Thread: Dravidian Nationalism and caste reservation

Originally Posted by veekay

Staunch Iyengar's idea of MTDNA and YDNA stuff is the same kind of crap that the British tried to achieve by dividing Indians using the Aryan Invasion Theory.

What do the British have to do with the authenticity and relevance of genetic differences?

It is purely a natural tendency for human races to be averse against other races they encounter, it is a basic reflex. Only political correctness and unnatural laws that enforce "multi-culturalism" and "racial equality" that suppress the innate racism of people from displaying publicly.

I'm not trying to divide Indians. Because Indians already are a divided people. Other than caste, they are divided by ethnocultural(Muslims will always support fellow Muslims) and linguistic/regional affiliations.

The only time Indians come together and feel patriotic is when there are aggressors that target and compartmentalize them. F.e Lebanese-Indian riots in Australia, mistreatment of Indian coolies around the world especially in Singapore and Arabia.

The expatriate Indians in Singapore and Singaporean Indians view themselves as distinct ethnicities. Singaporean Tamils look down upon Indian Tamils as "oorrukarans" and unfashionable and backwards. Mocking their behaviour and dressing by thinking too highly of themselves. And Singaporean Tamils are those descendants of coolies who decided that casteism should be forgotten. They mix freely without inhibitions with regards to race and most of them don't even know their caste ancestry.

Outside India, Indian nationalism/patriotism is only held by adult Indians living abroad that have not entirely assimilated into the larger community of their host nation because they are perceived as being fresh-of-the-boat and therefore inferior.

Indians born overseas and seasoned to the ways of the nation they live in, consider Indians from India to be abhorrent and unworthy of affiliation. And anything that is to be associated with India, they will not proudly claim publicly. That is to say the Singaporean Tamil, has not a single ounce of ethnic Indian Tamil pride nor will he dare speak fluent Tamil in front of other races with his head held high. He will only indulge in Indian bashing, to please non-Indians whether via plain crude vulgarity or caustic comedy or both.

The Dravidian Nationalists, don't give the slightest damn about the welfare of Tamils and Indians or genuine passion for the improvement and progression of India as a nation.

Anti-Brahmin rhetoric is designed to push all the blames and misfortunes of the peoples of Tamizhagam upon Brahmins and make the Brahmin the common denominator, the common enemy in order to unify all other Tamil castes under the pretense of a distinct Dravidian racial identity.

The lower castes in Tamil Nadu are practically what the entire Tamil population composes of compared to the meager 3% of Brahmins.

Brahmins had been the most politically dominant. In order to overthrow their territorial aristocracy and replace themselves, they rallied the populous pariahs against Brahmins through hate speeches.

They falsely claim that throughout history the Brahmin is the reason why Tamils have been a divided people and why Tamil Nadu never actually achieved its supposed potential.

They claim those of the lower castes in particular to be "Dravidians" who are the true aboriginals of Tamil Nadu and India who have been stolen of their dignity.

In reality those who have constantly resisted the British rule, and have sacrificed their lives for the greater good of all of India have been mostly from the Higher Castes and in particular, the Brahmins. (Please see Bengal Regiment and Sepoy Mutiny)

They claim that the lower castes should be given reparation for casteism, which according to them, is a solely Brahmin created institution. They try and justify the disparities of academic achievements between pariahs and Brahmins as owing to the historical suppression of lower castes by Brahmins. And using this claim, they justify the shortcomings of the lower castes by demanding allocation of reservations for the lower castes in academic institutions and workplaces. Despite already land reform movements that had stolen much of the wealth of Brahmins.

Caste reservation is the most crippling vice of modern India.

Originally Posted by Niccolo Machiavelli

It is in the interest of the weak to design societies that cripple the strong.

It is far more destructive to the progression of India than the casteism upheld by Brahmins. What Brahmins did was basically segregate themselves from others, including segregation practiced by some Brahmins against other Brahmins.

Caste reservation reinforces caste discrimination. It spurs the Hindu to aspire to be socially backward. It celebrates mediocrity and complacency. It denies meritocracy and grants special privileges to accidents of birth.

The British have always stereotyped anything White (or nearly white) is Intelligent/Good/Smart etc and anything that is black is Idiotic/Bad and /Dull.

British have no relevance to the subject at hand. The British were prompted by the forces that behold, to expand their empire and acquire material wealth and natural resources from the regions they conquered.

The British did not claim relations with all the peoples they conquered, not with the Africans and not with the South East Asians. They simply remarked what they observed themselves and those before them. It is natural to be more empathetic to those that are more closely related to you.

Bottom-line :: do not come to any conclusion/ (for that matter even start) based on the Color of skin.

Nobody said anything about skin colour, skin colour is the physical trait that evolves the fastest and has no definitive bearing on racial characteristics.

Lighter skin does not mean being necessarily superior. Equating racial awareness to mere pigmentation of complexion is probably the greatest fraud of the 21st century.

SI,

The above post is so exhaustive.Thanks.

nachi naga.

Originally Posted by Staunch_Iyengar

Brahmins had been the most politically dominant. In order to overthrow their territorial aristocracy and replace themselves, they rallied the populous pariahs against Brahmins through hate speeches.

.

staunch,

???

what time frame are we discussing here? perhaps the brahmins came to political forefront only since early 20th century,with the strengthening of the fight against the english?

also, do we use words like 'paraya' still, in this context? is there not a better or gentler word?

thank you.

Originally Posted by kunjuppu

staunch,

???

what time frame are we discussing here? perhaps the brahmins came to political forefront only since early 20th century,with the strengthening of the fight against the english?

Well Brahmins have been ministers and advisors in the courts of Tamil Rajas were they not? So technically atleast they were aristocratic since the time of Sangam Illakkiyam.

also, do we use words like 'paraya' still, in this context? is there not a better or gentler word?

thank you.

I use pariah because its an umbrella and short term that refers to shudras/dalits/adivasis collectively. I can't use the term low caste because adivasis and dalits do not belong to the caste system.

Pariah isn't exactly a derogatory word. Its like using the term Pundit. It is not titles that honour men but men that honour titles. Really offensive words are not used by Brahmins in general anyways.

I would appreciate a suggestion of another term, that is short and yet having the same meaning.

Thank you,

Originally Posted by nachi naga

SI,

The above post is so exhaustive.Thanks.

nachi naga.

Your welcome.

Originally Posted by Staunch_Iyengar

What do the British have to do with the authenticity and relevance of genetic differences?

What is this genetic difference that you claim is authentic and relevant? Please be specific so that we can understand what you are saying.

Only political correctness and unnatural laws that enforce "multi-culturalism" and "racial equality" that suppress the innate racism of people from displaying publicly.

Suppressing/overcoming some ugly qualities that people may have is the mark of a decdent human being. Letting loose all your demons without control is natural only for beasts.

...(Muslims will always support fellow Muslims) and linguistic/regional affiliations.

I suppose you have yourself done some anthropological studies or studied ones done by scholars to come to this nugget of a conclusion!! If so, please put up.

....

• Singaporean Tamils look down upon Indian Tamils as "oorrukarans"
• fresh-of-the-boat and therefore inferior.
• Indians born overseas [...] consider Indians from India to be abhorrent
• That is to say the Singaporean Tamil, has not a single ounce of ethnic Indian Tamil pride
• to please non-Indians whether via plain crude vulgarity or caustic comedy or both.

Are you projecting your feelings upon every group of people? All of the above is complete hateful drivel.

The lower castes in Tamil Nadu are practically what the entire Tamil population composes of compared to the meager 3% of Brahmins.

Brahmins had been the most politically dominant. In order to overthrow their territorial aristocracy and replace themselves, they rallied the populous pariahs against Brahmins through hate speeches.

This is getting too vile for me. Recently Suramaniam Swamy got into lot of trouble for using the "P" word.

Caste reservation system worked fine for centuries for Brahmins. Now that it is working the other way around, many of them have become big-time whiners.

Oh well, all I can hope is these kind of hate-mongers don't get any traction.

Nara,

You still don't get it do you.Dr.Subramaniam Swamy is a Brahmin,aligned with Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham.Naturally Dravidian parties will have to be anti Dr.SS.No one is whining here.Tambrams are really hard working lot and forward looking.Just look at this owner of the website,he is just awesome youngster harnessing one and all doing community service with a global reach.Kudos gentlemen.

nachi naga.

Originally Posted by nachi naga

...
You still don't get it do you.

Oh, Nachi, I need to worry only when I get what you get. As long as I don't get what you get, I am in good shape.

Originally Posted by Nara

Oh, Nachi, I need to worry only when I get what you get. As long as I don't get what you get, I am in good shape.

Nara,

Ouch.I'm glad you are in good shape,for a moment i did visualise a 'irutla pudicha kozhakatta' though i luv kozhkattais in any form or shape.(this is meant as a joke and plz treat this line as such).

nachi naga.

Originally Posted by nachi naga

...Ouch.I'm glad you are in good shape

Hi Nachi, glad you have a sense of humor. that little "ouch" says volumes .

I know our life paradigms do not intersect, but I respect anyone who can laugh at himself.