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    Ilavarasan & Divya

    Just hours ago, the body of Ilavarasan, a young man, on the threshold of life, was found by the railway tracks. Investigation as to the cause of death still pending – the primary concern being if this is murder. All in all, a sad episode in our culture.

    I think it would be wrong to ignore this incident or dismiss it as something alien to us. Not true.

    I think, many of us here, have had someone, or heard of someone, marrying out of caste. I do not understand, how when we pray in the same temple, we cannot accept them as husband and wife.

    Whatever it may be, my heart goes out to Divya now, for the agony she must be feeling. Frankly I did not believe she forsook her husband, as a change of mind. Intense pressure, guilt and above all separation, can make one pliable. It happened to a friend of mine – who was literally brainwashed in 3 hours, to forego his white girlfriend, and on the threat of mother’s suicide, married the Iyer girl they picked for him.

    Such is life.

    May Ilavarasan’s soul rest in peace. May Divya find peace.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kunjuppu View Post
    Just hours ago, the body of Ilavarasan, a young man, on the threshold of life, was found by the railway tracks. Investigation as to the cause of death still pending – the primary concern being if this is murder. All in all, a sad episode in our culture.

    I think it would be wrong to ignore this incident or dismiss it as something alien to us. Not true.

    I think, many of us here, have had someone, or heard of someone, marrying out of caste. I do not understand, how when we pray in the same temple, we cannot accept them as husband and wife.

    Whatever it may be, my heart goes out to Divya now, for the agony she must be feeling. Frankly I did not believe she forsook her husband, as a change of mind. Intense pressure, guilt and above all separation, can make one pliable. It happened to a friend of mine – who was literally brainwashed in 3 hours, to forego his white girlfriend, and on the threat of mother’s suicide, married the Iyer girl they picked for him.

    Such is life.

    May Ilavarasan’s soul rest in peace. May Divya find peace.
    The caste virus is such a strong infection in the indian psyche that sometimes I feel we ought to really admit that the people who instituted the caste system in the Bharatavarsha should have been superhuman in their knowledge of human psychology. Or, may be those were aliens who could implant a caste-gene in our genetic make-up.

    One tabra youth fell in love with a North Indian college mate, but the tabra boy's unassumingly "simple" mother was so efficient that she could successfully persuade him to leave that girl and marry a pure tabra girl. And the reason? — "I cannot pet and converse with my grandchild since they will speak Hindi and I don't know that language." The funny part is - this mother lives in the North for several years now and has no language problem dealing with neighbours, vendors, shop-keepers etc!!
    श्रेयो भूयात् सकलजनानाम् ।
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    I suspect a foul play both in the death of Divya's father as well as in the death of Illavarasan . Basically the Casteist parties and their followers are trying to prove a point that a Dalit Boy can never be happily married to a BC Girl and this is what awaits those families who try to involve in these sort of marriages . Except for the Dalit parties and few other non political parties no major Political Party in the state of TN seems to involve deeply in this issue fearing a loss of votes from the various Casteist groups who have all now rallied together under one casteist Umbrella in the name of opposing "Kadal Nadagam" as well as their efforts to maintain the so called their "Caste Purity" .
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  6. #4
    kunjuppu is offline Veteran
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    gnani in today's deccan chronicle

    copied from his posting in facebook...


    Written for Deccan chronicle on their request this evening (for publishing in tomorrow morning paper ) :

    Dear Divya

    My condolences to you on losing one more beloved person from your life. This certainly is a tragedy that should never happen to anyone anywhere. Losing two valuable and important lives in in your life at the altar of casteism. Losing a loving father because you chose to marry out of caste. Losing the husband you chose, first by separation and later by death in your desperation to atleast save your mother.

    We could have saved both the lives. We failed to do so. Here I mean we –not the entire people of Tamilnadu, but the so called intellectual sections of our state – writers, social activists, human right activists, journalists et al. We were all the time analyzing your life, your situation, your being a pawn in the bigger game of casteism, but we failed to identify why you really needed to succeed in your goal.

    We should have organized a huge public meeting in Chennai to celebrate your inter caste marriage with several eminent writers and leaders who belive in a casteless society felicitating you. That would have given you a moral support. We the intellectuals should have counselled you into moving away from Tamilnadu for a while settling down in life and returning to respective families later by which time they slowly reconcile to the situation. We have no mechanism to do so. But had we done that to you and several other couples marrying out of caste, that would have shown the casteists that they are really not a majority. But we the silent majority chose to be silent leaving you to the wolves.

    You were surrounded only by those who wanted to uphold the superiority of caste hierarchy. You were emotionally blackmailed to worry more about the possibility of losing one more parent in this distressing situation.

    But Divya, I salute you for not ever changing your position about your choice of a husband despite these pressures. You never said even before the court of law that you were cheated, duped, kidnapped and brainwashed into this love drama and marriage as alleged by the casteists. You repeatedly said you needed both Ilavarasan and your mother and that desire was becoming an impossibility.

    Our inaction has cost you one more valuable life. I understand the emptiness this can cause to you. We let you down. I apologise for that for whatever that apology is worth. But I have only one request to you now.

    Don’t let yourself down. All the struggles you went through so far were in search of love and efforts to protect the love and affection you found. WE have snatched them away from you. You now only have yourself and your mother. You are young. Don’t allow the casteists to bully you and your family any longer. Education is the only boat with which you can cross this ocean of sorrow.

    Five years from now I hope to see you as an assertive independent economicallty stronger Divya whom your mother would look forward to and listen and not dictate terms. Time I hope will heal your scars. You may or may not choose to marry then. But if ever you choose to marry again, I have one humble request. Where we failed, I want you to succeed. Please marry again from outside your caste. Only then Ilavarasan and Nagarajan would smile in their graves. Their 'bali' would not have gone in vain.

    With apologies from the civil society for our impotence,

    yours in distress

    gnani Sankaran
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    asato maa sadh gamayaa, tamaso maa jyotir
    gamayaa, mrityor maa amritham gamayaaa..
    om shanti, om shanti, om shanti...upanishad
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    hi
    i feel like this....when a personal life becoms more politicised.....then the problem of caste comes....there are many IC/IR marriages

    happening....some are very happy too..some are very successful too....but when too much publicity makes too much problem...

    ??????? ????????? ????????? ??????? ???? ??????? ???????: ???????????? - Dinamani - Tamil Daily News
    asato maa sadh gamayaa, tamaso maa jyotir
    gamayaa, mrityor maa amritham gamayaaa..
    om shanti, om shanti, om shanti...upanishad
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    Quote Originally Posted by kunjuppu View Post
    I do not understand, how when we pray in the same temple, we cannot accept them as husband and wife.
    Dearb Kunjs,

    I would like to re word your sentence as :


    I do not understand, how when we shop for vegetables in the same market, we cannot accept them as husband and wife.


    You see vegetable market and a temple is no different cos people go there to feed their desires to sustain their well being.

    Who ever thinks for the sake of God in a temple??

    I have a feeling if we do an Electronic Voice Phenomenon recording in a temple we can surely
    hear God's message on His Voice Mail..." I am currently not in this premise..kindly try again after 1 Kalpa"
    Last edited by renuka; 05-07-2013 at 08:37 AM.
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  14. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kunjuppu View Post
    copied from his posting in facebook...


    Written for Deccan chronicle on their request this evening (for publishing in tomorrow morning paper ) :

    Dear Divya

    My condolences to you on losing one more beloved person from your life. This certainly is a tragedy that should never happen to anyone anywhere. Losing two valuable and important lives in in your life at the altar of casteism. Losing a loving father because you chose to marry out of caste. Losing the husband you chose, first by separation and later by death in your desperation to atleast save your mother.

    We could have saved both the lives. We failed to do so. Here I mean we –not the entire people of Tamilnadu, but the so called intellectual sections of our state – writers, social activists, human right activists, journalists et al. We were all the time analyzing your life, your situation, your being a pawn in the bigger game of casteism, but we failed to identify why you really needed to succeed in your goal.

    We should have organized a huge public meeting in Chennai to celebrate your inter caste marriage with several eminent writers and leaders who belive in a casteless society felicitating you. That would have given you a moral support. We the intellectuals should have counselled you into moving away from Tamilnadu for a while settling down in life and returning to respective families later by which time they slowly reconcile to the situation. We have no mechanism to do so. But had we done that to you and several other couples marrying out of caste, that would have shown the casteists that they are really not a majority. But we the silent majority chose to be silent leaving you to the wolves.

    You were surrounded only by those who wanted to uphold the superiority of caste hierarchy. You were emotionally blackmailed to worry more about the possibility of losing one more parent in this distressing situation.

    But Divya, I salute you for not ever changing your position about your choice of a husband despite these pressures. You never said even before the court of law that you were cheated, duped, kidnapped and brainwashed into this love drama and marriage as alleged by the casteists. You repeatedly said you needed both Ilavarasan and your mother and that desire was becoming an impossibility.

    Our inaction has cost you one more valuable life. I understand the emptiness this can cause to you. We let you down. I apologise for that for whatever that apology is worth. But I have only one request to you now.

    Don’t let yourself down. All the struggles you went through so far were in search of love and efforts to protect the love and affection you found. WE have snatched them away from you. You now only have yourself and your mother. You are young. Don’t allow the casteists to bully you and your family any longer. Education is the only boat with which you can cross this ocean of sorrow.

    Five years from now I hope to see you as an assertive independent economicallty stronger Divya whom your mother would look forward to and listen and not dictate terms. Time I hope will heal your scars. You may or may not choose to marry then. But if ever you choose to marry again, I have one humble request. Where we failed, I want you to succeed. Please marry again from outside your caste. Only then Ilavarasan and Nagarajan would smile in their graves. Their 'bali' would not have gone in vain.

    With apologies from the civil society for our impotence,

    yours in distress

    gnani Sankaran
    Today's newspaper (05-07-2013) reports that the girl told the court that it has become impossible for her to join him and in that despair, he committed suicide. What is the truth?
    श्रेयो भूयात् सकलजनानाम् ।
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  16. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by kunjuppu View Post
    . Please marry again from outside your caste.

    Dear Kunjs,

    I don't get this point which you took from a Facebook post.

    A person opting for a love marriage should marry a person based on love and his/her caste should not matter.

    So there is also a likelihood the person we love might be the same caste as us.

    I don't get it why some people advise others to deliberately marry out of the caste just to show that they do not believe in caste.

    If one does not believe in caste that means everyone is equal..so anyone of any caste can be considered for marriage including one's own caste.
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  18. #10
    kunjuppu is offline Veteran
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    Quote Originally Posted by renuka View Post
    Dear Kunjs,

    I don't get this point which you took from a Facebook post.

    A person opting for a love marriage should marry a person based on love and his/her caste should not matter.

    So there is also a likelihood the person we love might be the same caste as us.

    I don't get it why some people advise others to deliberately marry out of the caste just to show that they do not believe in caste.

    If one does not believe in caste that means everyone is equal..so anyone of any caste can be considered for marriage including one's own caste.
    renus,

    this is current day tamil nadu. let me give you my take on this.

    the girl divya belongs to the vanniar community, who have now 'discovered' themselves, to tbe the warriors of the three tamil kingdoms, and hence 'rulers' of the land. ilavarasan is a dalit. both agree that they are 100% descendents of ancient tamils. unfortunately both communities are among the bottom most rung of the economic and social ladder, with the vanniars marginally above the dalits.

    the dalits, pockets of them, have made progress, thanks to affirmative actions, general sympathetic attitude of the society, and their realization that the key to prosperity is education and hard work and organization. in a village, the dalits provided the labour class, hired on will, and discarded by the land owning classes, whereas the vanniars, were marginally better. not much.

    so there is a jealousy brewing from the vanniars, particularly, when vanniar girls appear to prefer non vanniar boys (zzzounds familar ?).

    so all it takes in a small village, is to rouse the 'gouravam' of the girl's father, who not able to take the hulabaloo created by the relations, committed suicide. the periyarists and the marxists, always on the side of the dalits, took up the opposing cause. and all it needed was someone to light up a charged fuse, with the vanniars did, on their annual meeting at mahabalipuram on chitra pournami day.

    not that intercaste marriages dont happen. in fact lots do. but there is a strict hierarchy. if one takes a daughter from a 'superior' caste - as in this case - there is no issue (for the dalits but issue for the vanniars). we have heard complaints here, and elsewhere, that when tambram girls marry NB, they are welcomed, because it gives a 'respect' to the boys' family. the girl's family should be 'ashamed' because of loss of face. it is a reality phenomenon in tamil nadu. so usually when this happens, the girls' family moves away

    so, your post based on logic, decency, common sense, and above all on the premises, that love between two people, is their own affair, is simply not true, afaik, in india.

    in india, if a hindu wants to marry a muslim or xtian, he has to go through a formal government application and process. i think in malaysia too, if anyone wants to marry a malay muslim, they should convert to islam. in india, atleast there is no insistence on conversion to hinduism. JJ tried to bring a bill to ban money induced religious conversion, but had to back out, in the face of onslaught from the muslims, xtians, leftists, periyarists and civil libertarians.

    hope this somewhat explains. pls let me know if you need a further purvey of my views on this

    ps..the mainstream DMK ADMK are mum on this...because all the mid level castes ie nadars, naickers, gounders, thevars, vellalars, are lined up with the vanniars against the dalits, if not publicly, atleast in spirit (and funding)...vote bank politics. these middle castes are the real ruling power in today's tamil nadu, and while paying lip service to periyar and abolition of caste, they do it only so far as keeping the brahmins out of any share of tamil nadu socio politics.

    in turn, they (middle castes) screw the dalits whenever possible, and it is only thanks to Central Government and strong enforcement, that dalits have been able to atleast make the headway they have made. the dalits still have a long way to go.

    the upliftment of the dalits has an economic consequence. it is very difficult to find labour to till the land and feed the rural factories, owned exclusively by the middle castes. also, it deprives them of someone to kick around - everyone apparently likes to have someone below to boss around. the dalit youths dont take insults by keeping mum any more. they have learned to hit back

    tambrams, while largely observers, have to side with the dalits, and speak out against caste hierarchies. especially the sankara mutts, but i doubt that would happen. i think. the casteism is often termed as 'brahminism' and it is a thin line between accusing someone of brahminism and accusing a brahmin. these are emotional times in tamil nadu.
    Last edited by kunjuppu; 05-07-2013 at 07:51 PM.
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