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Popular iyers in the four sub sects of the community

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CHANDRU1849

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Feb 13, 2013

The Tamil speaking Iyer community has four major sub-sects viz.,

Vadama, Brahacharanam, Vathima and Ashtasahasram.

There are lot of popular Iyers belonging to the above four sub-sects.

I would like to know sub-sect-wise popular Iyers for information.

Can anyone give the details please.

Thanks,

S Chandrasekaran
 
Interesting question. To my knowledge there is no ready made information available. I have not come across such details in any records. Some biographers have mentioned the subdivisions of the persons covered by them.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
Feb 13, 2013

The Tamil speaking Iyer community has four major sub-sects viz.,

Vadama, Brahacharanam, Vathima and Ashtasahasram.

There are lot of popular Iyers belonging to the above four sub-sects.

I would like to know sub-sect-wise popular Iyers for information.

Can anyone give the details please.

Thanks,

S Chandrasekaran

When the country's constitution aims at doing away with the phenomenon of caste itself, it is highly retrograde to dig into sub-caste details. Secondly, except for the Vadamas all other sub-castes had been dubbed as inferior on one count or the other and I know of people claiming to be Vadama Iyers even though in truth they were not. And, lastly what is the purpose of such a research, please?
 
There are a few other subcastes which you have left out. They are chozhiyas, Mukkaaniyas and gurukkal/bhattar. any reasons for that?
 
Indian constitution (art 15)refers to only discrimination, not eradication of caste. It is unfortunate that the constitution framers did not include you during discussions, debates, writing and approval of the constitution. When will you accept that varna, jati, kula will not vanish. In addition, the constitution recognises and has made provisions for special treatment of some castes.

Article 15 in The Constitution Of India 194915. Prohibition of discrimination on grounds of religion, race, caste, sex or place of birth(1) The State shall not discriminate against any citizen on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of birth or any of them
(2) No citizen shall, on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of birth or any of them, be subject to any disability, liability, restriction or condition with regard to(a) access to shops, public restaurants, hotels and palaces of public entertainment; or
(b) the use of wells, tanks, bathing ghats, roads and places of public resort maintained wholly or partly out of State funds or dedicated to the use of the general public

(3) Nothing in this article shall prevent the State from making any special provision for women and children
(4) Nothing in this article or in clause ( 2 ) of Article 29 shall prevent the State from making any special provision for the advancement of any socially and educationally backward classes of citizens or for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes


When the country's constitution aims at doing away with the phenomenon of caste itself, it is highly retrograde to dig into sub-caste details. Secondly, except for the Vadamas all other sub-castes had been dubbed as inferior on one count or the other and I know of people claiming to be Vadama Iyers even though in truth they were not. And, lastly what is the purpose of such a research, please?
 
Sangom Sir - If somebody wants to discuss British Rule in India, would it be called an anti-Indian? The OP will not bring conflict amongst the sub-sects. It is good for திண்ணை பேச்சு.
 
Indian constitution (art 15)refers to only discrimination, not eradication of caste. It is unfortunate that the constitution framers did not include you during discussions, debates, writing and approval of the constitution. When will you accept that varna, jati, kula will not vanish. In addition, the constitution recognises and has made provisions for special treatment of some castes.

Article 15 in The Constitution Of India 194915. Prohibition of discrimination on grounds of religion, race, caste, sex or place of birth(1) The State shall not discriminate against any citizen on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of birth or any of them
(2) No citizen shall, on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of birth or any of them, be subject to any disability, liability, restriction or condition with regard to(a) access to shops, public restaurants, hotels and palaces of public entertainment; or
(b) the use of wells, tanks, bathing ghats, roads and places of public resort maintained wholly or partly out of State funds or dedicated to the use of the general public

(3) Nothing in this article shall prevent the State from making any special provision for women and children
(4) Nothing in this article or in clause ( 2 ) of Article 29 shall prevent the State from making any special provision for the advancement of any socially and educationally backward classes of citizens or for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes

The other day I read about one of the leaders of Tamil Nadu exhorting his followers not to enter into inter-Caste marriages. We do see often Caste leaders talking about other castes in derision.

But these leaders are not being accused of supporting the Caste system.


Caste has now become communities. Communities have a lot in common. They will continue to exist.


It also led me to wonder why Tamil Brahmins are still being blamed for the caste system?


Everyone in India talks about Caste. But no one talks in praise of the oppressive caste System.


Tamil Brahmins are one of the few communities who praise the system, defend it and find out all kinds of reasons for it.


Just an observation.


Why do we defend the indefensible?


Why do we defend a system which no longer benefits us?
 
Indian constitution (art 15)refers to only discrimination, not eradication of caste. It is unfortunate that the constitution framers did not include you during discussions, debates, writing and approval of the constitution. When will you accept that varna, jati, kula will not vanish. In addition, the constitution recognises and has made provisions for special treatment of some castes.

Article 15 in The Constitution Of India 194915. Prohibition of discrimination on grounds of religion, race, caste, sex or place of birth(1) The State shall not discriminate against any citizen on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of birth or any of them
(2) No citizen shall, on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of birth or any of them, be subject to any disability, liability, restriction or condition with regard to(a) access to shops, public restaurants, hotels and palaces of public entertainment; or
(b) the use of wells, tanks, bathing ghats, roads and places of public resort maintained wholly or partly out of State funds or dedicated to the use of the general public

(3) Nothing in this article shall prevent the State from making any special provision for women and children
(4) Nothing in this article or in clause ( 2 ) of Article 29 shall prevent the State from making any special provision for the advancement of any socially and educationally backward classes of citizens or for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes

The Independence came a bit early, I would say. If it had happened after twenty years, may be I would at least have written some letters to the editors of some newspapers. But, here again, I am not sure whether I would have had the maturity which I have now and whether I would have viewed at that stage of my life, that caste as something to be eradicated.

That said, why does the Constitution article 15 prohibits discrimination on the ground of caste? Does it envisage that caste and caste-based phenomena will (may/should?) thrive alright but the GOI as a party will not discriminate on the basis of caste? If so why untouchability was sought to be abolished, in addition to Article 17?
 
Feb 13, 2013

The Tamil speaking Iyer community has four major sub-sects viz.,

Vadama, Brahacharanam, Vathima and Ashtasahasram.

There are lot of popular Iyers belonging to the above four sub-sects.

I would like to know sub-sect-wise popular Iyers for information.

Can anyone give the details please.

Thanks,

S Chandrasekaran

a brand new member, chandasekaran, welcome to the forum. pray, why would you want this information? what purpose would be served, by dwelling into the subcastes at this period of our history?

if you google you might find a list of illustrous iyers somewhere in the web. that would be starters, and maybe you can pursue with each person or his progeny re his/her subcaste.

otherwise, i think, there is not much interest in it these days. or simply put, 'who cares'? (but you ofcourse)
 

Here is the list I got from wikipedia


Some famous Vadamas:



[h=3]Government, Administration and Justice[/h]
[h=3]Politics[/h]
[h=3]Warfare[/h]


[h=3]The Arts[/h]
  • Syama Sastri, one of the doyens of Carnatic Music, a descendant of a group of Vadadesa Vadama who fled Conjeeveram in the wake of a Muslim attack.[SUP][41][/SUP][SUP][42][/SUP]
  • Ramaswamy Dikshitar (1735-1817?) and his son Muthuswamy Dikshitar, eminent Carnatic musicians[SUP][43][/SUP]
  • Konerirajapuram Vaidyanatha Ayyar (1878–1921), renowned Carnatic vocalist
  • Gopalakrishna Bharathi, his father Ramaswami Bharathi and grandfather Kothandarama Bharathi, a family of eminent Carnatic musicians[SUP][44][/SUP][SUP][45][/SUP]
  • F.G. Natesa Iyer (1880–1963), founder of Rasika Ranjana Sabha, Trichy, talent scout,officer of the South Indian Railway Company,pioneered modern Tamil drama, Tamil cinema actor, also elected Mayor of Trichy in the 1920s [SUP][46][/SUP]
  • M. D. Ramanathan (1923–1984), composer/vocalist
  • Jayaram (b. 1964) Tamil and Malayalam film actor
  • Arvind Swamy (b. 1967) Tamil and Hindi actor and entrepreneur.

Some famous Brahacharanams are:
[h=3][edit]Chandrasekhar family[/h]
[h=3][edit]Alladi family[/h]
[h=3][edit]Dr D V G family[/h]
  • Dr D.V.Gundappa, Padmabhushan winner, poet, philosopher, philanthropist (donated entire purse in 1968 to GIPA - Gokhale Institute of Public Affairs, Bull Temple Road, Basavanagudi, Bangalore)
|DVG||1974, Padmabhushan Literature & Education||Karnataka||India
[h=3][edit]Sri Dharmarajadhvarin =[/h]
  • Dharmarajadhvarin and Ramakrsnadiksita, father and son who lived in the 17th and 18th centuries. There were scholars of Nyaya and Vedanta and published works like Tattvacintamaniprakasavyakhya and Vedanta Paribhasha.




Some famous Ashtashasrams:
[h=2]

Some famous Vathimas:



[/h]
 
Now that Sri Sravana has actually answered the question in the OP directly can we talk about what are the typical negative stereotypes associated with each of the sub-sects :)?

I have heard a few while growing up from people who have visited us (but not from my parents).

Not sure who are Maddhyanna Pariah? Are they Brahmins sects?
 
Interesting read...

I was wondering in Forum itself we have prominent members but I have no idea who is which subcaste.

For knowledge purposes dissection is fine after all to learn about the human body I had to dissect every muscle fibre.

So by knowing each subcaste we can trace origins of each community and can cross check it with details in history.

I used to wonder what is a Dikshitar doing in the South when Dikshit is a Marathi Brahmin surname...so that could mean a Dikshitar could have originated from Maharasthra perhaps?

So it is quite informative to know more of each person.

I know one Iyengar priest whose son suffers from a rare disorder where the brain cells are infiltrated with fat cells..so the child can't walk and can't talk at all.

I looked up about the disorder before(I cant remember the name of the disorder now..it is so rare that I don't think even my text books carried it when I was in college).

The info of that disease I got was from some Indian medical website where such cases were seen in Uttar Pradesh Brahmins before.

So I was wondering if that Iyengar priest had ancestors from UP?? God knows.
 

Dear Sravna Sir,

You have taken pains to collect info. from Wikipedia! I wonder why many popular musicians are left out in the list. And the names

of famous ladies are not in the list! We all know that the Iyers and Iyengars have been dominating the music field for many decades!

BTW, is there any use in knowing the subsect, when many brahmins are trying to coax their children to choose the partner at least

from the brahmins with any mother tongue! :D
 
........... Not sure who are Maddhyanna Pariah? Are they Brahmins sects?
If some kid takes a bath at noon, he is scolded as 'madhyAnap paRayan'!

:gossip: Of course 'they' are a subsect of brahmins but I won't tell which one!
 

Dear Renu,

May be we can collect the subsects of all tambrams (ladies and gentlemen) of our dear forum
and check who has more fighting spirit! :fencing:
 

Dear Renu,

May be we can collect the subsects of all tambrams (ladies and gentlemen) of our dear forum
and check who has more fighting spirit! :fencing:

Dear RR ji,

Good idea..after all the Kauravas were genetically Brahmins since Dhritarasthra was the son of Sage Vyasa.
 

Dear Sravna Sir,

You have taken pains to collect info. from Wikipedia! I wonder why many popular musicians are left out in the list. And the names

of famous ladies are not in the list! We all know that the Iyers and Iyengars have been dominating the music field for many decades!

BTW, is there any use in knowing the subsect, when many brahmins are trying to coax their children to choose the partner at least

from the brahmins with any mother tongue! :D

Dear Smt.RR,

I just copied and pasted the list given in wikipedia. No idea why the names of the musicians have been left out. You are right, there is no real need to know the sect other than just curiosity.
 
Dear RR ji,

Good idea..after all the Kauravas were genetically Brahmins since Dhritarasthra was the son of Sage Vyasa.

When growing up I was told we are 'pure' Vadamal from both sides, Atreya Gothram and therefore endowed with extra திமிர் :)
My wife is also from such a Vadamal family so I claim to have mellowed out but my children do not think so :) LoL
 
Vaishnavas are either Vadkalai or Thenkalai but how come the above Vaishnavas are Vadamas (An Iyer subsect)
Wiki says:

Ramanuja was born Ilaya Perumal in a Brahmin family in the village of
Perumbudur, Tamil Nadu, India.

His father was Asuri Keshava Somayaji Deekshitar and mother was Kanthimathi.

Deekshitar and Kanthimathi are Iyer names!
icon3.png
 
When growing up I was told we are 'pure' Vadamal from both sides, Atreya Gothram and therefore endowed with extra திமிர் :)
My wife is also from such a Vadamal family so I claim to have mellowed out but my children do not think so :) LoL


Dear TKS ji,

I remember once in Puttaparthi one speaker was speaking about mantras and he was talking about some mantras and the rishis names who were offered salutations.

Then when he came to the mantra where Atreya rishis name was mentioned..the speaker got very excited.

He was saying to everyone "I am Atreya Gotra..that's my lineage..thats my lineage..I am Athreya Gotra" a couple of times.

Now I know why he was so excited!LOL
 
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