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Thread: Abhivadhaye

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    Abhivadhaye

    ABHIVADHAYE
    AANGIRASA BHARGASPATHIYA
    BHARADWAJA GOTHRAH
    AAPASTHAMBA SUTRAH
    YAJUSHSHAHA ADHYAAYI
    SRI KRISHNAN SARMA NAMAH
    AHAM ASMIBHO...

    This traditional style of introducing oneself that is in practice while seeking blessings from elders is the one that entices me and gives me immense pleasure because of its own Sanskrit verses and ethnic style.

    I believe that "ABHIVADHAYE" is just an ethnic social practice for a perfect introduction of oneself.


    On this subject I like to have some of my doubts clarified...

    1) WE DO "ABHIVADHAYE" WHILE WE DO "SHAASTANGHA NAMASKARAM", SEEKING BLESSINGS OF AN ELDERLY MAN WHO IS A SINGLE PERSON BLESSING US OR SOME ONE WHO IS BLESSING US ALONG WITH HIS WIFE AS A PAIR.

    - WHAT IS THE REASON AS PER SHASTRAM/SAMPRADHAYAM THAT DOES NOT PERMIT DOING "ABHIVADHAYE" TO A SINGLE ELDERLY LADY?

    2) WHY SUCH A SYSTEM OF "ABHIVADHAYE" NOT BEEN DETERMINED (As suitable) FOR BRAHMIN GIRLS?

    3) IS THIS "ABHIVADHAYE" IS JUST AN ETHINIC SOCIAL PRACTICE FOR A PERFECT INTRODUCTION OF ONESELF OR HAS SOME SORT OF RILIGIOUS / VEDIC SIGNIFICANCE?

    4) WHY ONE HAS TO KEEP BOTH THE HANDS ON THE EARS AND TELL "ABHIVADHAYE, BENDING ONESELF BEFORE DOING "SHAASTANGHA NAMASKARAM". WHY IT CAN NOT BE TOLD STANDING STRAIGHT AND KEEPING BOTH THE HANDS CLAPSED BEFORE ONE'S CHEST AND JUST HAVING THE HEAD BOWED DOWN?


    AND A GENERAL QUESTION IS -

    WHETHER PRESENT GENERATION BRAHMIN YOUNGSTERS ARE ALL HAVING THE PRACTICE OF DOING "ABHIVADHAYE" TO THE ELDERS DURING SPECIAL OCCASSIONS OF RILIGIOUS IMPORTANCE? FOR EXAMPLE, WHILE DOING “SHAASTANGHA NAMASKARAM” TO VAATHIYARS/PUROHITHARS DURING “HOMAM”, AAVANI AVITTAM, ETC….


    Hope to receive some clarity on some of my doubts....


    Cheers...

    RAVI
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    Quote Originally Posted by C RAVI View Post
    WHAT IS THE REASON AS PER SHASTRAM/SAMPRADHAYAM THAT DOES NOT PERMIT DOING "ABHIVADHAYE" TO A SINGLE ELDERLY LADY?

    2) WHY SUCH A SYSTEM OF "ABHIVADHAYE" NOT BEEN DETERMINED (As suitable) FOR BRAHMIN GIRLS?
    You may get a lot of answers justifying this tradition, but pure and simple, in our great tradition, females are second class and they matter only to the extent of producing children and serving the family. Even the great Thiruvalluvar was not immune to this nonsense.

    தற்காத்துத் தற்கொண்டாற் பேணித் தகைசான்ற
    சொற்காத்துச் சோர்விலாள் பெண்

    Why should the bar be set so high for women?

    Of course this is changing, and sooner the better!

    p.s. 1: Abivadhaye is allowed for one's own mother and everyone to whom your father would offer abivadhaye, i.e. your paternal grand and great grandmothers.

    p.s. 2: In the web use of all CAPS is akin to shouting. If you want to emphasize something use a different font color or indent it or something like that. Using all CAPS is considered very rude. Just a friendly suggestion.
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    Sri Nara ji,

    Thank you so much for your answers and suggestions...


    Cheers...

    RAVI
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    Quote Originally Posted by C RAVI View Post
    ABHIVADHAYE
    AANGIRASA BHARGASPATHIYA
    BHARADWAJA GOTHRAH
    AAPASTHAMBA SUTRAH
    YAJUSHSHAHA ADHYAAYI
    SRI KRISHNAN SARMA NAMAH
    AHAM ASMIBHO...

    This traditional style of introducing oneself that is in practice while seeking blessings from elders is the one that entices me and gives me immense pleasure because of its own Sanskrit verses and ethnic style.

    I believe that "ABHIVADHAYE" is just an ethnic social practice for a perfect introduction of oneself.


    On this subject I like to have some of my doubts clarified...

    1) WE DO "ABHIVADHAYE" WHILE WE DO "SHAASTANGHA NAMASKARAM", SEEKING BLESSINGS OF AN ELDERLY MAN WHO IS A SINGLE PERSON BLESSING US OR SOME ONE WHO IS BLESSING US ALONG WITH HIS WIFE AS A PAIR.

    - WHAT IS THE REASON AS PER SHASTRAM/SAMPRADHAYAM THAT DOES NOT PERMIT DOING "ABHIVADHAYE" TO A SINGLE ELDERLY LADY?

    2) WHY SUCH A SYSTEM OF "ABHIVADHAYE" NOT BEEN DETERMINED (As suitable) FOR BRAHMIN GIRLS?

    3) IS THIS "ABHIVADHAYE" IS JUST AN ETHINIC SOCIAL PRACTICE FOR A PERFECT INTRODUCTION OF ONESELF OR HAS SOME SORT OF RILIGIOUS / VEDIC SIGNIFICANCE?

    4) WHY ONE HAS TO KEEP BOTH THE HANDS ON THE EARS AND TELL "ABHIVADHAYE, BENDING ONESELF BEFORE DOING "SHAASTANGHA NAMASKARAM". WHY IT CAN NOT BE TOLD STANDING STRAIGHT AND KEEPING BOTH THE HANDS CLAPSED BEFORE ONE'S CHEST AND JUST HAVING THE HEAD BOWED DOWN?


    AND A GENERAL QUESTION IS -

    WHETHER PRESENT GENERATION BRAHMIN YOUNGSTERS ARE ALL HAVING THE PRACTICE OF DOING "ABHIVADHAYE" TO THE ELDERS DURING SPECIAL OCCASSIONS OF RILIGIOUS IMPORTANCE? FOR EXAMPLE, WHILE DOING “SHAASTANGHA NAMASKARAM” TO VAATHIYARS/PUROHITHARS DURING “HOMAM”, AAVANI AVITTAM, ETC….


    Hope to receive some clarity on some of my doubts....


    Cheers...

    RAVI
    hi ravi
    a small correction..i thinklike this..i belong to this gothra too...
    ABHIVADAYE...AANGIRASAH....BARHASPATYA...BHARADWAJ A...
    TRAYA RISHEYA...PRAVARANVITHA....BHARADWAJA GOTRAHA
    AAPASTHANMBHA SUTRAHA....SAMA SAKHA/YAJUSAKHA
    ADHYAYI.......SARMA NAMAHAM AHAM ASMI BHUOOH...


    REGRADS
    TBS
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    Sri Tbs ji,

    I have missed to include "BARHASPATYA...BHARADWAJ A...TRAYA RISHEYA...PRAVARANVITHA....

    Thank you so much for correcting me in a perfect manner.

    I could now realize my mistake in my ABHIVADHYE....I did a mistake simply because my last ABHIVADHYE was 10 years ago while seeking blessings of my GURUSWAMY during AYYAPPAN POOJAI.

    Still hoping to receive some clue of my questions pertaining to the topic..

    Cheers...

    RAVI
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    Abhivadhaye is just a means of introduction. Dont see chauvenism in each and every piece. ofcourse, they were. But I dont think this as a piece included under this. At those ages, males were the teachers and in order to introduce yourself, it was found to be the proper way.

    There are even many don't to this.
    1. You should not tell abhivadhaye when a group of elders are there (even males)
    2. Even you can do prostrate namaskar to your mother, even if she is single.

    So, you cannot blindly say that this is against females. Might be the usage is restricted... Do you think in those days, females were treated unequally???. Garghi, maitreyi, anusya, thara, so many so many legends were there. The society was almost bright in that vedic time. Only in the medieval age, it got some confusions and males treated females as inferior.

    Can you say something equivalent to svayamvara???
    There are certian rights provided especially for them... Am sorry nara for confronting you.

    Anyhow, the mean of abhivadhaye is to intro yourself and get blessings. Even the elderly persons should reciprocate the abhivadahye with their blessings in the same way. I dont know how many oldiez are doing that??? But being a presnt generation guy, I myself will do that in almost all occassions and also whenever I see older persons.

    My question is how many middle generation people are doing this whole-heartedly??? What about my friend RAVI??

    Pranams
    Kann Kalikkumpadi kandukonden Kadambadaviyil
    pann kalikkum kural veenaiyum kaiyum payodharamum
    mann kalikkum pachai vannamum aghi mathangar kula
    penngalil thondria emperumaatithan perazhage

    (Abirami Andhadhi)
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    Sri Durgadasan avargal,

    You shot a very right question on me - "My question is how many middle generation people are doing this whole-heartedly??? What about my friend RAVI??"

    I didn't do ABHIVADHYE for the last 10 years.....I feel for it...

    But this was/is not due to the negligence. The reasons are - Living in this mechanical life, dedicating our self completely to our career in this highly competitive world and missing religious ceremonies, living away from our home, from our tradition etc..etc...In concise, not getting an opportunity to do ABHIVADHAYE

    But the point is I still carry the values of Brahmin Culture, respect them, loves them and yarns to follow them.

    I have questioned in my very first post under general question category exactly that you have repeated in your conclusion.

    I have admitted that I could not get an opportunity to do ABHIVADHYE due to missing the opportunity to be at the right place at the right time, owing to my career and many other reasons. But I wanted to know whether present generation boys who are still students, living with their parents and attending almost every occasion are doing ABHIVADHAYE?

    I feel almost all my questions have been reasonably answered. I could evaluate myself with that of my assumptions.

    The 2 questions for which I could not get any clarification so far is -

    2) Why such a System of doing "ABHIVADHAYE" not been determined (As suitable) for Brahmin Girls?

    4) Why one has to keep both the hands on the ears and tell "ABHIVADHAYE, bending oneself before doing "SHAASTANGHA NAMASKARAM". Why it can not be told standing straight and keeping both the hands clasped before one’s chest and just having the head bowed down?



    I would be happy to receive some comments from our esteemed members on my left over doubts….

    Cheers..

    RAVI

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    I stopped saying abhivadhaye. I don't know sanskrit. Once after reciting Sundara Ghantam, I invited everyone forthe Pattabishekam recital. After the recital, I was performing namaskaram to all the persons elder to me. One gentleman who knew me very well asked me say abhivadhaye. I said abhivadhaye in Tamizh. He said he was not too impressed. well, I could not help it. After that incident, I did not say abhivadhaye at all. But when my father passed away, one Vadhiyar came to perform the last rites. Just before performing namaskaram to him,I cautioned that I would say abhivadhaye in Tamizh. He listened to my abhivadhaye patiently; then he pointed out the bits I left out and wrote down the abhivadhaye in Sanskrit for me. I still keep it safely.
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    There were many women who were well versed in the vedas. Examples are Yami, Gargi, Lopamudra, Ghosha, Maitreyi...

    Women supposedly were relegated to the "lower" role in the dharma shastra times or puranic times (from about 300 AD onwards)...

    Reasons for the downward trend in the position of women is unknown.

    One guess is that there was mixing of hordes from the Mauryan times into the Kushan times. No one really knows what actually happened then.

    The dharma shastras surfaced as law books prescribing codes of conduct for various groups of people, in various parts of India, soon after the Kushan times.

    The dharmashastras supposedly ended up creating a rigid birth-based class system, and ended up putting and keeping the role of women firmly down...but it may be possible that women were still entitiled to get an education even in the puranic times in certain regions (this needs more digging)....
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyhindu View Post
    There were many women who were well versed in the vedas. Examples are Yami, Gargi, Lopamudra, Ghosha, Maitreyi...

    Women supposedly were relegated to the "lower" role in the dharma shastra times or puranic times (from about 300 AD onwards)...

    Reasons for the downward trend in the position of women is unknown.

    One guess is that there was mixing of hordes from the Mauryan times into the Kushan times. No one really knows what actually happened then.

    The dharma shastras surfaced as law books prescribing codes of conduct for various groups of people, in various parts of India, soon after the Kushan times.

    The dharmashastras supposedly ended up creating a rigid birth-based class system, and ended up putting and keeping the role of women firmly down...but it may be possible that women were still entitiled to get an education even in the puranic times in certain regions (this needs more digging)....
    Sri Happyhindu ji,

    Superb explanations.....

    For a long time I was pondering about what made the SHASTRAMS and SAMPRADHAYAMS to exclude girls/ladies to do ABHINADHAYE while seeking blessing from elders?

    Sri Swaminathasharma ji has indicated that the reason for this exclusion is - Girls being gaining two different Gothram identity [One from her father before marriage & another from husband after marriage], were denied from this due to un-uniformity.

    After knowing this reason, I think now that - Why "ABHIVADHAYE" verses were not established in 2 different ways, distinguishing them in terms of before marriage and after marriage by including their father name and husband name respectively?

    On this thought of mine, I feel that your comments on social systems from the beginning making some distinctions (may or may not be valid/reasonable) based on the Gender stands good.

    Let us wait and watch if some one could dig further on this matter and could make things understand clearly...

    I would be glad to know the answer to one of my questions as per my first post, starting the thread -Why particular position/body language was determined while doing “ABHIVADHAYE” ?

    Cheers...

    RAVI
    Last edited by C RAVI; 09-11-2009 at 08:20 PM.
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