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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by C RAVI View Post
    For God's sake, try to understand that, a righteous person with sense of shame, ethics, morality, discipline and spirituality giving maximum hits to Sunny Leones website or any other hardcore porn sites, indulging in wildest sexual games with a legitimate partner with mutual consent etc can very well claim himself/herself as good human with Belief in God!!!

    .
    LOL! Ha Ha Ha..cant stop laughing.

    So you see Ravi..all of us humans are seeking fun..so best is to admit that we are fun seekers and leave God out of the equation and not try to justify that one can love hard core porn,whip,handcuffs,blindfold and all and yet be spiritual..that way being Charvakian is better at least he does not practice hypocrisy!LOL LOL LOL
  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by renuka View Post
    LOL! Ha Ha Ha..cant stop laughing.

    So you see Ravi..all of us humans are seeking fun..so best is to admit that we are fun seekers and leave God out of the equation and not try to justify that one can love hard core porn,whip,handcuffs,blindfold and all and yet be spiritual..that way being Charvakian is better at least he does not practice hypocrisy!LOL LOL LOL
    Oh MY God!!!! How can a grown up be so ignorant??!!??

    Sexual desires are one among many desires of human living. Anything that legitimately keeps human happy and satisfied does not contradict God's creation and does not make one an Atheist. A male and female Indulging in anything for pleasure without violating the social norms and without over ruling others likes and dislikes (i.e. with mutual consent) are very much normal, just full and non-criticizing. It is once ignorance to call such like minded people as hypocrites because of their belief & liking towards God/Spirituality.

    One has to be whole heartedly dedicated to God/Spirituality while in prayers in temple or at home and whole heartedly indulge in other pleasure games to any extent with one's loving spouse, with mutual consent (as how they mutually share). There is no Hypocrisy in that.

    What I find hypocrisy is that, some strange and funny people start chanting Mantras (either loudly or within themselves) when they are indulging in physical intimacy with their spouse!! And, they say that, that is because, they are into spiritual mode 24/7 such that they some what are similar to Meera, Avvaiyaar and other male and female Sages, in direct communication with the Spiritual World, carrying purest heart and mind, that is compassionate towards Humanity and carrying Love for the Spouse as well..LOL!!

    Last edited by C RAVI; 02-12-2013 at 04:16 PM.
    Cheers.........


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    ----------------------------------
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by C RAVI View Post
    Oh MY God!!!! How can a grown up be so ignorant??!!??

    Sexual desires are one among many desires of human living. Anything that legitimately keeps human happy and satisfied does not contradict God's creation and does not make one an Atheist. A male and female Indulging in anything for pleasure without violating the social norms and without over ruling others likes and dislikes (i.e. with mutual consent) are very much normal, just full and non-criticizing. It is once ignorance to call such like minded people as hypocrites because of their belief & liking towards God/Spirituality.

    One has to be whole heartedly dedicated to God/Spirituality while in prayers in temple or at home and whole heartedly indulge in other pleasure games to any extent with one's loving spouse, with mutual consent (as how they mutually share). There is no Hypocrisy in that.

    What I find hypocrisy is that, some strange and funny people start chanting Mantras (either loudly or within themselves) when they are indulging in physical intimacy with their spouse!! And, they say that, that is because, they are into spiritual mode 24/7 such that they some what are similar to Meera, Avvaiyaar and other male and female Sages, in direct communication with the Spiritual World, carrying purest heart and mind, that is compassionate towards Humanity and carrying Love for the Spouse as well..LOL!!


    I dont think sexual desire is needed for life..its not essential service..cos there are many bachelors who are still virgins..so you see humans can survive without sex.

    BTW what is so wrong chanting Mantras in one's mind while gunning it??

    That show the ability of the human mind to dissociate him or herself from one act and at the same time enjoy another act and gain pleasure from both when both acts are fused...mental and physical.

    That requires skill yaar..well let me get simple..why drag in Mantra Tantra etc..

    Its like how a person who is in action with his/her spouse but thinking of his/her illicit lover at the same time.

    All these requires skill that the virginal mind can never understand!LOL

    BTW kindly do not degrade Meera and Avvaiyar..just stick to our normal human level.
    Last edited by renuka; 02-12-2013 at 04:34 PM.
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  6. #34
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    I am genuinely happy that the subject of "Charvakas" and their philosophy has aroused so much enthusiasm with >30 responses within 18 hours or so. This proves that the aastikas love to hate the charvakas!

    Almost all of the Charvakas' texts and other references have been destroyed and so, as Shri Nara stated, we have only to go by the poorvapaksha arguments and some details found in the sarvadarsana samgraha, to understand about the Charvakas or Lokayatikas. The founder of this philosophy was one Brihaspati. What that philosophy claimed is being followed by most peoples of the world, but with a perfunctory acknowledgement of god and other things connected with their theistic religion/s which have come to have a great say in societies.

    If one goes to the other end of philosophy or vedanta, one finds more or less the same teachings being proclaimed as steps to attain Moksha or liberation, or heavenly bliss and comforts in life after death. The emphasis of vedanta is also on each one striving after one's own moksha and advices like:

    का ते कान्ता कस्ते पुत्रः संसारोऽयमतीव विचित्रः |
    कस्य त्वं कः कुत आयातः तत्वं चिन्तय तदिह भ्रातः ||

    (kā te kāntā kaste putraḥ saṃsāro:'yamatīva vicitraḥ
    kasya tvaṃ kaḥ kuta āyātaḥ tatvaṃ cintaya tadiha bhrātaḥ)

    resonate the Charvaaka view point only, in essence, but want the people to strive for a heaven after death by mortgaging the present life to religion and its priesthood, so to say.

    Naturally, the Charvaka pov did appeal to many and that was a threat which the vedic religion went about systematically exterminating so that religion as an economic enterprise would not be threatened with extinction.

    As one poster said, we have to appreciate the utter honesty of the Charvakas. In the end the Moksha concept of vedanta also tells about the destruction of the "aham", whereas the Charvakas said that there is no "aham" and what you have is just one life, so live it truthfully and enjoy it. Religionists carefully removed the "truthfully" part and have been slandering the Charvakas.

    In my view an honest and sincere Charvaka to day will be much more venerable than a religionist who is generally hypocritical and so can't be trusted even by his/her god!!
    श्रेयो भूयात् सकलजनानाम् ।
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  8. #35
    sarang is offline Veteran
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    There is no objection (legal, procedural or cultural) to one, with family, friends and willing bhakts, to find a charvaka guru, and convert and follow the essentials of this darshana. If so they wish, they can form a gated community and practice what they preach and respect. A tradition lives only by practice, not just by dissection.
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  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkrishna100 View Post
    There is lot of misconception about Charvakas and one group says that they are just atheistic people who believe in 'Hedonism' and others say they are "purely rational people " . The article posted by me gives a more balanced view of the same with the author concluding with a jovial end hinting that the Charvakas liked to enjoy life and they did not like to deny themselves of the pleasures of life ( which are considered sins by a spiritual minded person ) and they were not shy of accepting the same openly . I have no complaints about what they feel .But since material on Charvaka Philosophy and their way of life is scarce I feel there will always be controversies when Charvakas are discussed .
    The emphasis in the quoted text above is mine. I do agree a balanced view and approach is good, it is more tolerant, less judgmental, etc. But, a balanced view can sometimes do grave injustice also. Examples abound, from King Solomon and the riddle of real mother, balanced view between nectar and poison can be poison, balanced view between truth and falsity can be falsity.

    Unfortunately, it is this kind of balanced view the quoted article presents because of the last para. I agree with Renuka, the article you posted was good except for the last para which gives credence to the caricatured view of Charvakas promoted by its opponents bent on showing it in the most negative light as possible. Even from the bits and pieces of information that is available about Charvakas from secondary sources it is clear that these caricatures are false.

    Also, we can look at the materialists of ancient Greece for a glimpse of what Charvakas would have been like. It was not debauchery they advocated, it is what I would call enlightened hedonism that they wanted. The Epicureans of ancient Greece lived a simple life, they thought true friendship is the source of lasting happiness and self satisfaction. They did not go for excessive indulgences because they recognized that would lead to disproportionately greater levels of unhappiness in the long run compared to the fleeting happiness of the moment. This is what a Charvaka would have been, living life to the fullest extent in a way that would bring lasting happiness.

    For those interested, here is an article that gives a truly balanced view of Charvaka free of any caricatures:

    https://www.academia.edu/4179676/A_c...f_the_Carvakas
    Last edited by Nara; 03-12-2013 at 12:12 AM.
    கல்வியறிவும், சுயமரியாதை எண்ணமும், பகுத்தறிவுத் தன்மையுமே தாழ்ந்து கிடக்கும் மக்களை உயர்த்தும் .....
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  12. #37
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    Epicurus, the Charvaka of the Greeks, bought a small piece of land and built a modest house called the Garden. He inscribed his living moto on a tablet and put it at the entrance to the Garden. for all comers to see. The inscription says:

    “Stranger, here you will do well to tarry; here our highest good is pleasure. The caretaker of that abode, a kindly host, will be ready for you; he will welcome you with bread, and serve you water also in abundance, with these words: ‘Have you not been well entertained? This garden does not whet your appetite; but quenches it."

    When I showed this to my wife she embroidered it, framed it, and hung it at the entrance of our little abode. I would like to think this is the Charvaka creed, friendship, hospitality, pleasure and happiness ....

    another quote from Epicurus:

    "Death is nothing to us, when we exist, death is not yet present, and when death is present, then we do not exist."
    கல்வியறிவும், சுயமரியாதை எண்ணமும், பகுத்தறிவுத் தன்மையுமே தாழ்ந்து கிடக்கும் மக்களை உயர்த்தும் .....
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  14. #38
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    hi
    i learned many western philosophical theories very similar to charvakas....many materialist are very similar to charvakas..
    asato maa sadh gamayaa, tamaso maa jyotir
    gamayaa, mrityor maa amritham gamayaaa..
    om shanti, om shanti, om shanti...upanishad
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  16. #39
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    In nature species, philosophies, ideas die their natural death due to natural selection.
    If a large number of people believed in an idea it will survive, otherwise it will die.
    Polygamy was practiced and accepted in many parts of the world, it is slowly dying.
    According to Wiki:

    Natural selection is the gradual process by which biological traits become either more or less common in a population as a function of the effect of inherited traits on the differential reproductive success of organisms interacting with their environment.
    John Maynard Keynes is famous for saying: “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?” Perhaps he is famous for this saying because obvious common sense is not the normal behaviour of our species. Once bad ideas take root, it takes more than just new facts to displace them. Atul Gawande recently wrote very well in the New Yorker on how many good ideas spread slowly.


    A corollary is that many bad ideas die slowly too. In India, we have enough home grown bad ideas like unsociability or not doing any business transactions for a month of shrad to name a few.


    Saurabh Chandra is a Bangalore based tech entrepreneur
    Homeopathy and Marxism: Why bad ideas don't die - Analysis - DNA

    Some bad ideas die but are brought back to life purely to please certain individuals, or a set group.
    Last edited by prasad1; 03-12-2013 at 02:31 AM.
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