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  1. #21
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    Excerpts from A Religious History of Ancient India - Volume Two By Prof. S. R. Goyal

    "In this atmosphere many Hindus of higher orders known as Smartas, evolved a kind of worship described as
    Panchayatana puja in which the principal deities of the five approved
    Brahmanical Hindu cults were the objects of veneration. The principal object of
    worship in it was usually in the form of an aniconic emblem which symbolised all
    the five cult deities. Sometimes five symbols of five major gods were placed on
    a round open metal dish called Panchayatana, the symbol of the deity preferred
    by the worshipper being in the centre. The mode of placing in the centre the
    symbol of the preferred deity in the Panchayatana arrangement indicated the cult
    affiliation of the Smarta worshipper. The Panchayatana puja of the Smartas is
    also illustrated in many extant early and late medieval temples of India, in
    which the central shrine housing the principal deity is surrounded by four
    smaller shrines on the four corners of the quardrangle containing the figures of
    the four other deities."


    To be continued in next post.
    யாதும் ஊரே யாவரும் கேளிர்.

    நச்சினார்க்கினியன்.
  2. #22
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    A digression into details of Panchyathana Puja.

    Five aniconic symbols of five major gods were placed on a round open metal dish called Panchayatana.

    The aniconic (symbolic or suggestive rather than literally representational : not made or designed as a likeness) symbols are

    Ganesha - Red Sonabhadra
    Surya - Crystal
    Vishnu - Saligrama
    Shiva - Bana Linga
    Devi - Swarna Mukhi

    You will notice that this Puja does not include Subrahmanya. This was included by the Tamil Brahmins later. This is done only by them and is not part of the general Smarta worship.

    Koumaram or the worship of Subrahmanya does not seem to have existed anywhere in India except Tamil Nadu.

    Even these aniconic symbols are taken from a Tamil Brahmin worship. They may be different elsewhere in India. Vishnu and Saligrama go together everywhere.
    யாதும் ஊரே யாவரும் கேளிர்.

    நச்சினார்க்கினியன்.
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  4. #23
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    An image of Panchyathana Puja
    Attached Images Attached Images
    யாதும் ஊரே யாவரும் கேளிர்.

    நச்சினார்க்கினியன்.
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  6. #24
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    Excerpts from A Religious History of Ancient India - Volume Two By Prof. S. R. Goyal

    "Such a religious syncretistic tendency is very interestingly illustrated by a
    large number of early medieval sculptures also. A Panchayatana Sivalinga,
    originally found in Bihar and now in the collection of the Indian Museum, shows
    the four cult deities, Ganapati, Vishnu, Parvati and Surya on the four sides of
    the central Saiva emblem, all of which taken together symbolise the five
    Brahmanical Hindu cults. The Hari-Hara murti (or Haryardha aspect of Siva to a
    Saiva) emphasises the reconciliation between the two major cults of Vaishnavism
    and Saivism. The composite icons combining in them the features of Surya and
    Siva and Martanda and Bhairava are comparatively fewer. The Markandeya Purana
    invokes Surya in this manner "Brahma's, Siva's and Vishnu's bodies are the same
    as the body of the resplendent Sun whose real nature is three-fold indeed, may
    he be gracious". The Ardhanarisvara murtis of Siva also symbolise the
    syncretistic ideology, for they apparently emphasise the union of the principal
    cult deities of Saivism and Saktism. Siva-Lokewara, Surya-Lokesvara and
    Hari-Hara-Surya-Buddha icons show syncretism between Brahmanical Hinduism and
    Buddhism. Many other such sculptures are known. These may also be called another
    mode of symbolising the Panchayatana worship of the Smartas."


    To be continued in next post


    யாதும் ஊரே யாவரும் கேளிர்.

    நச்சினார்க்கினியன்.
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  8. #25
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    Excerpts from A Religious History of Ancient India - Volume Two By Prof. S. R. Goyal


    "The spirit of syncretism expressed itself in many other ways. For example, for
    some time Surya formed with Brahma, Vishnu and Siva, a kind of quadrumvirate, as
    in many ceremonial gifts these four go together. The Matsya Purana lays down
    that Brahma Vishnu, Siva and Surya are identical or non-different (abheda). The
    Kurma Purana states that it originally consisted of four Samhitas - Brahmi,
    Bhagavati, Sauri and Vaishnavi. The Skanda Purana is divided into six Samhitas
    namely of Sanatkumara and Suta, Vaishnavi, Brahmi, Sankari and Sauri. These
    facts suggest that these gods were associated together in some places and times.
    As Brahma was gradually ousted from the field, a trinity of the other three was
    left and attempt was indeed made to establish a triad of Surya, Siva and Vishnu,
    with prominence given to the first. However the grouping of gods was always
    liable to alteration. The Matsya Purana lays down that vows are to be made to
    Siva, Surya and Vishnu. Surya is found combined with the other three major
    gods-with Vishnu in Surya-Narayana figures (Vishnu being himself an Aditya),
    with Siva in Martanda-Bhairava figures, and with Brahma in the images of a
    slightly later date. The Naradiya Purana ascribes to the second part of the
    Vamana Purana four Samhitas namely Mahesvari, Bhagavati, Sauri and Ganesvari,
    thus belittling the importance of Brahma and extolling that of Ganesa. The
    Garuda Purana accords the highest position to Vishnu but prescribes modes of
    worship of Siva, Durga, Ganesa and Surya also in the full Smarta manner. The
    Bhavishya Purana mentions different groupings in different parts and, though
    conceding the importance of Surya in some parts, reserves pre-eminence for the
    old triad-Brahma, Vishnu and Siva."
    யாதும் ஊரே யாவரும் கேளிர்.

    நச்சினார்க்கினியன்.
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  10. #26
    natkaushik is offline Member
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    In such discussions, there is no single correct view. Sri Nachinarkiniyan has come out with his view and reasoning.All the power to him. I am a tamil Iyer,a (sroutha) smartha-follower of sruthi & smrithi, I pray as per shanamatha practices (gaanapathyam,koumaaram,souryam shaaktham,saivam and vaishnavam), my vedantham is uttara mimamsam of sankaracharya.my Guru vandana is "sadaasiva samaarambaam, sankaracharya madyamaan, asmad aacharaya paryanthaam vande Guru paramparaam".
    PS: a majority of Bengalis are shaakthas (Kali maa), a few are baishnos (followers of gouranga mahaprabhu aka Krishna Chaitanya, composer of "Geetha Govindam".Bagwan Ramakrishna is all( Hindu,Muslim Christian )religions rolled into one.
  11. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
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  12. #27
    Pam
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbs View Post
    hi
    i myself belong to Nama iyers sect...we wear namam like vaishnavas ..but belong to vadama iyer sect....even though we

    are Nama smarthas....we worship/ kula deivam vishnu....we never use vibhuti.....we belong to srirangam matam.....

    not any smartha matam....we use srirangam panchangam tooo...so we called Nama iyers...mainly three agraharams

    belong to Nama iyers....2 in tamilnadu 1 in palakkad ,kerala.....i think pallipuram/thirunellayi in kerala...singanallur in

    coimbatore...one agraharam in tanjore....there is proverb in tamil.....வடமன் முத்தி வைஷ்ணவன் ....this applicable to us...
    Hi!

    I found your post very interesting. My father-in-law and his father wear thiruman inspite of being vadama iyer. My father - in - law wears only the srichurnam whereas his father used to wear a full vadakalai thiruman. But, their kula deivam is Vaidyanathaswami of Vaideeswaran kovil. So, I wonder whether they too could belong to the Nama iyer sect? Do Nama iyers have Shivan as Kula deivam? We also do not know who their original acharyan was; My parents-in-law used to go to Mahaperiyava for Darshan, but, I know people from all sects, across the board have gone to Mahaperiyava, so, that doesn't tell us anything.
    My mother-in-law does not know any information about that so, I look forward to anybody throwing any more light on this issue here in the forum.

    THanks!

    Padhma
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam View Post
    Hi!

    I found your post very interesting. My father-in-law and his father wear thiruman inspite of being vadama iyer. My father - in - law wears only the srichurnam whereas his father used to wear a full vadakalai thiruman. But, their kula deivam is Vaidyanathaswami of Vaideeswaran kovil. So, I wonder whether they too could belong to the Nama iyer sect? Do Nama iyers have Shivan as Kula deivam? We also do not know who their original acharyan was; My parents-in-law used to go to Mahaperiyava for Darshan, but, I know people from all sects, across the board have gone to Mahaperiyava, so, that doesn't tell us anything.
    My mother-in-law does not know any information about that so, I look forward to anybody throwing any more light on this issue here in the forum.

    THanks!

    Padhma
    I knew a smartha iyer, way back in the 1960's, who used to apply only a simple "Gopi" (the U-shaped nAmam) but he was not a vaishnava. He told me that in their poorveeka agrahAram all people used to apply only this U-nAmam either with sandal paste or the white thirumaN. He did not know the reason.

    One possibility is that when the vaishnava-non vaishnava conflict was at its height, the non-vaishnavas in some disadvantaged locations adopted this so that apparently they could pass off as Vaishnavas and be free from trouble. How the womenfolk tided over this crisis is not known!
    श्रेयो भूयात् सकलजनानाम् ।
  15. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
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  16. #29
    sarang is offline Veteran
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    As this is in the realm of a possibility in one's mind without a shroud of evidence, can be considered as titillating or mischievous. There was migration between vaishnavas and saivas due to conviction and respect for the acharyas, but definitely not 'to avoid trouble'. Pressure to convert by terror or force is a muslim and christian phenomenon; there is ample evidence for this. Even today, hindus are forced to convert in pakistan and bangladesh, if one believes reports published in secular magazines like 'the hindu'.

    The women folk has to wear the sari differently. Because the considered opinion of some is, the women had no independence, were doormats and had to do whatever was commanded by the husband or inlaws or sons.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangom View Post
    One possibility is that when the vaishnava-non vaishnava conflict was at its height, the non-vaishnavas in some disadvantaged locations adopted this so that apparently they could pass off as Vaishnavas and be free from trouble. How the womenfolk tided over this crisis is not known!
    Last edited by sarang; 17-04-2013 at 02:04 PM.
  17. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
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  18. #30
    Nacchinarkiniyan's Avatar
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    Some members seem to have missed the entire basics of Smarta religion.

    You can be a 100% Vaishnavite and still be a Smarta. To be a Smarta one has to only accept the other Gods/Goddesses. That does not mean that you have give up any of the Vaishnavite culture or belief.

    In this regard, I had posted about how in Bengal every Hindu starts any ritual with reacting Vishnu, Vishnu, Vishnu. And also we had discussed how Vishnu means the all pervading one.

    A Vaishnavite is one who worships Vishnu. Who said that a Vaishnavite is one who decries all other Gods/Goddesses as Demi Gods? Who said that a Vaishnavite should believe that only Vishnu can give you salvation? This is the interpretation of some Acharyas.

    Again some members are talking about Saivite/Vaishnavite. By no stretch of imagination can a Smartha be termed as Saiva.

    A person who recites all the names of Vishnu in his sandhyavandanam, mutters Harihiom all the time and submits all the results to Narayana as
    Kayena vacha manasendriyairva
    Buddhyatmana va prakrite swabhavath
    Karoomi yadyad sakalam parasmai
    Narayanayeti samarpayami

    Whatever I do with my mind, body, speech or with other senses of my body, Or with my intellect or with my innate natural tendencies I offer everything to Narayana.

    You call this person who ends all his rituals and prayers with this sloka a Saivite?

    Sangom had remarked that there has been a number of posts attacking Samrtas recently. This thread is the reason for it.

    Again the names of Vishnu in Smarta sandyavandana, smartas saying harihi om, and reciting Kayenavacha ... are all facts. Not my opinion. The posting of many members also confirms how Smartas have accepted people who practice Vaishnavite culture.
    யாதும் ஊரே யாவரும் கேளிர்.

    நச்சினார்க்கினியன்.
  19. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
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