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  1. #1
    Swamiramjee is offline Amateur
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    marriage in same gothra

    Dear Friends,

    You may be aware of the origin of Gothra concept and there is a strong view that marriage within same gothra is not permissible and if it becomes absolutely unavoidable then either girl or boy can be given in sweekaram etc. I have gone through many sastra books I could not find any authentic information and also I do not find any stipulation that marriage should not be conducted for boys and girls belonging to same gothra.

    Can any one throw some light on this matter. I am not convinced with replies like it is being in vouge etc. To cite an Example take "Bharatwaja gothram and Garga gothram. These are two different gothrams. So there is no objection for marriage between these gothrams. RIGHT who is Garga rishi ? He is son of BHARATWAJA & SUSEELA. So Garga did not belong to his Father's gothram.

    Therefore linking gothra concept for marriage matching needs deep study.
    Kindly let me ave your views
  2. #2
    suvarchas is offline Member
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    Same and sagothra marriages

    Quote Originally Posted by Swamiramjee View Post
    Dear Friends,

    You may be aware of the origin of Gothra concept and there is a strong view that marriage within same gothra is not permissible and if it becomes absolutely unavoidable then either girl or boy can be given in sweekaram etc. I have gone through many sastra books I could not find any authentic information and also I do not find any stipulation that marriage should not be conducted for boys and girls belonging to same gothra.

    Can any one throw some light on this matter. I am not convinced with replies like it is being in vouge etc. To cite an Example take "Bharatwaja gothram and Garga gothram. These are two different gothrams. So there is no objection for marriage between these gothrams. RIGHT who is Garga rishi ? He is son of BHARATWAJA & SUSEELA. So Garga did not belong to his Father's gothram.

    Therefore linking gothra concept for marriage matching needs deep study.
    Kindly let me ave your views

    Smirithis clearly prohibit that.Reference may be had to Vaidyanatha deekshiteeyam.The issue born out of same or sagothra marriage is deemed a chandala from a shastraic point of view.

    Also there was a training camp conducted by Kanchi Mutt for brahmins to impart knowledge/ training on such intricate issues where myself and my wife were asked to participate by H.H. in May 2008.
    There it was mentioned that such marriages result in physical disability of the progeny which would manifest on exhaustion of purva punya either in this birth or future.These are all matters of faith
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  4. #3
    RVR
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    When there are several gothras to choose, I don't know why people are again and again propagating same gothra marriage.

    Hindu system of marriages has the lowest divorce in the entire world. All of us should be proud of this achievement.

    Brahmin system probably is much more refined with gothra etc. Let us follow the time tested systems without any questioning. Let us not experiment anything new.

    All the best
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  6. #4
    kunjuppu is offline Veteran
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    i think there are atleast two older threads, that deal with this subject.

    the issue of same gothra marriage crops up, when a boy & girl, apparently to not related bloodwise, and cannot trace any relationship,wish to get married.

    otherwise, it is a mere academic discussion, and i think, in this increasingly interacting global village, not given much attention, except those immediately involved.
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  8. #5
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    Swamiramjee,

    This might help: Brahmana (Brahmin) Status

    No worries, if you get a good match within same gothra, don't worry too much about it. One can pray, seek blessings and marry. God does not punish over such things.

    Best wishes.

    Sorry did not read your post fully before. If its for academic interest, then you can read thru books on this issue. I liked the book "Hindu Samskaras" by Rajbali Pandey bcoz he traces the origin of some customs in it. He says early smrithis did not prohibit swagothra weddings. Only the later ones did.

    This book "The position of women in hindu civilization" by Anant Sadashiv Altekar is also interesting. He mentions in pages 73-74 about the prohibition of swagothra marriages being unknown even in the puranas. It first apepared in grihasutras and was enforced by later smrithis.

    You may find this interesting: http://www.hindubooks.org/sudheer_bi...ractices2.html Also the law does not prohibit such things: http://www.zeenews.com/news449934.html

    Hindu India has been invaded several times. Temples being ransacked was not uncommon. Women being violated was not uncommon either. Some vijaynagar accounts are shocking. No one knows what 'lineage" each carries in the present times.

    So if its for someone wishing to marry someone within the same gothra, maybe you can just tell them to pray and go ahead. These things really don't matter in the present times. No need to make a young couple feel guilty.

    Regards.
    Last edited by happyhindu; 23-12-2009 at 07:35 PM.
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  10. #6
    Swamiramjee is offline Amateur
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    Marriage in same gothra

    Dear Friends,

    Thanks every one for their response.
    Happyhindu sir I am obliged for the information. My intention is that now a days the inter caste marriage is increasing particularly in tamil brahmin community. Among many factors, the parental contribution to this cause is very elaborate horoscope matching that to by applying some thumb rules instead of consulting a qualified astrologer. By this I do not mean to dipense with astro matching but I would like to insist on the fact let us follow scriptures and sastras and not hearsays.
    Dear *** sir, we are concerned with Tamil brahmins and not Hindus in general. You will agree that after I T explosion the worst affected community is tamil brahmins. The number of inter caste marriage and divorce are increasing. It is really painful and our population is minimum. So it is high time that we do something to retain our identity


    suvarchas sir, I beg to differ .There is no specific prohibition in smiritis or in Vaidyanatha dikshiteeyam. I have also associated with the Sankaramutt's classes for imparting our tradation. What is said there is that taking a boy or a girl with in seven genaration of same
    family. It is not yet emphatically clear whether the gothras are by generation or by school ie gurukula students of rishis.

    What I have read may not be enough, I would request others also
    to enligten me
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  12. #7
    happyhindu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamiramjee View Post
    Dear Friends,

    Thanks every one for their response.
    Happyhindu sir I am obliged for the information. My intention is that now a days the inter caste marriage is increasing particularly in tamil brahmin community. Among many factors, the parental contribution to this cause is very elaborate horoscope matching that to by applying some thumb rules instead of consulting a qualified astrologer. By this I do not mean to dipense with astro matching but I would like to insist on the fact let us follow scriptures and sastras and not hearsays.
    Dear *** sir, we are concerned with Tamil brahmins and not Hindus in general. You will agree that after I T explosion the worst affected community is tamil brahmins. The number of inter caste marriage and divorce are increasing. It is really painful and our population is minimum. So it is high time that we do something to retain our identity


    suvarchas sir, I beg to differ .There is no specific prohibition in smiritis or in Vaidyanatha dikshiteeyam. I have also associated with the Sankaramutt's classes for imparting our tradation. What is said there is that taking a boy or a girl with in seven genaration of same
    family. It is not yet emphatically clear whether the gothras are by generation or by school ie gurukula students of rishis.

    What I have read may not be enough, I would request others also
    to enligten me
    Swamiramjee,

    If you are interested, you could read the following books:

    1) The early Brahmanical system of gotra and pravara: a translation of the Gotra-pravara-mañjarī - by Purushottama Pandita and John Brough.

    2) Ancient Indian Education: Brahmanical and Buddhist - by Radhakumud Mookerji.

    3) Buddhist incluvism - by Kristin Beise Kiblinger.

    4) Hindu Samskaras by Rajbali Pandey.

    5) The position of women in Hindu civilization - by Anant Sadashiv Altekar.

    From the above books, am able to understand the following sequence:

    --The concept of gotra, as spiritual lineage or blood relationship, was unknown in the vedic age.

    --After the vedic age, during the time of Panini (around 4th century BC), Gothra signified an academic institution of membership based on physical descent, rather than spiritual potential. This came to be determined from the smrithis, grihyasutras, dharmashastras.

    [Please also note that Panini belonged to the Pani tribe, who were considered demons (asuras ?) in the rigveda. It is noteworthy that the connotation of asura in both, the vedas and in the zend avesta, is common - the term has a positive meaning in both texts. Only from the puranic period the assurs started being painted as demonic].

    --However, the influence of Buddism also prevailed. Buddhism consided gotra as an indicator of one's spritual potential. And therefore gotra could be changed depending on upward mobility or downward mobility. It came to be considered spiritual lineage and one cud take the gotra of his guru / teacher.

    --Much later, after the beginning of the christian era (AD times), the later smrithis codified gothras as fixed descent.

    By the time of the later-day smrithis, probably the concept of gothras had changed and a mixed scenario had already been created (that is, a combination of buddhist and hindu concepts). And that probably is the reason why a bharadwaja of bengal does not cluster with a bharadwaja of tamilnadu. Meaning, genetic evidence of a common biological descent, between people professing the same gothra in various regions, is lacking.

    Any inputs from others are welcome.

    Regards.
    Last edited by happyhindu; 25-12-2009 at 05:38 PM.
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  14. #8
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    Swagotra marriages

    A good exchange. Whatever we have inherited as Vedas, Shastras and customs too have come to us thro "karna Parampara". One well informed Shastrigal a few decades ago opined that one's lineage is traced to the "trayarsheya pravaranvidha". If the "gotras" were only schools what is wrong in marrying a boy of the same school who might be of a different lineage. I do not know how many people are aware of another thought that a couple of different gotras cannot marry if two of the three rishis are common to both. It is better to follow the system until it is conclusively proved wrong. Otherwise, all these things have no meaning. I mean no offence. If we cannot convince, let us not confuse. We can concur in the name those great souls. Regards.
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  16. #9
    RVR
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    Few months back I attended a telugu smartha marriage at Hyderabad. Gothra of both boy and girl were pronounced to the entire audience in the hall, as usual three times on each side. It is probably to announce the audience that both the boy and girl doesn't belong to same gothra and the audience approve of the marriage.

    I wish the same practice is adopted in Tamilnadu also

    All the best
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    Swamiramjee is offline Amateur
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    Marriage in same gothra

    Dear Friends,

    Again and again what we say is that practices are tradational or it is being announced in public forum etc. Why I raised this issue is that marriages in our community has become a painful affair due many reasons and inter- caste marriages have become order of the day. While we want to safeguard the culture, we also contribute to give room for younger generation to flout the same by insisting on systems which are doubtful and debatable. My request is let us make the procedure of marriage as simple as told in Vedhas so that the culture is preserved
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