Tamil Brahmins
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26
  1. #1
    vgane is offline Veteran
    Points: 22,636, Level: 16
    Level completed: 3%, Points required for next Level: 3,014
    Overall activity: 99.6%
    Achievements:
    VeteranCreated Blog entryTagger First ClassOverdrive10000 Experience Points
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    NCR
    Posts
    4,002
    Points
    22,636
    Level
    16
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Treat them as men, not Gods

    A fair assessment by T.K.Arun...Tho' there are factual errors such as Tat Tvam Asi is not propounded by Sri Sankara but is from Chandogya Upanishad

    Treat them as men, not God
    TK Arun
    TuesdaySeptember 03, 2013, 04:28 AM
    Millions of Indiansare poor, illiterate and malnourished. They are prone to disease and their lifeexpectancy is low. If a healthy mind requires a healthy body, millions ofIndians are incapable of having healthy minds. Millions of Indians are alsofollowers of godmen, whose ranks include people like Asaram.

    Spiritual guides,saints and others given to epiphany are common to all cultures around theworld, their frequency coming down with the advance of modernity andrationality. Industrial and post-industrial life has seen a sudden decline inthe number of miracles and of holy men associated with them.

    India remainslargely pre-industrial, even today. In 2011, for the first time, the share ofthe working population engaged in agriculture dipped below 50%. Even now, morethan two-thirds of all Indians live in rural areas. Even those who live intowns carry with them the baggage they brought from the village, beliefs andideas for the most part.

    Just last week, at awayside dhaba in Uttar Pradesh, a man shot dead an 11-year-old who refused towash a tumbler for him — so what if he did not work at the dhaba and was thereonly to watch television, he was a Dalit and how could he defy a direct orderfrom his social superior? (Note that television and guns, modern inventions inthemselves, did not quite modernise the interaction between the shooter and thetelevision viewer.)

    In such a country,it would be surprising if godmen like Asaram did not proliferate. How shouldthe state deal with errant godmen? Exactly as it would deal with errant men.There should be no compromise on this. This is more than just maintainingequality before the law. Refusing to make any special allowances for godmen ispart of nation-building in this country where the constitutional ideal ofliberal democracy is not an actualised reality but a goal, an ideal, theimperative to attain which should inform every action of the state.

    No Place for Godmen

    Is such disdain forgodmen part of so-called modernists’ disdain for Hinduism? Would peopleadvocating such down-to-earth treatment for Hindu holy men still stick to terrafirma when it comes to holy men of minority religions? Isn’t this all part of alarger anti-Hindu conspiracy? This version ofoffence-is-thebest-form-of-defence has already been launched on behalf ofAsaram, with the BJP chipping in with vigour. It belittles Hinduism as a beliefsystem incompatible with democracy and equality before the law.

    In reality, Hinduismprovides scope for Asarams to exist only because it affords endless flexibilityin how people find their spiritual equilibrium. A rigorous articulation ofHindutva’s core concept of advaita(non-duality) would leave no place for gods and goddesses, leave alone for thegarden variety of godmen with base instincts.

    Tattvamasi (that thou art) was Sankara’sfamous reply to someone who asked him to explain the concept of Atman. Atmanis not just the ultimate reality but also the only reality. Everything livingand lifeless is some or the other manifestation of Atman.

    Things that seemdifferent are the same in their essence. Their difference is illusion.Inability to see the underlying unity of all things is ignorance, delusion. Thepoint of enlightenment is to realise this.

    Hinduism is perhapsthe only religion to posit the non-duality of what are commonly perceived asthe creator and the created. Such negation of distinction between the creatorand the created, and among the myriad bits of the created, opens up radicalpossibilities.

    Kerala’s socialreformer Sri Narayana Guru drew on advaita to assert the illegitimacy andinvalidity of caste. When all men, apart from all other things, aremanifestations of the selfsame Atman, how can some men be inferior, even untouchable?

    Radical Hinduism

    Apart from beingincompatible with the caste system, advaita has other potential disadvantages. Those who appreciate theunderlying unity of all things also appreciate that all ethics and morality aresocial constructs and not divine ordination. Just look at what a high concentrationof amoral people has done to global finance to see how dangerous it could befor the world to be full of enlightened ones who are above morality.

    Privilege Progress

    So while Hinduismcounts enlightened knowledge as one route to salvation, it quite practicallyrules it out for the majority, who are left to contend with worldly delusionthrough piety, devotion, diligent discharge of duty and so on. It is thisfreewheeling mix of means that offers the folds and creases out of which godmenoperate. The enlightened state should see them for what they are: at best liketutors for those who were remiss in the classroom, at worst exploiting thebackwardness that alone makes them possible.

    The job of the stateis not to take backwardness for granted. To give Asarams privileged treatmentis to collude in backwardness, to collude in the shooting of the boy in UttarPradesh. India deserves better and Indians now know this.

  2. #2
    sangom's Avatar
    sangom is offline Veteran
    Points: 19,469, Level: 14
    Level completed: 94%, Points required for next Level: 181
    Overall activity: 57.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsCreated Blog entryTagger First Class10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    6,138
    Points
    19,469
    Level
    14
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    Shri Gane,

    Traditional Hindu religion had many, many mendicants or sannyasis of many different systems (as we see at the time of the Kumbh Melas) but this religion did not have any 'Godman' for a long, long time since Krishna. But Krishna was not a sannyasi nor is he described as having had his own Ashram, followers, etc.

    <edited. Please note there are many people who are believers and devotees of Sai Baba here and outside the forum. So, please keep their sentiments and beliefs in mind while posting something that can be grossly mis-interpreted. - praveen>

    Asaram also tried his hand at this industry but he possibly wagered a little too much and without precautions. And he will pay for his "business follies". But godmen, godwomen etc., will thrive in this country of the so-called Sanatana Dharma which some of our learned members say must "evolve" according to person, time and surroundings and therefore, we will have repeats of Asaram "ācandratāram" (as long as the Moon and the stars exist). !
    Last edited by praveen; 04-09-2013 at 02:22 PM.
    श्रेयो भूयात् सकलजनानाम् ।
  3. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
    If you are having a problem with a particular thread or user, please use the "REPORT POST" button beside the offending post to inform us or raise a complaint.
  4. #3
    prasad1's Avatar
    prasad1 is online now Veteran
    Points: 34,358, Level: 19
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 1,592
    Overall activity: 99.7%
    Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsCreated Blog entryOverdriveVeteran
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    6,725
    Points
    34,358
    Level
    19
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    Self-claimed godman Asaram rode a tonga for a living for at least two years in Ajmer before reinventing himself as a spiritual man. As young Asumal, he carted pilgrims on a pony cart from the railway station to Ajmer Sharif Dargah. Others of his ilk still remember him as Asumal, the tongawala with cushion seats - most of them had wooden boards.
    When godman Asaram was tongawala Asumal of Ajmer - The Times of India
  5. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
    If you are having a problem with a particular thread or user, please use the "REPORT POST" button beside the offending post to inform us or raise a complaint.
  6. #4
    Ckmum is offline Newbie
    Points: 186, Level: 2
    Level completed: 12%, Points required for next Level: 264
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    31 days registered100 Experience Points
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Mumbai
    Posts
    16
    Points
    186
    Level
    2
    Downloads
    6
    Uploads
    0
    Disclaimer: No intention to hurt sentiments but only voicing my opinions

    I consider godmen as human beings like others with exception of certain gifted "skills". While these skills vary from person to person, the underlying is same: Most of them perform things that garners crowd.

    Puttaparthi Sai Baba was mildly different: His spiritual things apart - his trust did some wonderful work like providing water supply to parched villages, etc. I am no devotee of his but I admire what he created. Whether it was his powerful connections, his spiritual power, or whatever, he / his trusts got certain things done. Very few trusts of other godmen does anything free of cost OR truly socially impacting work. So I won't comment more on him.

    But people like Asaram - he isn't convicted yet - but being accused of such grave crime itself speaks a lot. Such people must be tried such that his emergence and his way of functioning must be interrogated and published. This will enlighten people and prevent foolish following.

    And as my elders always tell me - spiritualism and materialism never go hand in hand.
  7. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
    If you are having a problem with a particular thread or user, please use the "REPORT POST" button beside the offending post to inform us or raise a complaint.
  8. #5
    prasad1's Avatar
    prasad1 is online now Veteran
    Points: 34,358, Level: 19
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 1,592
    Overall activity: 99.7%
    Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsCreated Blog entryOverdriveVeteran
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    6,725
    Points
    34,358
    Level
    19
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    Asaram Bapu regularly met women alone at night in his 'dhyan ki kutiya' (meditation hut) to "heal" them, Shiva, the personal attendant of the religious guru has told the police, Rajasthan additional advocate general Anand Purohit informed the sessions and district magistrate (rural) on Wednesday.

    Details provided by Shiva, whom the police have been interrogating since Sunday, strengthen the case against Asaram, Purohit said. The guru has been accused of sexually assaulting the minor daughter of a disciple inside his Jodhpur ashram on the night of August 15.

    Investigators said they have substantial evidence to conclude that Asaram, Shiva and Shilpi, the hostel warden, "conspired" to get the 16-year-old victim to Jodhpur from Chhindwara where she studied. Call detail records show Shilpi had been in constant touch with both Asaram and the girl's family, and that the contact grew very frequent in the week before the girl was allegedly assaulted, they said.
  9. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
    If you are having a problem with a particular thread or user, please use the "REPORT POST" button beside the offending post to inform us or raise a complaint.
  10. #6
    prasad1's Avatar
    prasad1 is online now Veteran
    Points: 34,358, Level: 19
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 1,592
    Overall activity: 99.7%
    Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsCreated Blog entryOverdriveVeteran
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    6,725
    Points
    34,358
    Level
    19
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    More trouble for Asaram, this time over 'illegal' ashram
    Pradeep Sharma, Hindustan Times Bharatpur, September 05, 2013

    Troubles mounted for arrested self-styled godman Asaram on Thursday, this time over alleged illegal construction of his ashram in Rajasthan's Bharatpur district.


    The district collector, Neeraj K Pawan, ordered an inquiry into complaints that the ashram in Bharatpur city, 178 km east of capital Jaipur, was built on agricultural land without the mandatory land-use conversion.


    "We have started legal proceedings and if it is proved in court that the construction is illegal, the ashram can be declared government land and seized," said Pawan.


    The fresh trouble for Asaram emerged even as he spent his fourth day in jail following his arrest on charges of sexually assaulting a 16-year-old girl.


    The self-styled godman's ashram on Circular Road is built on around four bighas (1.6 acres). It has a sermon hall, a parikrama marg, rooms and a separate residence for him.

    Local businessman and director of Bharatpur Grih Nirman Society Uddhav Das Arora has alleged the ashram encroached on his plot. "He (Arora) showed us the map and prima facie, the plot and road have been encroached on," Pawan said. The ashram authorities dismissed allegations of encroachment. Shiva Bhai, a supporter of Asaram, said the plot was given to the ashram by late Congress MLA RP Sharma seven or eight years ago. "Before the paperwork could be completed, he passed away," said Shiva.
  11. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
    If you are having a problem with a particular thread or user, please use the "REPORT POST" button beside the offending post to inform us or raise a complaint.
  12. #7
    vgane is offline Veteran
    Points: 22,636, Level: 16
    Level completed: 3%, Points required for next Level: 3,014
    Overall activity: 99.6%
    Achievements:
    VeteranCreated Blog entryTagger First ClassOverdrive10000 Experience Points
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    NCR
    Posts
    4,002
    Points
    22,636
    Level
    16
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0
    Is sex not a taboo for Hindu spirituality? How can a person who is a preacher attempt to do what he has supposed to have done

    Times of India...6 Sep 2013
    Unlike Christianity, sex isn't taboo in Hindu spirituality

    Asaram is being pilloried by everybody, from parliamentarians to journalists, for alleged sexual assault on a teenager and is in jail now. Some of the horrified public responses at his alleged act can also be attributed to the general notion that dissociates sex from spirituality. This notion considers everybody on the spiritual path as 'wedded' to celibacy. But is this perception correct?

    A spiritual person, such orthodoxy goes, must not have a carnal side, a belief that stems from the sanyasi tradition where it is popularly believed that a seeker after God renounces all desires. This possibly explains why many Hindi newspapers and TV channels are aghast at the preacher's "fall from grace". In the English language media, the same horror is related: that men of cloth, like the Christian missionaries, must be celibate and breaking the vows of chastity would call for de-frocking of the erring priest.

    In fact, the Boston Globe in the United States had run a series of reports on sex abuse in the Catholic church. Several such reports have appeared also in TOI. Since 2002, much of the US media has been critical of the approach of the bishops while dealing with sex abuse by priests. The net has a number of reports like this and this. This is because in Catholic church priests are bound by religion to be celibates. The instances of aggravated sexual transgressions by priests are worse as they involve under-age children, often of the same sex.

    However, according to many Indian traditions, the path of spirituality does not preclude sex. In fact, drawing from the divine Krishna tradition, there is a spirit of joy and celebration around the idea of sex and loving union. It follows logically that sex forms a vital part of self-realization. Osho Rajneesh, a modern master, said forced celibacy was not just wrong, it was damaging to the soul of man.

    It was against man's natural instincts. Celibacy as a vow had to be voluntary, and under the guidance of a capable preceptor. Otherwise, there was every possibility of the act of self-mortification destroying the initiate. All Hindu gods had families while several Indian traditions emphasized the sense of the sensual.

    However, other streams of Indian spiritualism also grew, drawing from more severe notions of renunciation. One of the best that exists in Sanatani philosophy on the subject of the human body is Patanjali's statement, 'Swa-ang jugupsa, parai asansargah.' It means that with increasing spiritual insights, with greater realization, with the mind's constant attachment with truth, there develops apathy for the physical body, and it loses its physical affiliation with others. This is considered a high state of spiritual being, and that is what has made celibacy the plinth of sanyas as many understand it.

    Yet, ancient Hindu rishis were known to have families and children. Even modern spiritualists like Swami Ramakrisnha Paramhansa, Lahiri Mahasaya and Sri Yukteswar Giri, the master of Paramahansa Yogananda, were all householders.

    If Asaram has broken the law with the alleged sexual assault on a minor then of course the book must be thrown at him.

    However, he cannot be held guilty, as a householder, of having sexual relationships or desire just because he is a spiritual preacher.
  13. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
    If you are having a problem with a particular thread or user, please use the "REPORT POST" button beside the offending post to inform us or raise a complaint.
  14. #8
    prasad1's Avatar
    prasad1 is online now Veteran
    Points: 34,358, Level: 19
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 1,592
    Overall activity: 99.7%
    Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsCreated Blog entryOverdriveVeteran
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    6,725
    Points
    34,358
    Level
    19
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    However, he cannot be held guilty, as a householder, of having sexual relationships or desire just because he is a spiritual preacher.
    Sir,
    That is not the case at all. The criminality arises from multiple alleged acts of the godman.
    1. The Girl is minor.
    2. The girl claimed Rape.
    3. Non-cooperation with the Police
    4. Trying to alter the evidence
    5. Colluding with others to hide the evidence.
    6. Threatening the child.
    ETC,

    Asaram is a married man with a son, so no body said he should not have sex or had in the past. So to compare with a celibate Catholic priest is completely wrong.
  15. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
    If you are having a problem with a particular thread or user, please use the "REPORT POST" button beside the offending post to inform us or raise a complaint.
  16. #9
    auh's Avatar
    auh
    auh is offline Senior Member
    Points: 2,804, Level: 6
    Level completed: 24%, Points required for next Level: 846
    Overall activity: 24.0%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsTagger Second Class1 year registered
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    819
    Points
    2,804
    Level
    6
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sangom View Post
    S

    <edited. Please note there are many people who are believers and devotees of Sai Baba here and outside the forum. So, please keep their sentiments and beliefs in mind while posting something that can be grossly mis-interpreted. - praveen>
    Hi Praveen, was wondering over this censure...

    How is one godman different from another? The strength of following should not deter from discussing about a godman. I mean, when we allow discussions that question the existence of God itself, then I feel, this censure is not required. Then it would necessarily follow that we have to ban discussions on anybody who calls himself a godman, whether it be x, y or z.

    However, you set the rules here, and it shall be so; just food for your thoughts. If you want such topics to be clarified through PM, it is also ok.

    Regards,
    Last edited by auh; 07-09-2013 at 03:03 PM.
  17. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
    If you are having a problem with a particular thread or user, please use the "REPORT POST" button beside the offending post to inform us or raise a complaint.
  18. #10
    sravna's Avatar
    sravna is offline Veteran
    Points: 15,392, Level: 13
    Level completed: 38%, Points required for next Level: 1,558
    Overall activity: 78.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsOverdriveThree Friends
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Chennai
    Posts
    3,035
    Points
    15,392
    Level
    13
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    I think winning over sexual desire is the ultimate test for a spiritual person and I also think that in the present world there would be virtually none to claim this level of spirituality. The point is there is so much temptation and pressures that lapses such as what Asaram and other spiritual leaders may commit in spite of being highly spiritually evolved. One needs perfection or very close to perfection to remain blotless today when one is famous.
    Regards,
    Srinivasan Vaidyaraman
  19. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
    If you are having a problem with a particular thread or user, please use the "REPORT POST" button beside the offending post to inform us or raise a complaint.
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •