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  1. #1
    Nacchinarkiniyan's Avatar
    Nacchinarkiniyan is offline Senior Member
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    How Varna/Caste System Harmed Brahmins

    The Brahmins of the early Vedic period who first thought of the Varnashrama system were great Rishis. Their idea of the system was entirely different from what it turned out to be later.

    The rigid Varna system was not their idea. It is a total corruption of the original concept.

    The Varna Dharma as originally envisaged classified the Brahmins as an Intellectual class. The corrupt caste system believes that you bacame a Brahmin by birth.

    How was the Hindu society especially the Brahmins affected by the rigid caste system?

    I am not talking about the divisions caused by it and the atrocities committed in its name. We have one too many books detailing all that. This thread is not about that.

    There is no way to ensure that all the people born in the same family have 140+ IQ. When this is not true of any family it is foolish to think an entire community would consist of high IQ intellectuals. Again application varies from person to person. Even a high IQ is not suffecient.

    Vedas are extremely difficult to learn and recite. There is a lot of emphasis on the pronunciation, utterance of letters, and intonation. This requires a more than average IQ and tremendous application.

    There is write up about it here.

    http://www.svbf.org/sringeri/journal.../chanting.html

    In the early Vedic period only those who had these abilities were chosen for this job. Other than reciting the Vedas, they were expected to seek Brahman. That is why this class of people were called Brahmins or the seekers of Brahman.

    They were chosen by their ability and not by birth.

    Our caste system was not like the Japanese caste syatem, which placed the Samuarais (Warriors) at the top.

    In later years the caste system became more rigid and only those who were Brahmins by birth were expected to recite the Vedas.

    What the caste system did not take into account was that you can not group people like you group inanimate things. No two human being are the same.

    This had an unintended effect on the community. Not all the children of Brahmins could recite the Vedas properly. Their mental abilities also varied. Many of them did not have the right aptitude. A life devoted to seeking the Brahman was not everybody's cup of tea.

    It was easier for the Kshatriyas. You can become a king even if you are not courageous and are not a good fighter.

    But learning of the Vedas is not like that. You either have the ability or you do not. There is no midway. We find a number of Purohits who do not know how to recite the Mantras properly or have knowledge about the rituals even after years of training.

    In the engineering college we had to learn carpentary. In spite of my best efforts I could not master it. My teacher was from the carpenter community. One day I remarked to him that it was easy for him because he is born in the community. He told that he learnt it only by years of practice and not by birth and said that his son is not a good carpenter in spite of his best efforts to teach him carpentary.

    The Brahmins who by birth did not have the mental abilities to recite the Vedas had to choose some other professsion.

    But the Varna Dharma prevented that. Though some of the smiritis did speak of the professions which a Brahmin could take up when he is in distress it was not practical.

    The injunction about the Brahmins not seeking riches applied only to the Veda reciting Brahmins who were very happy seeking Brahman. People respected them and gave them Dhana.

    But what about the Brahmin who could not recite the Vedas? Should he idle away his time cursing the fate which has made him take birth in a Brahmin family? He was neither respected nor given Dhana.

    The Brahmins started seeking ways and means of earning a living. Even 1000 years back they had sought other professions as evidenced by the drama Mricchakatika where the hero Charudatta is a merchant. The thief in the play is also a Brahmin. This play also revals a startling fact that only Male Brahmins were allowed to speak Sanskrit. Women and other castes were not allowed to even speak Sanskrit. What a horrible system?

    Varna Dharma which bound people to a particular profession enslaved the Brahmins and other castes and prevented individuals from developing according to their own aptitude and ability.

    Throughout history it is seen that progress has been made only by individual efforts. Individuals have changed the society. Society in general does not like changes. But individuals by their efforts have brought about a change. Hinduism more than any other religion emphasizes the individual. It always talks about the relationship between the individual and the supreme God.

    If the Brahmin community had confined themselves to what was enjoined by the Varna Dharma, they would have become extinct by now. The Brahmins have survived and prospered because all of them did not follow the Varna system.

    The varna system reduced the Brahmins to a class of mendicants or worse.

    Again Manu Smirti expressly forbids any men of the three twice-born castes from dwelling in any other country other than Aryavarta. Arya varta did not include the Deccan peninsula.

    The brahmins broke this rule in order to survive.

    I remember one of our respected Brahmin administrators speaking proudly in an interview that one of the herditary profesion of the Tamil Brahmins was Culinary art. I used to make an annual trip to Chennai during the Music season. It was not only the music, but also the food served by Arusuvai Natarajan and Jnanambica mess which attracted us.

    Let us dump the varna system to the dust bin of history. Let us forget the racial theory that anyone is born superior because he was born in a community.

    All the great Tamil Brahmins like Ramana Maharishi, Swami Sivananda, Ramnujam, C.V. Raman and a host of others became great due to their own efforts and not because they were born Brahmins.
    Last edited by Nacchinarkiniyan; 26-09-2007 at 07:32 PM.
    யாதும் ஊரே யாவரும் கேளிர்.

    நச்சிநார்கினியன்.
  2. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
  3. #2
    Chintana is offline Senior Member
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    Dear Sri Nacchinarkiniyan,

    This is a great piece of information. However I find the title a bit too provocative.

    Something a little milder such as "Varna System Today Not True to Original Form" might be better.

    From a language perspective I am not in favor of the word "destroy" in any title that carries the words "Varna System".

    I would like for you to change it. My suggestion was only a suggestion. You could come up with an alternative title too.

    If there are technical problems please let me know. I will change it to the title you choose.



    Regards,
    Chintana
    Last edited by Chintana; 26-09-2007 at 07:11 PM. Reason: Added Sentences
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  5. #3
    Nacchinarkiniyan's Avatar
    Nacchinarkiniyan is offline Senior Member
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    The idea is to provoke people into thinking. I do not think I have been successful. The number of viewers are still very small.
    யாதும் ஊரே யாவரும் கேளிர்.

    நச்சிநார்கினியன்.
  6. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
  7. #4
    Chintana is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nacchinarkiniyan View Post
    The idea is to provoke people into thinking. I do not think I have been successful. The number of viewers are still very small.
    Yes. From an administrative point of view such "provocations" have proven counter productive as we have all levels of adherents visiting this forum.

    The more orthodox members have taken offense at milder ideas.

    I requested this to keep the peace of the forum.

    No provocations please.

    Regards,
    Chintana
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  9. #5
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    vijisesh is offline Active Member
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    No Mr.Nacchi,

    May be u feel so because of the Cricketing season !
    Soccer season there ! may be ??
    There is enough provocation alright ! but my feeling is much needless energy is spent on other discussions , and everyone has his freedom of choice !
    Let the GOOD things continue !
    Thanks
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  11. #6
    Nacchinarkiniyan's Avatar
    Nacchinarkiniyan is offline Senior Member
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    O.K. Chintana.

    My idea is to make the Tamil Brahmins think and not hurt their feelings.

    Please change it to How the Varna/Caste system harmed the Brahmins.

    Thanks,
    யாதும் ஊரே யாவரும் கேளிர்.

    நச்சிநார்கினியன்.
  12. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
  13. #7
    Chintana is offline Senior Member
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    Changing the title is going to take time as we have no quick options.

    Please bear with me.

    Regards,
    Chintana
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    vijisesh is offline Active Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nacchinarkiniyan View Post
    The Brahmins of the early Vedic period who first thought of the Varnashrama system were great Rishis. Their idea of the system was entirely different from what it turned out to be later.


    Let us dump the varna system to the dust bin of history. Let us forget the racial theory that anyone is born superior because he was born in a community.

    All the great Tamil Brahmins like Ramana Maharishi, Swami Sivananda, Ramnujam, C.V. Raman and a host of others became great due to their own efforts and not because they were born Brahmins.

    Good Thought!

    Too much of Varna subject here !, even Varuna Devata will be upset and stop the rain !

    We need to know " The Essence of Vedas " and its contemporary prescription , suitable and adaptable for the present day geniuses !

    Last edited by vijisesh; 27-09-2007 at 07:51 PM.
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  17. #9
    malgova.mango is offline Veteran
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    Dear Nachinarkineyan


    Your assumptiions are mis-leading. Rishis have not developed any system. They system is revealed to them. Time and again I 've repeated this . As the saying goes “Muthal konal murrum konal” one wrong view then one's whole understanding goes wrong.


    Their pursuit for knowledge is very intense and they want to see the order of things as it is.


    That's why they are called “SEERS” (Mantra Dhrishta)


    That's why we are called the followers of SANANTANA DHARMA (EVER PRESENT ORDER).


    The intelligence prevading the universe is revealed to them WHY because they pursued it.


    The very sanskrit alphabets are enough to tell that the akshara's are not from ordinary human intelligence but of Ishvara's.


    The misunderstandiing that the caste system is created for convinence and brahmins benefitted is very erroneous. In fact, our forefathers took exterme austerities and avoid indulgence they clearly showed us what is important to pursue.


    Many of them lived a simple life not because of circumstances but by choice, They clearly saw the pursuit of artha and kama alone should not dominate one's life. They showed us discipline (aacharam) is more important and set forth various samskaras. They also showed us upto what extent one should pursue for artha and kama . That's why we have Artha shastra and Kama sutra – isn't it?


    To say women should not read sanskrit and all is not as per vedic spirit. There may be breaches but it is not the spirit.


    That's why for learning we go to godesses “Sarasvathi” . The seers are not only Males but also FEMALES. There are number of (“mantra drishta” in female also) . That we put down female is very absurd. Infact Mami's have more of a say than Mama's is it not true?




    The fittest will survive , why then only we strive.


    But remember the intention of shastras is to set what is proper for a peaceful existence.


    On heredity, “appankku pillai thappama piranthirukkiran” is the general rule. There may be exceptions. It is easy to pick up the necessary skill from a family than to go and learn something new. This is how it was for hundreds of year that is the norm. This modern education is only a new concept in practice for 50 or more years.


    A fisherman son even though he goes to school he is expected to do what for his livelihood .
    A buisnessman son even though he goes to school he is expected to do what for his livelihood?
    What is proper here? Could you please explain.


    Malgova.mango
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  19. #10
    Ramaa is offline Banned
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    This picking on Brahmins on a most whimsical and unscientific basis by the Brahmins themselves has ruined this community. No other community denigrates itself as the Brahmins do of themselves. All because they think they are smart!

    Vinaasa kaale vipareetha buddhi!
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