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  1. #41
    G. Soundara Rajan is offline Member
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    'களவும் கற்று மற' - We have been hearing this old saying since our childhood. 'Learn even to steal and just forget' is the easy meaning we get in most of our minds This is used this way particularly when referring to bad habits by youngsters themselves and by intentional/u nintentional petty wrong doers

    The real meaning of this proverb is 'களவும் கத்தும் மற'. 'கத்து' means gambling. 'One should not think about "stealing and 'gambling" in his life is the meaning of this proverb.

    "அவரவர் இச்சையில் எவை எவை உற்றவை அவை தருவித்தருள் பெருமாளே!"
    _ திருவக்கரை திருப்புகழ்
  2. #42
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    Dear Soundara Rajan,

    In the proverb "Kalavum Katru Mara", the term 'kalavu' refers to marrying by eloping with a person of one's choice. The Sanskrit equivalent is 'Gandharva Vivaham".
    In Sangam age, 'Kalavu Vazhi' has been given lot of importance and coverage. (Don't for heaven's sake evaluate its merits with today's values).

    But, your interpretation is also interesting, though I doubt the real meaning of
    'kaththum' as used by you in this context.
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  4. #43
    G. Soundara Rajan is offline Member
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    Shri Panvalan ji:

    Thanks for your views. The lexican meaning for the word 'kaththu' is 'soodhu'. I have gone through an article in Dinamani, sometime back, and I just shared it pls. 'KaLavu vazhi' is Lord Muruga's marriage with VaLLi and 'Karpu vazhi' is the same person's marriage with DeivayAnai. Your interpretation is also quite interesting. Obviouskly, this may not be referring to today's dating culture, as also observed by you,

    //

    'நாயைக் கண்டால் கல்லைக் காணோம் ; கல்லைக் கண்டால் நாயைக் காணோம் '. This is also one expression we often hear.
    'When we find dog, stone is not found and vice versa' is the meaning, we get normally. But this refers to a sculpture of a dog made out of stone. If we know tht this dog is made out of stone, we miss the dog and vice versa. Thirumoolar in his Thirumandhiram quotes as
    'மரத்தில் மறைந்தது மாமத யானை'. This means, if wood is seen, the elephant is missing and vice verca.
    I think this is the inspiration for the poet who wrote a poem in kamal's Dasavatharam movie -

    'கல்லை மட்டும் கண்டால் கடவுள் தெரியாது'. It struct to me that the role of hanging kamal with panchakacham and thirumaN in the attire of a Tamil Brahmin Iyengar adds special meaning to this song and the expression.

    Regards.

    "அவரவர் இச்சையில் எவை எவை உற்றவை அவை தருவித்தருள் பெருமாளே!"
    _ திருவக்கரை திருப்புகழ்
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  6. #44
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    The 4 lines in Thirumoolar's Thirumandiram are:

    "Maraththai maraithadhu maamadha yanai;
    Maraththil maraindhadhu maamadha yanai.

    Paraththai maraithadhu parmudhal bootham;
    Paraththil maraindhadhu parmudhal bootham".

    There is an old film song echoing the same idea.

    "Deivam endral adhu deivam; verum
    silai endral verum silai than.
    Undendral adhu undu;
    Illai endral adhu illai". (Paarthaal Pasi Theerum)

    To quote one related event, a psychologist conducted an experiment with small kids drawn from various backgrounds. They were shown some faint images, circular in shape, on the screen and were asked to identify them.

    Children from poor families told they were coins, kids from rich families said they were
    circles and some other kids said clouds, water drops etc. The conclusion was, depending upon one's need, mind interprets the same object differently. In case of poor children, because they were hungry, coins which can buy some food for them were seen in the form of circular images on the screen.
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  8. #45
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    vikrama is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvvaradan View Post
    As mr durgadasan points out many proverbs have their meaning twisted.
    Proverbs are the essence of the collective experience and wisdom of the society. When we want to express our new experience, sometimes we borrow an old proverb and give it a new meaning. That does not mean that the old is no longer valid. Both represent the experience of the society in two different spheres.

    For example, the two meanings given for 'Kalavum Kathu mara' - one version means that one should be proficient in everything, including theft though it is unethical. One should not practice it but should forget it. The unethicalness is brought out by the 'um' which in Tamil grammar is called 'izhivu sirappu ummai'.
    In the other version, it means one should avoid theft and gambling. There the 'um' is a conjuction like 'and' and is called 'ennummai'
    Last edited by vikrama; 17-10-2009 at 12:59 PM.
    वन्देवेदमातरम्
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  10. #46
    v.lalithakumar is offline Junior Member
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    dears,wishsing you all a happy deepavali.the old sayings/ proverbs have allways some deep rooted inner meaning and always drive home some moral too.(e.g)"PILLAIYARAI PIDIKKA KURANGAI MUDINDHADHU."at the start of a marriage,or any work we pray lord GANESA and on completion with success we pray&thank shri "HANUMAN".if one starts a work by dedicating to "PILLAIYAR".he can have an happy ending of the job.normally this proverb is misused.that is the case of many old sayings. with namaskars."LET KNOWBLE THOUGHTS COME FROM ALL SOURCES/DIMENSIONS." v.lalithakumar
    Last edited by v.lalithakumar; 18-10-2009 at 02:41 AM. Reason: correctons
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  12. #47
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    vikrama is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by v.lalithakumar View Post
    .normally this proverb is misused.that is the case of many old sayings. with namaskars.
    Please don't call it misuse. That is the experience of another group of people. Have we not ourselves experienced it sometimes? -(After all our efforts, something unexpected results.)
    वन्देवेदमातरम्
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  14. #48
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    Before any puja is performed to any deity, it is customary to make a small conical figure out of turmeric paste, to denote 'pillaiyar'. Initial brief puja will be done to this figure of pillaiyar only. It is quite likely that this figure turns out to be asymmetrical and may look as ugly as a monkey. This is the import of the proverb "Pillaiyar pidikka poi, kurangaai mudintha kathai".
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  16. #49
    tvvaradan is offline Member
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    Smile proverb

    Kalavum katru mara After learning kalavu how to forget it? It is not possible and it should not be forgotten. The proverb means love a girl and MARRY her. The kalavu (meeting, talking exchange of views etc before marriage)should culminate in karpu (meaning illaram) One should not go on experimenting by forgetting one and taking up another.
    the other meaning kaththu.. soodhu is alo there.

    paramachryal has written in devatththin kural Start with pillaiyar and conclude with Hanuman.(pillaiyar pidikka...)
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  18. #50
    v.lalithakumar is offline Junior Member
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    dears NAMO NAMAHA.(dear vikrama ji i am very sorry for calling so)let me put it after this manner.this old saying is used in different sense based on the individuals experience.with namaskars."LET KNOWBLE THOUGHTS COME FROM ALL SOURCES/DIMENSION/SIDES." v.lalithakumar.
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