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  1. #1
    Saab is offline Senior Member
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    Neither Dravida nor Arya denote a race.

    Dear fellow Tamil Brahmins,

    * Neither Dravida nor Arya denote any race.

    * Dravida is a Sanskrit word meaning south indicating the the southern peninsula of india.

    * Arya is a Sanskrit word meaning noble.

    * Injecting racism on the basis of colour among the people of Bharath was started by the British. The word 'Dravida' that indicated a territory became indicative of people of 'dark' skin. It was Robert Caldwell who made this switch that brought the vilest consequence in his book 'A Comparative Grammar of the Dravidian or South Indian Family of Languages (1856)'. Stemming from that it was the british and german Indologists who gave a new theory about a fair skinned aryan race invading India and vanquishing dark skinned race called Dravidians.

    * Modern genetics has proved that there is no genetic difference in the markers between to so called 'Aryans' and 'Dravidians' as can be found between Nordic and Slavic races. Minor differences and similiarities exist among Brahmins, Naidus, Chettiars, Gounders, Mudaliars etc... but not a valid difference to differentiate the 'races' of Aryans and Dravidians.

    * India and especially S.India is very rich in literature. Of the Dravidian languages, Tamil has the greatest geographical extension and the richest and most ancient literature, which is paralleled in India only by that of Sanskrit. The Tamil Literature widely refers and illustrates History. In these literature THERE IS NOT A SINGLE MENTION of aryan-dravidian divide or invasion or any kind of struggle. Our Vedas and Puranas also do not mention of any invasion of any people from beyond Bharatham to constitute the so called Aryans as was claimed by the Aryan Invasion Theory.

    * The Aryan Invasion Theory became the tool for divide and rule by the British. That was taken advantage of by people who wanted to divide India on the basis of language, territory, color and caste of the people. The secularist rulers of India who are apologists and successors to the British colonialists never fought the the fissiparous tendencies but perpetuated the myth of racism of Aryans and Dravidians and embarked on dividing the country on the basis of language and territory and the latest demand is that of Telengana. It all started with the British dividing Bengal in the beginning of the 20th century and and patriots under the Great Bala Gangadhar Tilak opposed it. He was arrested and sent to Andaman by the British where he died. Even though he was a Maharashtrian, it was Bengalis who mourned his death by performing the obsequeis in every home in Bengal! Such was the love for patriotism those days. The secularists in their zest and zeal to divide the country have killed this spirit.

    * Tamil Brahmins are the victims of this conspiracy of divisive politics of the secularists of India. Every Tamil Brahmin should learn this fact and educate their fellow Tamilians irrespective of the castes and creed. There is no vimochanam to this country otherwise.

    Saab
  2. #2
    KRS
    KRS is offline Super Moderator
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    Swamy Vivekananda Ji has stated that there are no Aryans or Dravidians but only Indians. I believe him.

    But I do not understand these words:

    "The secularist rulers of India who are apologists and successors to the British colonialists never fought the the fissiparous tendencies but perpetuated the myth of racism of Aryans and Dravidians and embarked on dividing the country on the basis of language and territory and the latest demand is that of Telengana."

    Who are these secularists? Nehru did not want the states to be divided among linguistic lines. He only gave in reluctantly. So, who demanded such a division? "Secularists?" If so, let us name names.

    Telengana seperation grew out of the same mold as Tamil nation as well as other seperatist movements. How is 'secularism' the cause of such divisions?

    One should back up one's statements if one is ready to accuse a whole principle as a cause for such seperate states based on language!

    Pranams,
    KRS
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  4. #3
    Kamakshi is offline Member
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    Sri KRS,

    Nehru did not want the states to be divided among linguistic lines. He only gave in reluctantly. So, who demanded such a division?
    Why don't you tell us who these people who are demanding the division of the country on parochial basis? Who encourages them? What law enables them to practice this atrocity?

    "Madhrasis" were hounded by Sivasena, Brahmins by the DK and the DMK and now Raj Thakrey hounds north Indians. There are many more like this.
    Do Californians say 'No' to Texans or New Yorkers? Can a political party agitate in real secular countries and get away with it without being banned and punished? The IRA in the UK and Basque separatists in Spain were banned in the respective countries. Nehru and his system of governance could have done this instead of being 'reluctant'.

    Nehru and his ilks represent this 'unique' and undefined secularism of India that has given rise to the fissiparous tendencies.

    In Tamilnadu the LTTE outfits that killed a Prime Minister of this country is being supported and encouraged even though on paper such things are illegal. Since I am not allowed to name names I can say that the ruling party in Tamilnadu is courted by the President of the Congress Party who is a catholic and a foreign born woman. The world knows that the LTTE assasinated her husband who was the prime minister of this country. As a Hindu woman I am asking you: Which Hindu woman would court the support of the killers of her husband even if heaven be the reward? Which Hindu woman will go and shake hands with the murderer who killed her father?

    We are being told that this is a humane act and is glorified by the vested secular press. Do we need this kind of culture?

    When will this apism end?

    This is the Indian secularism that is unethical and unHindu that we oppose. This country can well do away with it and follow practices that are ethical and humane that were the dhaarmic followed by our ancesstors.

    I agree with the contention that the Indian secularists court the minority vote bank, divide the Hindus on caste basis and perpetuate the division, systematically loot Hindu temples in the name of administration, unnecessarily interfere in their religious practices and constantly question and put them down on whimsical concepts of their 'secular' principles while letting the muslims practice polygamy and the Christians to denigrate Hinduism and convert the Hindus. We are sick and tired of this secularism. Down with it!
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  6. #4
    KRS
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    Sowbhagyavathi Kamakshi Ji,

    My response is in blue, below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamakshi View Post
    Sri KRS,

    Why don't you tell us who these people who are demanding the division of the country on parochial basis? Who encourages them? What law enables them to practice this atrocity?

    Kamakshi Ji, I asked first! The people who encourage these divisions are the same people who wanted the division of the country on parochial basis from the begining, who are encouraged by local politicians with vested interests. No connection to Secularism here.

    "Madhrasis" were hounded by Sivasena, Brahmins by the DK and the DMK and now Raj Thakrey hounds north Indians. There are many more like this.
    Do Californians say 'No' to Texans or New Yorkers? Can a political party agitate in real secular countries and get away with it without being banned and punished? The IRA in the UK and Basque separatists in Spain were banned in the respective countries. Nehru and his system of governance could have done this instead of being 'reluctant'.

    Nehru's administration has been long gone. There have been other administrations in the interim. If such a law of banishment exists why was it not implemented? If it does not exist, why has it not been formulated? While Congress solely and in coalition has governed the most of these years, there were other governments from the opposition which got the chance to govern. So to put all these parochialisms under a long bygone administration is not logical.

    Nehru and his ilks represent this 'unique' and undefined secularism of India that has given rise to the fissiparous tendencies.

    Okay, but please tell me what 'unique' and 'undefined' secularism of Nehru and his ilk has given rise to the 'fissiparous' tendencies? Do you know that Sri Vallabhai Patel was the Chairman of the Minorities Sub-Committee of the Constituent Assembly. The liberal provisions which our Constitution contains for the protection of linguistic and cultural rights of the minorities are his ideas. He was the one who selected Dr. Ambedkar to head up the drawing of the Constitution.

    In Tamilnadu the LTTE outfits that killed a Prime Minister of this country is being supported and encouraged even though on paper such things are illegal. Since I am not allowed to name names I can say that the ruling party in Tamilnadu is courted by the President of the Congress Party who is a catholic and a foreign born woman. The world knows that the LTTE assasinated her husband who was the prime minister of this country. As a Hindu woman I am asking you: Which Hindu woman would court the support of the killers of her husband even if heaven be the reward? Which Hindu woman will go and shake hands with the murderer who killed her father?

    Kamakshi Ji, meeting with one's husband's or one's father's killer are personal matters. Why should we get riled up about this? They are entitled to believe whatever they believe, as long as that does not affect what the State does. How does such a meeting affect the State justice and functioning? Regarding LTTE activities in TN, I don't understand the politics of it. But, again, whoever gives comfort to terrorists must be tried.

    We are being told that this is a humane act and is glorified by the vested secular press. Do we need this kind of culture?

    If we do not want this 'culture' it is easy enough to throw the rascals out of office. How come, a large portion of the majority community still keep on voting to power such 'alien cultured' parties?

    When will this apism end?

    When the majority unites and find a common middle ground. It will not come on the basis of extreme political thought.

    This is the Indian secularism that is unethical and unHindu that we oppose. This country can well do away with it and follow practices that are ethical and humane that were the dhaarmic followed by our ancesstors.

    Okay, fine. But India is a democracy. A large portion of Hindus are moderate and they do not want to go back to yesterday's national life. What was 'dharmic' yesterday is not seen as dharmic today (Constitution has done away with Varnas for example). So, unless a modern dharmic standard is agreed by all, I do not personally think that anything will change.

    I agree with the contention that the Indian secularists court the minority vote bank, divide the Hindus on caste basis and perpetuate the division, systematically loot Hindu temples in the name of administration, unnecessarily interfere in their religious practices and constantly question and put them down on whimsical concepts of their 'secular' principles while letting the muslims practice polygamy and the Christians to denigrate Hinduism and convert the Hindus. We are sick and tired of this secularism. Down with it!

    Again, there are a lot of misstatements here. Secularism is firmly against a government to interfere in religious matters of any religion. Anything that violates this is not secularism.

    There is a voluntary secular personal civic code for all communities to subscribe to. Do you know that only a fraction of the Hindu community has embraced it, instead opting for Hindu personal law? Same for Muslims. So, when that code is accepted universally by all sections of the society, then we will see true secularism.

    Again, no one can foribly convert anyone in to any other religion in India. There is a criminal law against such an activity. If they can not find a soul to 'harvest' they will close up shop and leave.
    Pranams,
    KRS
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  8. #5
    Saab is offline Senior Member
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    The virulent anti-Brahmin movement in Tamilnadu was set off by E.V.R.

    A gentleman by name M.Venkatesh wrote a a remarkable book in Tamil on Periyar titled ‘E.V.Ramaswamy Naickerin Marupakkam’.

    Here are some excerpts:

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  10. #6
    Saab is offline Senior Member
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    Dear Happyhindu,

    There is truth in what we focus yet what we focus is not the whole truth. EVR's philosophy of hatred is alive and well in so many forms. There are atleast two reasons for the same.

    One is that there is scope for advancing this because there exist a lot of bigotry by not observing Dharma. Dharma is easily flouted by one and all.

    Secondly they have encouragement from the State and by the power that be who are adharmic (in my parlance 'secularism and secularists'). If I have to borrow a Christian depiction, they are 'satanic' by their enticing, divide and rule, hoodwinking and plain spread of misinformation.

    So if you decide NOT to oppose EVRism because you feel nobody is interested (and people like me are making a mountain out of a molehill) that is your choice.

    If you on the contrary think that this menace have to be squarely faced and the root cause is to be eliminated for the good of the posterity then you are welcome to join me.

    Regards,
    Last edited by Saab; 07-05-2008 at 06:05 PM. Reason: spelling
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  12. #7
    happyhindu's Avatar
    happyhindu is offline Veteran Achievements:
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    Dear Saab,

    I never said I am NOT opposed to EVRism. Nobody i know seems to agree with it. Everyone i know has gone abt opposing EVRism in their own ways.

    But I have met many tamilians who are staunch suporters of EVR. Having spoken to them, i feel this issue is best addressed as a social issue not as a political one. EVR seems to have been the 'break point' for them since they already had the undercurrents that their culture was copied and stolen by invaders. This sentiment was likely not shared by other dravidian linguistic groups and EVR did not find support from them.
    Last edited by happyhindu; 30-06-2008 at 08:40 PM.
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  14. #8
    Saab is offline Senior Member
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    Dear Happyhindu,

    You are part of us and so please do not think we would ever think of you as different. You are our brother! In a family all brothers are not same because each have their own unique mind yet in times of need the bond among them will assert. That will be the case with you!

    Having said that, let me tell you that in varna system no one is superior or inferior. Because of the unique nature of the Brahmins with their active intellect they do not band together easily. Most of them assert their soverignty! This is a disadvantage and knowing this the varna system exhorts other varnas to take care of the Brahmins. People did take care of the Brahmins and held them in high esteem. Take all the ancient Tamil literatures and everyone of them pay homage to Brahmins. When I chant Thevaaram I sometimes feel it was written in praise of Brahmins! Even recently that is about 600 years ago Arunagirinaathar in his famous Thiruppugazh speaks very high of the Brahmins. He says the Brahmins educate the entire community of the greatness of Siva for example "ஓமத்தீ வழுவார் கூர் சிவ லோகத்தே தரு மங்கை பாலா". (ஓமத்தீ வழுவார் refers to the Brahmins who raise the Homaagni with their oblations). All these 'internal evidence' show that people lived amiably among themselves and held the Brahmins in high esteem. There had never been a war of attrition among the Hindus as could be found in other religions. There has never been a movement or campaign against the Brahmins until the beneficieries of the British colonial oppressors inherited the throne. Their constitution enables special privileges to the Muslims and Christians and offer division and destruction to the Hindus.

    The caste system was introduced by the British and is followed and furthered by the secular government even though their apologists might claim otherwise. The caste system is atleast 250 years old which by itself is old and yet recent past. So this blurs the divide between the varna system followed before and the caste system that is followed now. The fact that the name Brahmin is the same in caste as in varna makes it difficult to differentiate especially knowing that the Brahmins have the continuity while others have a disconnect and dissipation. (By the way the varna system is not dead. It is weak and feeble. Just as good heath and bad health follow each other, the strength and weakness are cyclical).

    Do you know that there is no such thing as untouchable in the varna system? The earliest introduction is traced to the Buddhists as they are avaidic (non-vedic). The water's purity was held so sacred by the Hindus that the ancient Brahmins always consecrated the water before they drank. "Om aapaha, jyothi rasaha amritham Brahma" where aapaha denotes water. Jyothi rasaha means that the water is the essence of fire. Yes, it is true that water comes from fire! The rest needs no explanation.

    The water is given to the Devas in the 'argyam'. The water is given to the forefathers as an oblation for their return. In this world all the waters are held sacred as 'theertha' by all Hindus and their offshoots such as Sikhs, Jains and Buddists. There is vedic prohibition on Brahmins from drinking unconsecrated water. This was not a problem in those old days when the Brahmins lived secluded. Today the two tumbler system is followed not by the Brahmins but by non-Brahmins.

    The Brahmins did not compete with other varnas in any sphere until the British arrived on the scene and broke the varnasrama dharma. This broken dharma is causing the sense of apprehension among the non-Brahmins who are now finding that the Brahmins are invading into their domain. That is where the mistrust (iyarai namba vendaam!) comes from. When Varnasrama Dharma regains its vitality which it truly will (of course to the great consternation of the secularists!)and this sense of alienation among Hindus will vanish.

    I wud love to support you provided am told ways in which you propose to address these situations. If the idea is to sponsor a social NGO to address these issues and gather support from the public first by clearing misconceptions, am all for it. But if the idea is to turn this into another political issue straightway, am not for it.
    The Brahmins by their nature are inclined in better pursuit than artha (wealth). When the situation is conducive such as freedom from persecution and oppression and guaranteed support and protection then the situation of conflict among Hindus will cease. That situation is nothing but the restoration of Dharma which of course can come only by the defeat of the secularist hoards who are the curse of Bharat. Short of that the conflict will keep raising in newer forms just as in Uthapuram where the conflict is between two non-Brahmin communities. Now that the Brahmins have ceased to tell what is Dharma to them the secularists and Christians and Muslims are trying to fill the gap that raises more conflict.
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  16. #9
    KRS
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    Every culture in the world that does not keep up with the advancement of civilization is doomed to extinction. We need to look at what it IS rather than what it WAS.

    We can have endless debates about who caused the Varna Dharma to disintegrate. We can point fingers at the Moguls, English, Christians, Muslims and the 'Secularists' for it to have degenerated to the present Jathi system.

    But, unfortunately, Varna was a SOCIAL concept that fit in to the years of yesterday's way of life. The four varnas neatly fit in to a society ruled by Kings, kept prosperous by the merchants, served by the manual labors of the least intellectually gifted and of course guided by an intellectual class which neither wanted power nor wealth.

    But what do we have today? As Swamy Vivekananda Ji lamented, 'Where are the Kshatriyas?'

    Irrespective of who was responsible, why is there a fifth Varna?

    More importantly, why there is no broad support for the Brahmins from the other three varnas today?

    Just assigning blame on others for this problem that our religion and society has to bear is not correct. Why is there a large population of Hindus today who support the 'Secularists?'

    It is all because, our religion has a section of folks who can not and would not accept the fact that a 'way of life' must adapt to changing conditions. After all, a religion is for the benefit of the people who adhere. Not the other way around. If a new dharma that is fitting to address the modern day life, where people of all Jathis and religions work side by side, not found, then our religion will lose its relevance in the modern world.

    This is unfortunately the reality.

    Pranams,
    KRS
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  18. #10
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    Elders seem to approach solutions by provoking others into thinking and look more like (??) putting forward the solution of going for changes / reviving things from within their brahmanical traditions to keep up with the changing times (??). Their experience in having understood life from diff dimensions reflects in their words.

    Youngsters too seem to have understood several roads to this multidimensional reality we live in but prefer to hold on to some roads only, as it appears to them as the best paths.

    No wrongs here..which of the two rights will prevail only time will tell.....
    Last edited by happyhindu; 30-06-2008 at 03:23 PM.
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