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  1. #1
    jpoosha is offline Amateur
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    Lightbulb Shraddha Mantram

    The meaning of shraddha mantram is very disheartening..particularly against women. I am referring to "Yanme mata pralu.....".

    Can anyone shed some light as to why such a mantra is used for the homam in a shraddam and even as to why such a mantra exist, questioning what aspect of their life??
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    jpoosha is offline Amateur
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    To drsundaram:

    யன் மே மாதா ப்ரலுலோபாஸ்சரந்தி அநனுவ்றதா
    தன் மே ரேத: பிதா வ்றுங்க்தாம் மாऽபுரன்யோऽவபத்யதாँ ஸ்வதா நம:
    பித்ர இதம் ந மம

    yan me mAtA pralulobhAScarantyananuvratA
    tan me reta: pitA vr^ngktAm mA/bhuranyo/vapadyatAg^m svadhA nama:
    pitra idam na mama

    I do not know who really is my father. still I am considering her as my real father's wife and am doing this Sraaddham, the complete meaning is far worse..
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    kgopalan is offline Veteran
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    Hello
    Kindly buy a book aapasthamba parvana srardha prayogam wriiten by srivatsa somadeva sarma available in giri traders and also in bhavani book centre station road west mambalam.. He has given tamil meaning for these mantras.
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    jpoosha is offline Amateur
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    Lightbulb ty Mr Gopalan

    i knew the meaning and that's why ask someone 'learned' as to why such a mantram is used or may be even exist in our rituals...questioning what aspect of life ??
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    Dear Gopalan

    The book which you had recommended is not available at
    Giri Trading Agency or Bhavani Book Centre. I hope you
    would be having a copy of the same.I request you to post the
    meaning of the mantram for the benefit of the members of
    this forum.
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  10. #6
    kgopalan is offline Veteran
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    enathu thai pathivratha dharmapadi pathiyin dharma vrathangalai poornamaha anushtikamalirundalum ennai undu pannina pithavae intha havissai perattum.vidhi thavari irundal havissai pera varum pira asuradhigal/bramaratchidhargal ithai adaya vendam.water in tha havissai en pithavai thavira marravargal kondu pokatha padi thadukkattum. Pitha mahi pitha maharudan anuvratham seyyathirunrhalum pitha maharukke ithu sellattum.

    prapitha mahi than pathudan anuvratham seyyadhirundhalum prapitha mahare ithai erkattum. rithu, ahorathram;sandhya kalam;maadam;paksham;mountains;eight directions earth; aagiyorin adhistana devadaigal pira asuradhi brahma rakshadhar galai thadukkattum.

    raedhah pitha enbadhal adhillatha another pitha indha havissai pera varuvadhaghavum avargalai thaduppathu indha manthram ena silar koorugirargal; idhu mother i asudha paduthuvadhal indha manthramae koodathu ena silar koorru. Pira suthrathil idhu illai.

    Thaai pathiyudan orumitha karmaavil eedupadavittaal asurargalum; brahma rakshadhargalum ithai apagarippathaaga sasthram koorugirathu.

    sri vatsa somadeva sarma is writing like this in his book.
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  12. #7
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    post #6 in tamil script...(to the best of google's ability) :0

    எனது தாய் பதிவ்ரத தர்மபடி பதியின் தர்ம வ்ரதங்களை பூர்ணமஹா அனுஷ்டிகமளிருண்டலும் என்னை உண்டு பண்ணின பிதாவே இந்த ஹவிஸ்ஸை
    பெறட்டும் .விதி தவறி இருந்தால் ஹவிஸ்ஸை பெற வரும் பிற அசுரதிகள் / பிரமரட்சிதர்கள் இதை அடைய வேண்டாம் . வாட்டர்
    இன் தா ஹவிஸ்ஸை என் பிதாவை தவிர மற்றவர்கள் கொண்டு போகாத படி thadukkattum. பீதா மகி பிதா மகாருடன் அனுவ்ரதம் செய்யதிருன்ர்ஹளும்
    பிதா மகாருக்கே இது செல்லட்டும் பிறப்பித்த மகி தான் பத்துடன் அனுவ்ரதம் செய்யதிருந்தலும் பிறப்பித்த மகாரே இதை ஏற்கட்டும்
    . ரித்து , அஹோரத்ரம் ;சந்த்யா காலம ;மாடம் ;பக்ஷம் ;மௌண்டைன்ஸ் ;eight directions earth; ஆகியோரின் அதிச்டன தேவதைகள்
    பிற அசுரதி பிரம்மா ரக்ஷதர் களை தடுக்கட்டும்
    .ரேதாஹ் பிதா என்பதால் அதில்லாத அனொதெர் பிதா இந்த ஹவிஸ்ஸை பெற வருவதாகவும் அவர்களை தடுப்பது இந்த மந்த்ரம்
    என சிலர் கூறுகிறார்கள் ; இது mother இ அசுத படுத்துவதால் இந்த மந்த்ரமே கூடாது என சிலர் கூற்று . பிற சுத்ரத்தில் இது இல்லை
    .தாய் பதியுடன் ஒருமித்த கர்மாவில் ஈடுபடாவிட்டால் அசுரர்களும் ; பிரம்மா ரக்ஷதர்களும் இதை அபகரிப்பதாக சாஸ்த்ரம் கூறுகிறது
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  14. #8
    sangom's Avatar
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    எனது தாய் பதிவ்ரதாதர்மப்படி பதியின் தர்மவ்ரதங்களைப் பூர்ணமாக அனுஷ்டிக்காமலிருந்தாலும் என்னை உண்டு பண்ணின பிதாவே இந்த ஹவிஸ்ஸைப் பெறட்டும். விதிதவறி இருந்தால் ஹவிஸ்ஸைப் பெறவரும் பிற அஸுரர்கள்/ப்ரஹ்மரட்சிதர்கள் (ப்ரஹமரக்ஷஸ்?) இதை அடையவேண்டாம். வாட்டர் (ஜலம்?) இந்த ஹவிஸ்ஸை என் பிதாவைத் தவிர மற்றவர்கள் கொண்டுபோகாதபடி தடுக்கட்டும். பிரபிதாமஹி தன் பதியுடன் அனுவ்ரதம் செய்யாதிருந்தாலும் பிரபிதாமஹரே இதை ஏர்க்கட்டும். ரிது, அஹோராத்ரம், ஸந்த்யாகாலம், மாதம், பக்ஷம், மலைகள், அஷ்டதிக்குகள், பூமி, ஆகியோரின் அதிஷ்டானதேவதைகள் பிற அஸுராதி ப்ரஹ்மராக்ஷதர்களைத் தடுக்கட்டும்.

    ரேத: பிதா என்பதால் அதில்லாத another பிதா இந்த ஹவிஸ்ஸைப் பெற வருவதாகவும் அவர்களைத்தடுப்பது இந்த மந்திரம் எனச் சிலர் கூறுகிறார்கள். இது மாதாவை (mother-ஐ) அசுத்தப்படுத்துவதால் இந்த மந்திரமே கூடாது எனச் சிலர் கூற்று.


    தாய் பதியுடன் ஒருமித்து கர்மாவில் ஈடுபடாவிட்டால் அஸுரர்களும், ப்ரஹ்மரட்சதர்களும் இதை அபகரிப்பதாக சாஸ்திரம் கூறுகிறது.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    When we look at the mantra without prejudice, it is like this:

    यन्मॆ माता प्रलुलॊभा भवन्त्यननुव्रता ।

    तन्मे रेतः पिता वृङ्क्ताम् मा आभुर् अन्यो अवपद्यताँ स्वधा नमः ।
    ...गॊत्रॆ ...शर्मणे पित्रॆ स्वाहा । पित्र इदम् न मम ।

    yanme mātā pralulobhā bhavantyananuvratā |
    tanme retaḥ pitā vṛṅktām mā ābhur anyo avapadyatām̐ svadhā namaḥ |
    ...gotre ...śarmaṇe pitre svāhā | pitra idam na mama |


    The word meanings are -


    pralulobhā - being specially fascinated

    ananuvratā - not devoted, disobedient
    retaḥ pitā - biological father
    me - my
    vṛṅktām - after selecting, after finding out
    ābhu: - empty, without effect or result
    avapadyatām - fall down

    Based on the above meanings, the mantra will mean -


    "If my mother, out of special fascination, had not been devoted (obedient) then may this oblation (offering into fire) be given to my biological father, after (selecting him) finding him out; let this not fall down or become empty (without effect or result); prostrations to svadhā."


    After this the offering is given with the mantra, " I welcome (svāhā = su + āhā = good calling, this means welcome in an apprximate sense, I feel.)xxx śarma of ...gotra, pitṛ."


    Here, the word pitṛ should mean "father" because the samkalpa for the śrāddha ceremony clearly says that it is for the father of the karttā. Further, the same mantra is repeated replacing 'mātā' and 'pitā' with ’pitāmahī’ and’pitāmah’,’prapitām
    ahī’” and ’prapitāmah’, subsequently.

    Srivatsa Somadeva Sarma seems to have added an additional dimension saying that if the wife errs in following the codes for a pativrata, the oblations will be taken away by asurās and brahmarakṣases. Again he does not clearly say about the biological grandfather and the biological great grandfather, which the mantras clearly mean.



    These mantras were introduced into the āpastamba gṛhyasūtra only, since Shri Srivatsa Somadeva Sarma says so.


    The reasons can only be conjectured at this distance of time. Let me hasten to state as clearly as possible, that I do not at all contribute to the view about women which this mantra represents, or hold that it is the reality, or that, therefore, all -or, at least those who follow āpastambasūtra - should (do) have their paternity and entire lineages in doubt. I am writing this caveat specially to prevent such an impression being gained by anyone, and I am viewed as hypocritical if I happen to express my own views on subsequent occasions.


    I feel some guesses about why such a mantra was incorporated can be made.


    One possible reason might have been the overimportance given to the "gotra" or bloodline concept by āpastamba. If the biological father belonged to a gotra different from the socially accepted one, perhaps, it was believed that the oblation becomes "empty" (like an "addressee not found" letter which is sent to the DLO). This could be envisaged because the criteria of gotra, śarma and the depiction as 'father', 'grandfather',etc., will not tally in the other world when agni or his consort svadhā carries the essence of the oblation to the world of pitṝs and hence it goes to satisfy the hunger of asurās and brahmarakṣases. (actually the word used is "rakṣases" and not brahmarakṣases which are supposed to be the souls of brahmanas suffering for certain types of sins or as a result of curse - 'apahatā asurā rakṣām̐si vediṣadaḥ’ , the last word means 'sitting in or on the altar' - I am following what Shri Gopalan has said) The use of the words "ābhu: - empty, without effect or result" and "avapadyatām - fall down" seems relevant in this regard.


    However it is important to note that immediately following this request to svadhā, the known father designated by his gotra and śarman details is addressed with the svāhā mantra.


    2. There could have been a time when womenfolk had much independence, and the society, therefore, was more open to sexual freedom, than we have known about our past from various sources so far. Probably to remind the menfolk in the most poignant manner against such freedom for women in society, āpastamba could have inserted this mantra. Again this is just a conjecture and I do not hold the view that our ancestors lived in a society with lot of promiscuity, sexual abandon, etc.
    Last edited by sangom; 28-01-2011 at 02:04 PM.
    श्रेयो भूयात् सकलजनानाम् ।
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    jpoosha is offline Amateur
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    Lightbulb Homam for father

    the homam is after all performed for the father, rather than jus' calling out his name, his attributes why invoke the mother...raise unrelated questions and thereafter justify about asuras partaking the havisu...

    li'l more understanding required pl
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpoosha View Post
    the homam is after all performed for the father, rather than jus' calling out his name, his attributes why invoke the mother...raise unrelated questions and thereafter justify about asuras partaking the havisu...

    li'l more understanding required pl


    You are right in saying that the homam is for the father. But this mantram revolves around the question of the "proper" father or the biological father. The openly acknowledged father, for whom and after whose demise, these rights are performed, do not seem to fit in with the concept of rightful father as viewed by
    āpastamba. Here the mother is not "invoked" in the sense of summoning, calling, praying but squarely, her fidelity is suspected.

    In this context I have read a story, long ago, that in ancient times (may be in the past yugas) the pitrus used to be visible to the offerer of oblations. But with the advent of Kaliyuga, some great person (Sri Rama, some versions hold) found that the person who appeared before him was not his father but a servant of his. Then this great man prayed to Lord Yama and requested him to make the pitrus invisible to living humans. One version of the story goes on to add that it was from then on that the manes started coming in the form of crows.

    Thus, it looks as though there was a strong current of suspicion about the faithfulness of women to their husbands and that lies at the root of these mantras.

    Hope your doubt is cleared now.

    श्रेयो भूयात् सकलजनानाम् ।
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