Thread: God...Why?

KRS >>>God to them is an all loving, all pervasive power, not infused with any human qualities.>>>

KRS,

If God is 'All powerful', then he would also, equally have the power to occupy a human or stone form.. Do you agree with me.

sapr333,

You seem to ask the right question in the first part - 'Why we need God?'. The answer is very simple from the viewpoint of 'monism'. It is to make sure that we do not undergo the countless cycles of 'birth' and 'rebirth' so that we can avoid all the miseries these cycles cause.

Now your second question, 'What if God is not there' is a question beyond faith. From a logical point of view on it's face this question is wrong. Because this question can only stem from a knowledge that says that all the Universe we see was not created and ever existed so. We know this is wrong from the carbon data - the universe as we speak is developing in to something else. Then the question is, what caused it? Once you then agree to the premise that this world was created at one time (big bang theory) then one has to accept the fact that something caused that creation. That cause is what we call 'God'.

Originally Posted by sapr333

The most 'logical' deductions about God have come to us not from the 'intellectual' side, but rather from the 'mystical' side of all religions. It is remarkable how this side of all religions agree on the nature of God. God to them is an all loving, all pervasive power, not infused with any human qualities.

So, it seems to me then, 'monism' is probably the best way to describe God. Because I believe that the absolute morality of this world is dependent on the svadharma that God has given us all. He also has created the good and evil. I do not believe in a Satan as the embodiment of evil. Evil and sin arise out of ignorance not out of any inherent badness of all human beings: Courtesy K.R.S

Why we need God? What if God is not there?

sapr333,

Please define 'occupy'.

Regards,
KRS

Originally Posted by sapr333

KRS >>>God to them is an all loving, all pervasive power, not infused with any human qualities.>>>

KRS,

If God is 'All powerful', then he would also, equally have the power to occupy a human or stone form.. Do you agree with me.

Thanks K.R.S for the wonderful response.

I fully agree to the premise, God as the cause of creation (or) First cause. In this light, monoism should be agreeing to the point that Universe started at one point, ie, its finite, and if this is accepted, monism would tread well with science & fall in line with 'Big Bang'.

Now back, to the first point.. According to Monism,If the need of God is to reduce the cycle of re-births, so whats the role of God here? Possibly an Absolute Arbitor / Absolute Justice maintainer/ even Absolute Law giver? Im sure God only should have set the law/algorithm for re-births?

Regarding God & Stone,Man,I carefully chose not to use the word 'manifestation' here. My point is, If God is all powerful, then he can also be equally powerful to choose any 'Form' of matter/anti-matter. Hence, the all powerful God can also can chose to take a 'Form of Stone' or 'Form of Man'.

PS: If next few forth coming posts we will attempt to conceptualize the 'conept/nature of God' based upon Monism.

This is a very nice conversation b/w both of you...hope its ok to join in...

For the sake of this discussion, am thinking of transforming into an atheist for a while..

Lets say there really is no god. But we have all 'imagined" it to be so. Then what happens, to us, to the world, to existentiality?

Why does each one of us think that there is a God?

Is it in our system to think that way or is it based on observation / unexplained external factors, questions about how the self came to exist or such things or some more things?

Basically why do each one of us 'imagine' that there is a god?

Did god really set any algorith for a rebirth or is there a point of freewill in the soul that chooses to have a diff experiance than the former one (on its own)?

If god can or does, is it not possible for the soul of a man to manifest as a stone?

Regards.

Originally Posted by happyhindu

Lets say there really is no god. But we have all 'imagined" it to be so. Then what happens, to us, to the world, to existentiality?
Regards.

There is a popular saying amongst the neutralists who tread both the aetheist and theist lines(a kind of opportunists), who says, Oh! God, If there is a God, Oh Heaven, If there is a heaven, please take me to that heaven..

If there is no God, then human race will have no accountablity towards their actions, cos there is no one superior among them, apart from their own parents/wife.One can escape the eyes of the law and resort to debauchery freely. Who in this world can question him? Even law cannot catch hold of him.

One can resort to killing or incest inside the close doors and live a cannibal life, without getting spotted by law-man of the land..On what basis, you gonna point him wrong, though we know he is wrong!! There must be a stratum/bench mark for all there, and without God, or a SUPER HUMAN, we loose that stratum.

Similarly, for all human comprehensions, we need a benchmark. be it moral/justice/law.. We are all looking for an absolute law giver, who can give a law/justice irrespective of caste/colour/religion/race.. Who could be that missing personality?(Can a Prime Minister/King/swamiji fit in to that shoes?

The next philosophical question comes is, What the puropose of my life?(in this world) Why Im here in this world? What makes things moves around? What will happen to me after death? Whats wrong if I resort to debaunchery? As a child mom nourished me, then dad took care of me, then wife, then childrens took care in the death bed, and finally, who will take care of me, till last. The cycle must go on right!!.Yes, If we equate ourselves to animals, then there is a different point to discuss here..(will talk on this seperately)


These kind of human feelings and questions have found answers in Concept of God.. And God is not a distant dream, rather, he is also a super human being, who had communed with the man kind, interms of prayers/rituals/revelations/prophets/Avadhars etc..

Even then, one can 'Reject God' meaningfully.. But looking around the world, they say, the concept of God has helped the countries move up in science/economy/social life/value for life, when compared to those, who never believed in God.Even the moral standards/constitution on the aetheist countries follow the theist constitution..

Historically, killing others is proved wrong only with the concept of God, not by aetheists. Without the concept of "God' mankind would have been following the jungle law, just like another advanced species of Orangs..Thankfully, concept of God like Krishna/J.Christ/Mahavir/Buddha etc set some standards and brought dignity to human life and moving them from cannibal and jungle life.Here comes the role of God communing with mankind, revealing through holy persons, about gods' agenda.

And intersting counterview given to Richards Dawkins is.. Look, I can kill and rape some one, who are you to stop me!! Who are you to say im doing wrong? If so on what basis? To the max you can kill me, but I have an AK-47, so u cant.. How do we handle this situation?

PS: Starting from Aristotle,eminent philosophers have tried to dis-prove the existence of God..But none could achieve as on date"

Happy Hindu,

here I wish to say " Why the man-kind need God?" in 4 broad spectrums

1) WISDOM: We know that each one of us lack knowledge one or other way. We wish there was someone very wise and mature that we could confide in and ask advice in a higher level. Even the people we adore are busy with their own lives; and there must be some boday, at any hour of the day or night and expect them to listen to all our problems. A quest!!

2) Morals:- We need some one to tell you whats right and wrong? A dilemma still exists among Nazis and mankind, that, if Hitler is right/wrong... Who is there to give absolute moral law and justice? Who is going to give justice for debaunchery?

3) Unconditional Love:- We may not have got it from parents/life partners/Children... Who in this world can give unconditional love?

4)Fulfillment of this life:-

Everyone has a reason to get out of bed in the morning, and many can be happy without God. But what about fulfillment?? an inner peace even in the midst of difficult circumstances, a certain knowledge of the meaning and purpose of one's life despite one's mortality, a true sense that our deepest needs have been met (as opposed to the temporary satisfaction of wealth, entertainment, success, praise, etc. that ultimately leaves one craving more)?

God created us for a purpose, and we will find fulfillment and peace when we do what he designed us to do(Purpose of life)

sapr333, my answers are in 'blue'

Originally Posted by sapr333

Thanks K.R.S for the wonderful response.

I fully agree to the premise, God as the cause of creation (or) First cause. In this light, monoism should be agreeing to the point that Universe started at one point, ie, its finite, and if this is accepted, monism would tread well with science & fall in line with 'Big Bang'.

Now back, to the first point.. According to Monism,If the need of God is to reduce the cycle of re-births, so whats the role of God here? Possibly an Absolute Arbitor / Absolute Justice maintainer/ even Absolute Law giver? Im sure God only should have set the law/algorithm for re-births?
Brahman is without any attribute, especially no human ones. When the Universe is created and destryed by Ishwara, no one knows why (that's why we call it 'Leela'). Again, once the world is created, it has both manifest and unmanifest parts, which all act according to a grand design.

All religions one way or other look up to 'being' with God as the final aim of the human beings (for various reasons)

Again Hinduism does not look upon God as the 'law giver'.

Regarding God & Stone,Man,I carefully chose not to use the word 'manifestation' here. My point is, If God is all powerful, then he can also be equally powerful to choose any 'Form' of matter/anti-matter. Hence, the all powerful God can also can chose to take a 'Form of Stone' or 'Form of Man'.
How about 'infused'? In Hinduism, prakriti emanates from Brahman. So this 'God' stuff permeates within all sentient and insentient things.

PS: If next few forth coming posts we will attempt to conceptualize the 'conept/nature of God' based upon Monism.

Originally Posted by KRS

1>>Brahman is without any attribute, especially no human ones. When the Universe is created and destryed by Ishwara, no one knows why (that's why we call it 'Leela'). Again, once the world is created, it has both manifest and unmanifest parts, which all act according to a grand design.

2>>Again Hinduism does not look upon God as the 'law giver'.

3>>How about 'infused'? In Hinduism, prakriti emanates from Brahman. So this 'God' stuff permeates within all sentient and insentient things.

Just a reminder..At the moment we are setting our dialogue based on Monism&Advaidham.

1&3) There is a 16th century paradox.. If God is an all powerful creator(you agree with this too),then, can he create a word so big, that, he cannot destory/lift it!!

If God is all powerful, then he should equally be powerful to take any forms/shapes/nature. If God loves his people (as you agreed), then he should take any form (understandable to humans) and reveal to us, than being a distant imaginary hero. In my view, that point holds good in explaining 'Lord Rama as avadhar of God, or worshipping of Idols with the faith God is there in the idol. btw,Do you call Lord Rama is(as) infused with God, or God's avadhar?

2) How do you define the logic/algorithm of Rebirth... Do you think God has no judicial role in rebirths? We always say Bad-deed and good deed... Who decides this good deed or bad deed? Im sure it must be God.. If humans have to decide our own good deeds/karmic effects, then according to Germans, hitler is a great king, who killed 6Mn jews for the cause of german economy and superiority!! For Germans, Hitler should have immediately reached oneness with Brahma, for all the good he did under King's Dharma.

In this light, I think, God should have a role as Absolute Law giver & Absolute Justice.

Yes, if you believe, 'We as role players enacting the pre written will of God', then my points don't hold good. But I doubt if Monism and Advaitham says so.