Who Will Save Hinduism

There was a thread on doing some customary ritual sitting on dining table, which makes this point abundantly clear. We do not know the reason for Hindu customs.

So why has Hinduism, the oldest faith that predates recorded human history which laid the foundations of human interaction and laws of community living, codifications of communal good and bad and the human code of conduct, elements of which were later encoded in other religions which followed more than 4000 years later, the mother of every single eastern religion, is today herself being reduced to the point of comical ludicrousness, devoid of any logic, sense and resemblance to the original intention.


Bollywood bhajans in temples and even very holy places like Vaishnodevi play bhajans set to the score of some popular Bollywood songs. Dancing marriage party lights decorating gods, electrical drums for aarti in temples and so on. Politicians involved in murder, rape, extortion and fraud walking around in saffron robes garnering votes from huge educated masses who feel they are the true saviors of our faith!!!!!!. Highly educated corporate executives sing their praises. Hand phone toting pundits making calls in between chanting mantras that have learned been learnt in rote with no clue to its deeper meanings. Since you don’t, why should they care?


Humanity is dying on the streets out of hunger and disease, while some are making 10 million dollar crowns for temple deities with 70,000 diamonds imbedded in 35 kilo gold, and a 2.5 million dollar ruby embedded into it, for sure hoping that this will bring them rewards and priority club class service on the way to the doors of heaven. Suddenly temples are being judged by the amount of gold and diamonds they have, and pilgrims flock to see gold and diamond studded gods. The more the gold and diamonds the greater perceived greatness of the temple. God got lost somewhere behind all the glitter. They think god can be bought, and that piety is embodied in jewelry.


Why have we gone so horribly wrong? How did it all happen? How did we loose our sanity? When did our common sense and wisdom collapse? When and how did this rot set in?
http://www.esamskriti.com/essay-chapters/Who-will-save-Hinduism-1.aspx

wonderful post. should work as an eye opener.

The original article cited in the Opening Post offers some reasons.
http://www.esamskriti.com/essay-chap...induism-1.aspx

While I do not share all the views expressed in that article some of the analysis seem to be on the mark to me. The author says about current threats to Hinduism :

1. Internal threat:-Corrosion and mutation of the core philosophy,
2. External threat: - When people start performing actions that are not in sync with what the religion intends. The actions are driven by wrong or dangerous interpretations

In my view, the real threat these days is the exploitation of what may be considered the strengths of the religion. These are that it is not founded, it does not have a single book ,it accepts others who are not followers of Hinduism fully and lacks any commandments.

Though it is not founded what is called Hinduism by outsiders is a way of life guided by a seemingly complex concept called Dharma whose interpretation in a given situation requires knowledge.

There are specific issues

1. Today's Hinduism has become all about superstition.
2.Many Hindus condone corruption though a small number may participate. Karma and Dharma Bhoomi of yesteryears is seemingly growing to be a capital of Adharma.
3.Most of the people in upper middle class (and some of middle and lower class in terms of economics) are completely taken by the culture of the West and are trying to follow the worst of the western culture with a vengeance.
4. Formally educated people are illiterate when it comes to understanding the significance of any of the practices. Worse yet, they make up some silly theories of their own using terms found in our scriptures without ever bothering to understand any of the basic tenets.
5. Many of the Matams including Sri Sankara Matams have taken up more of rituals than focus on teaching the significance of various aspects of Hinduism

A good set of teachers need to be groomed by various Matams to get people away from adharmic activities. That will be a good start.

I feel humans should start detaching themselves from religion to actually know their true selves.

Nature or God would have surely designed a human to not SELF DESTRUCT.

One does not need Religion to know this fact.

It isn't actually hard at all to lead a simple peaceful life.

There is no acute need to save any Religion..be it Hinduism or Islam or Christianity...in fact in the process of saving Religion and Culture humans move away from the humanity.

One needs to only save themselves from harming self and others.

There is nothing too hard about this..even animals know how to follow their instinct..so why is it so hard for a human and the need to constantly drag in religion as their identity.

What is the true identity of a Human?

Does it include religion?

I do not think so.

Dear renukaji,

My thoughts on this:

1. The inexorable march of time did and does several things to the lives on earth. While life evolves many get destroyed also never to appear again in the form in which they were before vanishing. Every day I remember the harmless and chirping ஊர்க்குருவி which once used to visit my garden every day in the morning. It is stopped visiting long back. And there are no ஊர்க்குருவி seen these days. That beautiful little life form has just vanished from the face of the earth. I feel terribly sad and get angry at my inability to do anything about it. Scientists say the radiation from the micro wave towers destroy the sheath covering the fetus inside the egg of a ஊர்க்குருவி. And that leaves me angry with Technology and Science for destroying my little harbinger of happiness every morning. I am but helpless.

2. Man , as we know, is on the top of the pyramid because he remains at the pinnacle of evolution. He has a mind. The mind is worse than a monkey and it plays a lot of mischief. Though the nature remains whatever it is despite all the tinkering we do with it in the periphery, human beings' capacity for mischief is immense.

3. We looked somewhat deep at an atom and what did we make out of it? A bomb. A bomb the combined effect of all that is held in stock today is enough to destroy the entire human race and earth several times over and leave the earth inhospitable.

4. As we had the bomb so we used it once with irrepairable consequences.
There is no way we can ask and find out how the japanese child which was walking, holding the hand of its father, in the central square of Hiroshima felt when it instantly evaporated in thin air when the bomb hit the ground zero. Was it painful and if so how painful? I am disturbed by these thoughts.

5. Knowing the mischief potential of the human mind, we perhaps invented the religion and God as a counter weight. And the solution has largely held. If despite the religion and its moral compulsions such things can happen what if there is no religion and no God and no good and bad?

Why disturb the equilibrium, however tenacious it may be?

Yes, the human mind may feel constrained and suffocated by the need to follow the religion and live with the discipline imposed. But practically it helps to stay alive for the day and look forward to a future-even if it is an uncertain future. Does it not?

When Alwar sang "பல்லாண்டு பல்லாண்டு பல்லாயிரத்தாண்டு................" how thoughtful he had been. Did these thoughts crossed his mind? I wonder.

As Shri.Vaagmi correctly put it there is always a balance between the good and the bad, though the tilt may be in favor of the good or the bad depending on the times. I believe that this balance is an inherent quality of nature. If there are people who can think of creating an atom bomb there would be people who would be willing to give up their lives for the good of all.

This mixture of the good and bad is what makes us go through a myriad number of experiences and gradually evolve.

I believe there is a very deep veiling of our day to day activities even. We are unable to see the truth even when it patently strikes us, leave alone understanding deeply veiled activities.

I think, everything happens with a reason.

Dear Vaagmi Ji,

My answers in blue.

Vaagmi said:

Dear renukaji,

My thoughts on this:

1. The inexorable march of time did and does several things to the lives on earth. While life evolves many get destroyed also never to appear again in the form in which they were before vanishing. Every day I remember the harmless and chirping ஊர்க்குருவி which once used to visit my garden every day in the morning. It is stopped visiting long back. And there are no ஊர்க்குருவி seen these days. That beautiful little life form has just vanished from the face of the earth. I feel terribly sad and get angry at my inability to do anything about it. Scientists say the radiation from the micro wave towers destroy the sheath covering the fetus inside the egg of a ஊர்க்குருவி. And that leaves me angry with Technology and Science for destroying my little harbinger of happiness every morning. I am but helpless.

OMG! So it was true...you used to keep saying some little birdie told you this and told you that...Its actually true!LOL

I always that being a great Vaishnava...Garuda took a subtle form to chirp away with you...Sukshma roop dhari Vaagmi hi dikhava!

2. Man , as we know, is on the top of the pyramid because he remains at the pinnacle of evolution. He has a mind. The mind is worse than a monkey and it plays a lot of mischief. Though the nature remains whatever it is despite all the tinkering we do with it in the periphery, human beings' capacity for mischief is immense.

Vaagmi ji..I grew up with monkeys sitting on my dining table sharing my breakfast with me.

Serious not joking..I grew up in a small town living in an old British Government house which was huge and surrounded by a dense jungle...so monkeys were there everyday.

Initially they were apprehensive and a little wild but after they knew a worse monkey than them existed in that house..they became friendly.

I personally feel my monkey friends were better than most humans I knew and know.

So I have to agree that the human mind is not a monkey..its worse than that!LOL

3. We looked somewhat deep at an atom and what did we make out of it? A bomb. A bomb the combined effect of all that is held in stock today is enough to destroy the entire human race and earth several times over and leave the earth inhospitable.


We also looked deep into Mahabharat and what did we find?

Brahamastra just for the sake of getting even and personal land conflict...so whether is an Anu or Tanu weds Manu..humans have been the same all the while.

4. As we had the bomb so we used it once with irrepairable consequences.
There is no way we can ask and find out how the japanese child which was walking, holding the hand of its father, in the central square of Hiroshima felt when it instantly evaporated in thin air when the bomb hit the ground zero. Was it painful and if so how painful? I am disturbed by these thoughts.

I am also disturbed by what happened in Pearl Harbour..so many American soldiers lost their lives...so what can I say...I can only feel sorry for both Americans and Japanese.

5. Knowing the mischief potential of the human mind, we perhaps invented the religion and God as a counter weight. And the solution has largely held. If despite the religion and its moral compulsions such things can happen what if there is no religion and no God and no good and bad?

We come into the world alone...we exit also alone..we came crying Ko'ham Ko' Ham and breathe So'ham So' ham and finally die without a breath or a heart beat...its just a Mannangatti existence and religion just is a feel good factor to mask that fact.

Why disturb the equilibrium, however tenacious it may be?

Hello Vaagmi ji..who started disturbing the equilibrium? Khuda Hain Na?

Its becos of the tilt of the equilibrium of the Gunas that entire existence came into picture!

So We didnt start the fire but yet we are supposed to sing Havan Karenge Havan Karenge in the name of religion.

Kya Logic yaar!

Yes, the human mind may feel constrained and suffocated by the need to follow the religion and live with the discipline imposed. But practically it helps to stay alive for the day and look forward to a future-even if it is an uncertain future. Does it not?

Nope...when a persons heart stops no religion is going to do CPR for him...it has to be a fellow human giving him CPR to give him another day to life for..If Tomorrow Comes..in the existence that has a View To a Kill...there is NO man with a Golden Finger that can make Life a Casino Royale..its all about Live and Let Die even if you are treated by Dr No....we only live once but some religions advocate a born again status...deluding us into thinking You Only Live Twice.

Nothing is forever...Diamonds too are not Forever..Religion only screws the Living Day Lights out of us...the World is Never enough for a human...Religion too can add desire to our never ending list....some religions give us the Licence to Kill..making our lives only a Sky Fall landing hard on the soil of existence...it can only give a Quantum of Solace for the weak minded..so
do we really need this Spectre?

Click to expand...

Vaagmi said:

.


5. Knowing the mischief potential of the human mind, we perhaps invented the religion and God as a counter weight. And the solution has largely held. If despite the religion and its moral compulsions such things can happen what if there is no religion and no God and no good and bad?

When Alwar sang "பல்லாண்டு பல்லாண்டு பல்லாயிரத்தாண்டு................" how thoughtful he had been. Did these thoughts crossed his mind? I wonder.

Click to expand...

ஊர்குருவி கண்டான்
வானூர்தி படைத்தான்"

எதனை கண்டான்
மதங்களை படைத்தான்?

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...PQ_3PAZY2ioEHhLAA&sig2=FhkKo6wFas6mjm-c1qT-qQ

How thoughful about this Frankeinstein!

Janaki Jambunathan said:

ஊர்குருவி கண்டான்
வானூர்தி படைத்தான்"

எதனை கண்டான்
மதங்களை படைத்தான்?

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...PQ_3PAZY2ioEHhLAA&sig2=FhkKo6wFas6mjm-c1qT-qQ

How thoughful about this Frankeinstein!

Click to expand...

From the lyrics (what I understand) of the song, it is clear that the writer was not a scientist. Everything they say about nature is completely wrong. So the analysis is bogus and distraction.
No disrespect to JJji.

Let us get back to the topic.
How did we loose our sanity? When did our common sense and wisdom collapse? When and how did this rot set in?

tks said:

The original article cited in the Opening Post offers some reasons.
http://www.esamskriti.com/essay-chap...induism-1.aspx

In my view, the real threat these days is the exploitation of what may be considered the strengths of the religion. These are that it is not founded, it does not have a single book ,it accepts others who are not followers of Hinduism fully and lacks any commandments.

Though it is not founded what is called Hinduism by outsiders is a way of life guided by a seemingly complex concept called Dharma whose interpretation in a given situation requires knowledge.

There are specific issues

1. Today's Hinduism has become all about superstition.
2.Many Hindus condone corruption though a small number may participate. Karma and Dharma Bhoomi of yesteryears is seemingly growing to be a capital of Adharma.
3.Most of the people in upper middle class (and some of middle and lower class in terms of economics) are completely taken by the culture of the West and are trying to follow the worst of the western culture with a vengeance.
4. Formally educated people are illiterate when it comes to understanding the significance of any of the practices. Worse yet, they make up some silly theories of their own using terms found in our scriptures without ever bothering to understand any of the basic tenets.
5. Many of the Matams including Sri Sankara Matams have taken up more of rituals than focus on teaching the significance of various aspects of Hinduism

A good set of teachers need to be groomed by various Matams to get people away from adharmic activities. That will be a good start.

Click to expand...

Sir you make a valid point.
I agree that teachers needs to be groomed, who are open to science and religion. They must not be superstitious, and are strong enough to bebung all these superstitions.
Sadly so called "educated" people want to peddle superstitions in the name of culture. I am afraid that they have an agenda to keep the masses ignorant, so they can defraud them (may not be financial),
Or they feed their ego. These are the people who cause the rot, and enjoy it.

prasad1 said:

From the lyrics (what I understand) of the song, it is clear that the writer was not a scientist. Everything they say about nature is completely wrong. So the analysis is bogus and distraction.
No disrespect to JJji.

Let us get back to the topic.

Click to expand...

Every thing he says about nature is completly wrong - so the analysis bogus and distraction - OK - what about him in a different context - when he writes - அர்த்தமுள்ள இந்து மதம் - in defense of Hinduism - all correct and not bogus? - No disrespect to Prasad1ji - That gets us back to the topic!

prasad1 said:

Sir you make a valid point.
I agree that teachers needs to be groomed, who are open to science and religion. They must not be superstitious, and are strong enough to bebung all these superstitions.
Sadly so called "educated" people want to peddle superstitions in the name of culture. I am afraid that they have an agenda to keep the masses ignorant, so they can defraud them (may not be financial),
Or they feed their ego. These are the people who cause the rot, and enjoy it.

Click to expand...

When we talk about a religion, should we be referring to what people are practicing or what the underlying scriptures actually teach?

If we take Hinduism to be defined what people are doing under its banner, there is not much to save because by and large the practices are oriented towards superstition and exploitation. There are new sub-religions formed. We now have Iyyappa religion , Shiradi Sai Baba religion, Sathya Sai Baba religion, Hare Krishna religion etc. all under the umbrella of Hinduism. Some of the practitioners are sincere but predominantly it is fear, greed and ego that drives the practices. The practices will keep on evolving and newer fights will continue to emerge.

If we take Hinduism to be defined by what is taught in our scriptures there is something worth saving. This is because before the religion called Hinduism got its name from outsiders it was referred to as the land of Sanathana Dharma. If Hinduism practices are expressions of this Dharma then it is worth preserving by each of us following the essence of the teaching. This will lead to a more peaceful and prosperous societies. Before this can happen, adharma practices and corruption have to be rooted out of India in a large measure

renuka said:

I feel humans should start detaching themselves from religion to actually know their true selves.

Nature or God would have surely designed a human to not SELF DESTRUCT.

One does not need Religion to know this fact.

It isn't actually hard at all to lead a simple peaceful life.

There is no acute need to save any Religion..be it Hinduism or Islam or Christianity...in fact in the process of saving Religion and Culture humans move away from the humanity.

One needs to only save themselves from harming self and others.

There is nothing too hard about this..even animals know how to follow their instinct..so why is it so hard for a human and the need to constantly drag in religion as their identity.

What is the true identity of a Human?

Does it include religion?

I do not think so.

Click to expand...

Dear Renuka Madam:


It is hard not to notice that you started the thread 'Sai Lives on' in 2011 and have posted religiously over 5 years more than tens of thousand posts. The thread was started probably after the Godman died I think.

So why keep that religion alive with such devotion over last 5 years and make a different point here for all others?

a-TB said:

Dear Renuka Madam:


It is hard not to notice that you started the thread 'Sai Lives on' in 2011 and have posted religiously over 5 years more than tens of thousand posts. The thread was started probably after the Godman died I think.

So why keep that religion alive with such devotion over last 5 years and make a different point here for all others?

Click to expand...

Dear Sir,

I will answer your question.

Yes I started that thread..I still keep it alive.

But what I write now is what I am now.

I started off by adhering to reading books mainly..I was never into ritualistic method of praying.

Sathya Sai Baba's teachings appealed to me cos it seemed very easy to grasp and discourses too were very informative.

But at the same time over the years I have come to feel that Religion has caused a lot of conflict to human thinking and true human nature is present in us and we do not need to have Religion as a mirror to see our own reflection.

That is when a few years ago I shut my house pooja room...a drastic step that shocked everyone at home.

I gave up image worship...I preferred not to limit God to an image..my husband got scared thinking I am becoming a Muslim!LOL

No...I am still a Hindu by birth.

Then even the concept of an external or Internal God started to slip away from my mind and I preferred to explore not having to pray at all.

The transition was stressful cos once we are used to prayer and we wean of it..it aint easy.

One can feel lost and confused..survived all that.

Then personally I started to feel that a human is endowed with true nature that means no harm to self and others and I frankly felt as long as I dabbled with religion I would have not known this fact that cos Religion makes us believe that we can only become good and realize the nature of the Atma if we adhere to prescribed rules.

I got away from prescribed rules...I am still the same person...I tested myself...Can I be the same person sans religion?

Answer Yes..I am still the same and I may add..I have become bolder and more outspoken.



But the reason I maintain the Sai thread is becos it can prove beneficial to others.

Many a times I had thought should I ask Moderator to shut it down?

Then a thought comes to me "Let it be..it could help others"

After all even a blind man can still hold a lamp for others.


Sorry for the long story..I had no choice but to reply you in detail..otherwise you might mistake me for being Bipolar or a Hypocrite!LOL

BTW..My debates for my different view on Religion are mainly in GD.

I never debate about religious practices in other sections of forum.

In fact I still contribute where I can cos I do read a few shlokas of Sanskrit Valmiki Ramayan daily..and read other Sanskrit text daily even though my thinking has changed.

I view everything as knowledge..I do not give it a religious tag.

what is common among hindus, that which uniquely identifies a hindu as hindu by which one can claim he/she is a hindu, regardless of any ritual specific to his/her caste, that which distinguishes him/her from members of other religions?

It may be some practice, some ritual or whatever it is?

renuka said:

I feel humans should start detaching themselves from religion to actually know their true selves.

....
One does not need Religion to know this fact.



I do not think so.

Click to expand...

J Krishnamurthy also says the same. But don't we call his philosophy also hindu philosophy!

He says organized religion is not needed to know the truth. He says that Truth is a pathless land one must discover by one's own self without following a guru/teacher or religion.

tks said:

When we talk about a religion, should we be referring to what people are practicing or what the underlying scriptures actually teach?

If we take Hinduism to be defined what people are doing under its banner, there is not much to save because by and large the practices are oriented towards superstition and exploitation. There are new sub-religions formed. We now have Iyyappa religion , Shiradi Sai Baba religion, Sathya Sai Baba religion, Hare Krishna religion etc. all under the umbrella of Hinduism. Some of the practitioners are sincere but predominantly it is fear, greed and ego that drives the practices. The practices will keep on evolving and newer fights will continue to emerge.

If we take Hinduism to be defined by what is taught in our scriptures there is something worth saving. This is because before the religion called Hinduism got its name from outsiders it was referred to as the land of Sanathana Dharma. If Hinduism practices are expressions of this Dharma then it is worth preserving by each of us following the essence of the teaching. This will lead to a more peaceful and prosperous societies. Before this can happen, adharma practices and corruption have to be rooted out of India in a large measure

Click to expand...

I never knew so many religions existing within Hinduism. I thought what Brahmins do is only true Hinduism.

a-TB said:

Dear Renuka Madam:


It is hard not to notice that you started the thread 'Sai Lives on' in 2011 and have posted religiously over 5 years more than tens of thousand posts. The thread was started probably after the Godman died I think.

So why keep that religion alive with such devotion over last 5 years and make a different point here for all others?

Click to expand...

dear sir, if sai religion is a religion by itself, it is no ordinary religion sir. why would indian railways establish a separate railway station in the name sathya sai prashanthi nilayam and compel every express or passenger train to halt there even after his death?

nevertheless it is not on the main route. it is a diversion between dharmavaram and hindupur. such is the importance.

is any other god-man given such importance. I know of no other.

only puzzling thing is his pre-mature death.

tks said:

When we talk about a religion, should we be referring to what people are practicing or what the underlying scriptures actually teach?

If we take Hinduism to be defined what people are doing under its banner, there is not much to save because by and large the practices are oriented towards superstition and exploitation. There are new sub-religions formed. We now have Iyyappa religion , Shiradi Sai Baba religion, Sathya Sai Baba religion, Hare Krishna religion etc. all under the umbrella of Hinduism. Some of the practitioners are sincere but predominantly it is fear, greed and ego that drives the practices. The practices will keep on evolving and newer fights will continue to emerge.

If we take Hinduism to be defined by what is taught in our scriptures there is something worth saving. This is because before the religion called Hinduism got its name from outsiders it was referred to as the land of Sanathana Dharma. If Hinduism practices are expressions of this Dharma then it is worth preserving by each of us following the essence of the teaching. This will lead to a more peaceful and prosperous societies. Before this can happen, adharma practices and corruption have to be rooted out of India in a large measure

Click to expand...

Ordinary Hindus -- I would briefly define this term as referring to those who are born hindus, who believe in idol worship, who believe in Gurus and their teachings, who are bewildered or intimidated by the sheer volume of scripture literature that are there in the religion, who are unable to read or understand Sanskrit in which most of the scriptures are originally written, who depend on Gurus or teachers to interpret and explain the meaning of what is said in the scriptures--need a teacher to interpret the material that is available as scriptures in Sanskrit. This is a given fact.

When such an ordinary Hindu gets to know one such Guru and when he finds that what he speaks is in his own ordinary language free from high sounding philosophies, he showers love and respect on that teacher and places him next only to God. That teacher and the sishyas who have thus adopted him at a fairly high level of esteem form a denomination which can be called losely as a religion as has been done in the post quoted here.

Thus we have Shirdi Sai baba religion, Iyyappa Religion, Sathya Sai religion, Hare Krishna Religion etc., and more.

There is nothing superstitious or base about such "religions". They help ordinary hindus live their lives somewhat peacefully.

If every one was a scholar then perhaps we will have only Monism, Qualified Monism and Dualism as the predominent religions under the Hindu fold. For obvious reasons that is not the case in the given situation here. So these ordinary man's religions have to be accommodated so that the religion remains inclusive.

Thus, as I used to say, the deity Agni Madan in my village to whom my childhood friend Pandi offers a bottle of home-brewn Arrack and a pack of Dindigul Cigars as an offering is also a God for Hindus.

Let us not confine God to "dukhrinjkarane"ing brahmin scholars and their select audience.

We did that once long back and we had to contend with Budhdhism and Jainism. Let us not turn elitist in the matter of religion.

Dear Veterans, This Topic ---" Who will save Hinduism ?, has nicely brought out lot of genuine thoughts / experiences , Esp. as that of Dr. Renuka, We all practice our religion, customs as taught by the elders, in our day-to-day life . In materialistic life we lead, we earn more wealth, whether needed or not , ? we feel that unless you earn money , you cannot fulfill your duties , such as giving high level Education to your children & ensure get your daughters married to a wealthy groom & thus feel / you have succeeded in this world of mad competition.
Coming to the point of people desire to visit such Temples , which are wealthy like Thirumalai , the ever attractive Malayappa & getting your Vows fulfilled, like thousands who THRONG in thousands every day. As for as the donations made by the devotees to this ever Blessing Lord Srinivasa, I remember that an anonymous Donor from Kolkatta decades back / Six crore worth of
Kreedam The enormous faith is the proof of the devoted HINDUS . No gurus or Sanyasis preached for this. I want to tell that the inner mind of Hindus work all 24 hrs towards God & spontaneously act , not looking to Right or Left ?
I , like most , possess deep faith & perform little bit of sincere prayer, in our own way thus feel happy & look to the Blessings of the Lords. However, we have to ensure that you lead a pious life, be kind hearted, helpful to persons in your neighbourhood & get a name that you are a Good man, & others can approach you easily.
A. Srinivasan ( Rishikesan )

This subject has been discussed threadbare time and again in this forum.

According to my understanding, the relationship between the creator and created is a spiritual quest which is personal in nature. It is beyond the understanding of the known faculties provided by nature to us. Mostly based on negations of concepts known to us. Religion is based on belief in certain path and codes enunciated to follow by group of followers.


Spiritual quest is not confinded to believers in the concept of Almighty God alone. For instance Jainism and Buddhism are non-theistic Religions, they do not accept God, as also some sections of Samkya Philosphy and works of Charvaka are based on Lokāyata (examining by reason). It is believed negation of God by Jainism and Buddhism were based on these philosopies.

I would consider "Pranava, Dharma, Karma and belief in rebirth" are the common concepts that are accepted by followers of all the philosphies that we call Hinduism.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

Brahmanyan said:

It is believed negation of God by Jainism and Buddhism were based on these philosopies.

I would consider "Pranava, Dharma, Karma and belief in rebirth" are the common concepts that are accepted by followers of all the philosphies that we call Hinduism.


Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

Click to expand...

If the definition of Hinduism is summed in these terms, then there is no argument at all.
What happens to the "CULTURE"? What is the advice given to young people about whether they can buy a dining table from a NB person? Or how or why to do "parishEchanam" on a dining Table, Or Rahu Kalam. How to deal with superstitions, like bali of animal or human sacrifices.

GNANA SUNYAM said:

I never knew so many religions existing within Hinduism. I thought what Brahmins do is only true Hinduism.

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Brahmin Jaathi is just another Jaathi in today's world. Hinduism at its foundational level includes enormous diversity of thoughts and is inclusive of all people.

Vaagmi said:

Ordinary Hindus -- I would briefly define this term as referring to those who are born hindus, who believe in idol worship, who believe in Gurus and their teachings, who are bewildered or intimidated by the sheer volume of scripture literature that are there in the religion, who are unable to read or understand Sanskrit in which most of the scriptures are originally written, who depend on Gurus or teachers to interpret and explain the meaning of what is said in the scriptures--need a teacher to interpret the material that is available as scriptures in Sanskrit. This is a given fact.

When such an ordinary Hindu gets to know one such Guru and when he finds that what he speaks is in his own ordinary language free from high sounding philosophies, he showers love and respect on that teacher and places him next only to God. That teacher and the sishyas who have thus adopted him at a fairly high level of esteem form a denomination which can be called losely as a religion as has been done in the post quoted here.

Thus we have Shirdi Sai baba religion, Iyyappa Religion, Sathya Sai religion, Hare Krishna Religion etc., and more.

There is nothing superstitious or base about such "religions". They help ordinary hindus live their lives somewhat peacefully.

If every one was a scholar then perhaps we will have only Monism, Qualified Monism and Dualism as the predominent religions under the Hindu fold. For obvious reasons that is not the case in the given situation here. So these ordinary man's religions have to be accommodated so that the religion remains inclusive.

Thus, as I used to say, the deity Agni Madan in my village to whom my childhood friend Pandi offers a bottle of home-brewn Arrack and a pack of Dindigul Cigars as an offering is also a God for Hindus.

Let us not confine God to "dukhrinjkarane"ing brahmin scholars and their select audience.

We did that once long back and we had to contend with Budhdhism and Jainism. Let us not turn elitist in the matter of religion.

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A qualified teacher can teach anyone what Dharma is and how to interpret that in a given situation.

A human being knows when they condone corruption or when they engage in that act, that they are doing harm.

A person steeped in religion tend to engage in adharmic activities inconsistent with the teaching.

A religious ego is one of the most harmful ego in terms of its impact.

New sub religions will always get formed - past, present and future. There are no issues with that.
Similarly image worship, having a teacher or having some traditions and following them are all fine provided there is no adharma and corruption in the daily life of the practitioners of the tradition.

Not everyone has to know the knowledge scriptures well. But a few who are in the role of teaching must and should be able to translate them to ordinary people in terms of what it means to lead a life of Dharma amidst issues. Instead religions (including Hinduism and its vintages) has become a platform to promote superstition enabling more insecurity , corruption (e.g, sharing black money with God or spending a fortune on an idol while people are dying), and making their 'God' an accomplice in chasing after greed.

Scriptural teaching to ordinary people does not mean teaching Vedanta to ordinary people.

Can't comment on mistaken (though popular) understanding of the usage of the term "dukhrinjkarane"

prasad1 said:

If the definition of Hinduism is summed in these terms, then there is no argument at all.
What happens to the "CULTURE"? What is the advice given to young people about whether they can buy a dining table from a NB person? Or how or why to do "parishEchanam" on a dining Table, Or Rahu Kalam. How to deal with superstitions, like bali of animal or human sacrifices.

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Good question indeed. But I have no answers for them. I can only try to reform myself by cleaning the cobwebs in me, that had gathered due to years of blind beliefs and superstitions.

I believe in "Compassion, Companionship and Contentment", which are the basic requirements for a good human being. And that is my religion.

Nature has provided every thing free to us. If we could share them with others where is the necessary for conflict ?
The Africans call this Ubuntu –( the essence of being human) Ubuntu speaks particularly about the fact that you can't exist as a human being in isolation. It speaks about our interconnectedness.

Great Mahathmas have appeared time and again to reform the mindset of people and society in our country. Sidhartha Gowthama became Buddha, Mul Shankar Tiwari became Mahrishi Dayananda Saraswathi and started Arya Samaj. Sri Narayana Guru of our times as also Raja Ram Mohan Roy, Swami Vivekananda, Baba Amte, Mahatma Gandhi, Acharya Vinobha Bhave, Bhimrao Ramji Ambedkar, Pandurang Sastry Athavale and are some of the names come to my mind. There are many more great souls appear time and again, but it is a continuous struggle.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.