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  1. #1
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    Discrimination - can it be stopped?

    According to UN:Understanding Discrimination - print

    Your birth, religion, race, height, nationality, language, education, money and even your gender are factors that most people make quick judgments about. Unfortunately, many of these judgments are based on biases and assumptions.

    Can we eliminate or should we even try to eliminate discrimination? I do not think it is possible.

    The discrimination outlawed by the country and some other birth based discrimination should be stopped.

    The society should change through education and economics.

    In US social discrimination goes on, forced integration is very difficult. The middle class runs from poor neighborhood. Even in Football teams the black players and white players do not integrate.

    There is strong enforcement of laws against discrimination based on race, color, gender, or disability in housing, jobs etc.
  2. #2
    kunjuppu is offline Veteran
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    prasad,

    are we not defined by our sense of discrimination. i mean the word in a 'meaning neutral' term.

    we discriminate against somebody, something, some ideas, peoples, religions.

    same way, we discriminate or prejudiced for somebody, something, some ideas, peoples, religions.

    that is what makes us humans. even the goodest of people hate. they hate the bad, dont they?

    so what you are demand, is unreasonable.

    n'est pas?
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  4. #3
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    Mr K,
    My very point. I see in various post people saying 'stop discriminating'. I think it is an unfinished sentence without qualification. So when we say stop discrimination we have to qualify it by specifying what discrimination we are talking about.

    I am not demanding anything, I am just raising awareness of the meaning of the word discrimination.
    Last edited by prasad1; 30-11-2011 at 05:27 PM.
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  6. #4
    biswa is offline Veteran
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    But the big reservation debate aside, how many people here have really been hurt by discrimination? I must confess that I have not been victimized by discrimination (yet). Isolated nastiness by various groups yest, but not discrimination. Of course I don't care if white people invite me to their SuperBowl parties or will ever consider my son as a dating option for their daughter. Other than that I think if you have something to offer: money, brains, hard work, you should get by fine.
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  8. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by prasad1 View Post
    According to UN:Understanding Discrimination - print

    Your birth, religion, race, height, nationality, language, education, money and even your gender are factors that most people make quick judgments about. Unfortunately, many of these judgments are based on biases and assumptions.

    Can we eliminate or should we even try to eliminate discrimination? I do not think it is possible.

    The discrimination outlawed by the country and some other birth based discrimination should be stopped.

    The society should change through education and economics.

    In US social discrimination goes on, forced integration is very difficult. The middle class runs from poor neighborhood. Even in Football teams the black players and white players do not integrate.

    There is strong enforcement of laws against discrimination based on race, color, gender, or disability in housing, jobs etc.
    Dear Shri Prasad,

    You seem to be bent on "calling a spade a spade": but will the other immigrants from India or elsewhere to US agree? I very much doubt.

    When I wrote that that only certain population segments do the lowly menial jobs in the US and these segments are discriminated in very subtle manner, Yamaka was quick to refute it citing Obama, Clinton and 'millions of other instances'.

    So, I will be more interested in knowing how you respond to these'justifications' by people who intend to paint a glorious image of US even though they will agree that MLK did a phenomenal job for the African Americans. May be everything is hunky dory now, I don't know.

    How do you view the fact that "Even in Football teams the black players and white players do not integrate."?

    There is a saying in Malayalam, "enthum ceyyaam mahataam" meaning, people considered great can do anything (they have the licence for that). To me it looks as though it should be amended slightly to "enthum ceyyaam american saayippinum madaamaikkum". The opinions of Kunjuppu and Biswa seem to strengthen this view, imho.
    Last edited by sangom; 30-11-2011 at 09:37 AM.
    श्रेयो भूयात् सकलजनानाम् ।
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  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyhindu View Post
    Why is discrimination of other forms compared to discrimination in front of God?

    It is so miserably shameful to think that a social empire of discrimination was created from "spiritual imperialism", and continues to stem from spiritual arrogance with a ridiculous attitude of "only me spiritual".

    How can anyone oppress and suppress people using violence, or endorse such things, and then claim to be spiritual people with sattva gunas, i wonder..

    Surely such people must be entered into the guinness book of world records, for no one before them or after them would ever think of creating or upholding such an abominable system.
    Happy,

    "Discrimination" in the ordinary and all-pervading sense means 'to distinguish', 'to separate', 'to treat differently on some basis', etc. As Shri Kunjuppu has said in post#3, are we not defined by our sense of discrimination in a 'meaning neutral' sense of the word? Further he adds that it is this 'discrimination' that makes us humans. He is therefore of the view that what Prasad demands, is unreasonable.

    This opens to me an as yet unseen aspect of discrimination to me. Any 'egalitarian' society by the 'meaning neutral' sense of the term should have no discrimination and there must be complete equality of all people. But now it looks as though there is, strictly speaking, no true egalitarian society, despite some claims to that effect. And it becomes a simple question of "my discrimination is good and salutary, yours is bad and devilish". I find it difficult to endorse such a view. If one set of discrimination in the US (in Football teams the black players and white players do not integrate; there is strong enforcement of laws against discrimination based on race, color, gender, or disability in housing, jobs etc., which underscores the possibility of such discrimination happening in the absense of these laws and their strict enforcement) is creditable and praiseworthy, then why not another set of discrimination based on some other yardstick in some other place?

    I feel Shri Senthil, Shri Suraju et al are right in their views, after all.
    श्रेयो भूयात् सकलजनानाम् ।
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  12. #7
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    Dear Sangom Sir,

    Am disappointed to read your post. How can anyone compare racism in the US, and casteism in India.

    Am often baffled where is the equivalence of comparison, between racism and casteism. And why do people quote racism / other forms of discrimination as though that somehow justifes casteism.

    To me, casteism is the grand ancestor of racism, its a more dangerous beast than racism. It plays on the "religious mind" and breaks the very spirit of a man.

    To inflict violence on a man, suppress him into slavery, categorise him as fit for only one birth, declare him not releasable from slavery, to deny him certain rituals, and allow him only certain stuff (to time and again show him he is not capable of anything more in the scheme of god-realisation), is comparable to racism???

    Between apples and oranges, the only common thing is both are fruits and share some common nutrients. Similarly the only commonality between racism and casteism is violence and slavery. Apart from that i wud never draw an equivalence between both.

    Racism is not enmeshed as part of rituals into a religion. Racism is an open enemy. It can be fought against. But casteism works its way thru "spiritualism" over generations, it works its way into a man's spirit, breaks it down and makes him beleive he is fit for only that much.

    Frankly sir, i think casteism is a frankenstein monstor created and honed by the feudal laws of dharmashastras. If brahmins stood to gain from so-called 'middle-castes' during colonial period and vice-versa, then all that anti-brahmanism (and politics associated with it), would not have happened.

    Maybe Time decided enuf is enuf. Maybe Kalki came and went, and cud do nothing. Maybe Bali came (as Indra), so did Savarni Manu; and both cud do nothing.

    We are living way ahead in the technological world, i feel. So Time had to do something about it. And here we are.

    If even now, some people continue to draw equivalence whereever possible, merely to somehow justify casteism, dunno what else to say. Hope they just take note, the future does not belong to them.

    What i sense in the posts of prasad1 and suraju is not about lack of a true egalitarian society, its about somehow justifying casteism infact.
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  14. #8
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    Happy,
    You do great injustice to me and my post. You either did not understand my post or chose to interpret it in your narrow view.
    What i sense in the posts of prasad1 and suraju is not about lack of a true egalitarian society, its about somehow justifying casteism infact.
    If you read my original post it very clearly says that birth based discrimination should be eliminated.

    The discrimination outlawed by the country and some other birth based discrimination should be stopped.
    By the way my post never mentioned caste, I suppose you need to see the true world, please remove your caste colored glasses.
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  16. #9
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    Sangom sir,
    Any 'egalitarian' society by the 'meaning neutral' sense of the term should have no discrimination and there must be complete equality of all people. But now it looks as though there is, strictly speaking, no true egalitarian society, despite some claims to that effect.
    You are absolutely right, to envisage a society without some discrimination is an Utopian dream, and even not desired.
    For example we do want excellence in life and that itself is a discrimination. For instance discrimination based on intelligence, education, ingenuity, etc is desired in job environment.
    Similarly personal discrimination in social life is not controlled by law, and condoned by law. I can discriminate as to who can be my friend, and is same is true for you.

    By law certain forms of discrimination is illegal (depending on the location). There are other aberrant practices that should be outlawed, and we should work on it. For instance in US the Hispanic Americans are suspected of being illegal and discriminated, and that is wrong.
    Last edited by prasad1; 30-11-2011 at 05:20 PM.
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  18. #10
    ozone is offline Senior Member Achievements:
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    What i sense in the posts of prasad1 and suraju is not about lack of a true egalitarian society, its about somehow justifying casteism infact.
    Quite the contrary. Caste based discriminations have long been forgotten by the junta. They exists only for political reasons.
    Infact they resurface only in verbose form if only to keep the more prevalent discriminations from being given a critical view
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