about in this thread....already we discussed a lot....once we get into inter caste/inter religion marriages...

we no need to follow any brahminical tradtions....THIS IS CALLED TRISANGU SWARGAM.....OTHERWISE ...IT IS CALLED..

NA GHAR KA..NA GHAT KA.....purely personal choice...follow or not?....who cares in this world?....
 
Marriage has become a convenience rather than a sacred ritual. It is not bad to look for money.But money should not be the prime motive for marriage.Why we have to preserve the tradition is if this world destroyed by nuclear bomb, the only option is to do Yaga and Yanghya to revive this earth to original condition. Because of inter caste, inter religious, intercontinental marriages, we slowly forget to preserve our old tradition. Manthram is not like science. It requires purity and selfless purpose to work out. Therefore if not immediately on a later time, it will definitely have serious repercussions. But if I say all these, nobody is going to support me. In Gita, Krishna is telling about how rain is made because of Yaga and Yanghya. Anyway, I wish all prosperity to the married couple. Several times, I felt that if I had been in my birth village, I would have been more peaceful without being exposed to outside world which has become rotten including myself because of a lot of constraints to follow our ancient tradition. I am not able to follow even what my father followed. My father never followed like his Grant father. Even I am not able to get all the better knowledge from my father in law because my scientific ego makes me think traditions are foolish.But in the longer term , looking for deeper cause and if you look at the root of every problem, adjustability and compromise with our principles is the key for al disasters.
 
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